Blown Motor - Advice Greatly Appreciated

[scaryharry19]

Late March of this year I picked up my dream M3 that I believed would be a good purchase @ $27k. Previous owner ensured the rod bearing and throttle actuators had been replaced and upgraded. Previous owner seemed very knowledgeable and I felt good about it.

2008 (jan build) e92 m3
70k miles
Space Grey/Palladium Silver
VF620 supercharger (installed at around 50k mi)
BPM Tuning on motor, trans, steering
BE rod bearings
ARP bolts
positive Blackstone labs oil analysis report from 68k mi
19"in Forgestar SDC wheels
squared 275/30 continental extreme contact
quad resonated Topspeed performance x-pipe, no muffler, no cats

I owned the car for about 2k miles when the engine blew. I was traveling into town @ about 65 mph and out of nowhere BOOM. (it now sits covered in storage at 72k mi)

So let's rewind.. I drove 10 hrs to pick the car up and make a road trip to see some old college buddies on my trip back. I made it from AL to IA and checked the car out at the dealer where said previous owner had traded it in for a corvette. It was in alright condition but I still considered it a good value given the piece of mind on the motor's condition. They also assure me that the CEL is due to the catless exhaust (this is also what the previous owner told me, he said he had a Carly and that it was just a code that is common with catless setups) (Man, I will never show up to buy a BMW without my Carly every again). Short story shorter, I buy it.

Now is a good time to state, in hindsight I believe there are A LOT of mistakes I made in purchasing and in owning this M3 but at this point, it is what it is.

Problem #1: ON MY WAY TO KC, MO FROM THE DEALER. About 30 minutes outside of KCMO after a 3ish hour car ride in my new-to-me 558 whp beast, I did a pull entering an interstate when the car fell flat on it's face. Limp mode. Everything wreaked of fuel and the car would sputter out when i would try to restart. A good Samaritan came buy and we had a look see as we talked on the phone with the previous owner who tried to help us diagnose the issue. We determined that since I was below a quarter tank and IA has shit gas, by my standard at least, I may just need to run a cleaner through and refill.. 20 minutes of sitting and the car restarted and ran in limp mode to a gas station where i did a fuel treatment and refilled with ethanol free. Car began to run fine.

I ran nothing but ethanol free 91 or 93 for the next and last 2k miles that this motor existed.

Fast forward and the car did great for the weekend in KC and I headed back to AL, doing another fuel treatment on the way (probably should not have done this idk, who knows).. When Problem #2: LIMP MODE AS SOON AS I PULL OFF THE INTERSTATE, right when I made it back into Huntsville (home). I mean as soon as I cancelled cruise control, it went into limp mode, after driving for 10 hrs. I was like really??

After doing some research i determined that given it being an early model 2008, i needed to replace the fuel pump modulator and all my problems would go away. Did that, things seemed better, but I couldnt get over how RICH the exhaust was smelling. I mean it was like burn your lungs rich. Everyone attributed it to being catless but i thought no way, something is wrong.

I take it to a BMW specialty shop (shop #1) and he changes O2's and a coil pack and says i should be good. I take off and the CEL comes back on almost immediately.

Over the course of the coming few weeks the car is in that shop (shop #1) where the guy cant figure out what's going on.

Until, PROBLEM #3: HE SEES THAT SPARKPLUG #1 IS LITERALLY CLOSED SHUT. yep, AND that was due to the fact the the air intake/inlet boot on the supercharger was not on all the way, so the supercharger sucked up some shit and flung it into the 1st piston. i presume THAT is what actually happened in KC (problem #1) which also means I almost definitely just drove the son of a bitch 1k miles on a down f*cking cylinder.

So we fix that and now I'm freaking out thinking I fuel soaked it and I'm f*cked. the mechanic and basically everyone is his shop (and some of my buddies) says not to worry, I'm being paranoid, i should be good to go, just go enjoy the car man, and that "the fuel injector will shut off if the spark plug is unable to fire" (still don't think that's true but idk). I'm like OK, but demand they bore scope it and run a leak down. Leak down showed about even pressure across all 8 (cant remember the #s right now) and the bore scope showed very clean injectors, pistons and smooth cyl walls. The piston #1 did however show tiny little marks where whatever debris came in had pinged around for a second. I agreed that it did appear very insignificant, there were no indentations, only scoring (or markings) on the piston.

1 week passes - CEL again. I take it to another European specialist (shop #2). He says their's "something wrong with the tune".

I get a diagnostic session with Mike Benvo and he immediately sees an issue with the signal on the bank 1 O2 sensor and tells me to check that first.

I take it back to shop #2 discovers a boost leak, shitty O2 sensors that shop 1 installed, and exhaust leaks in every shit X-Pipe connection. I say great, fix it, change the oil because i'm scared I could have diluted oil, and fill up this here Blackstone labs oil sample kit and send it off (and i hand him the Blackstone labs oil sample kit).

Get the car back, guy is like go enjoy it! I'm like F*CK FINALLY! $2.5k later, 3 diagnostics, a bunch of incompetence (including my own) and I'm back on road and it ran like I had not yet experiences. I was like WOW this is definitely how it was supposed to feel all along. I enjoy the car for a drive or 2 around town when I look back and notice the Blackstone labs oil sample kit is still in the F*cking bag in the back floor board. Really? I call, it's late on a Friday, the shop guy says man i'm headed to the beach for a week but that's my bad, bring it back the Monday after next and ill take care of it. at this point I'm feeling positively about the car due to how much better it felt running and decide hell whatever, and I proceed to drive on it 2 or 3 times over the course of the next week. The car still had 3k more miles till the next oil change. I just wanted more piece of mind.

Sunday night, run an errand, Monday morning it goes back for the oil change and oil sample gets sent..

and...BOOM.

Smoke, Oil drained immediately, Metal debris in exhaust, coolant filled oil pan

Maybe me and a few others in the story are total idiots, maybe I'm an unlucky SOB who also can't find good work on cars. IDK maybe all the above.

Like mentioned earlier, it sits covered in storage as I evaluate options. I have not confirmed exactly the cause was or what damage is yet. Maybe main bearing failure due to uneven load when cyl 1 was misfiring? But it looks like a definite thrown rod with hole(s) in the block. I hope that I can tell if there is (or is not) BE rod bearings in it once I have it apart........

I do not believe uneven load from misfire would have effected the rod bearings at all, only the mains.. any speculations you guys?

Thank you if you have read this far. My question for those who have, what should I do??

- someone has expressed interest in buying everything minus powertrain and wheels (for an LS Swap racecar build).. what would the body and chassis be worth?

- if I decide to go all in and fix it to ultimately run it until the next CEF, what kind of options and money am I looking at? What is the best way to go about this? I do have a mechanic buddy who is willing to do the swap for a friendship discount.

ANY AND ALL input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[Dpc2u]

Wow, so sorry to hear this. I cringed while reading your tale of whoa. As to why it happened you are dealing with a whole host of unknowns. How hard was the car beat during the 20k miles of supercharged fun before you got it, were the bearings done when the S/C was installed, had something already caused the marks on the piston and damaged plug that led to your almost immediate issues, so on and so on. May never know.

As to what now, are you willing to drop another 10k+ in it? Used motor, 6 to 9k depending on mileage and condition, installation of new R/B's on used motor for peace of mind and the "friendship" labor rate. And if you are reinstalling the S/C you will want to make sure everything is tip top including the tune.

[SAMM3Y]

Fix it and swallow that hard bitter pill... run it NA for a bit before reinstalling supercharger. An '08 rolling chassis is worth what $12k? You can't eat all that loss in such a short period, it owes you now...

[spiderspider]

It was a good read, man. But wow, what a nightmare.

I think I would just look at it as a numbers game right now. If a rolling chassis is $12K, what's a used engine plus install - $15-$20K? I think I'd rather take that $12K and the motor money and put it into a low-$20K's M3. Or just cut your losses and drive a civic a few years.

[pbonsalb]

I don’t think it’s worth $12k as is. Spend $10k on a used engine and DIY the install. Change the rod bearings. Consider whether you want to reinstall the SC or sell it and whether you want to sell the car.

[scaryharry19]

Running rough numbers it seems that the difference in total loss is marginal.. or like within a 20% difference from each other give or take.

Option Sell It All Off
Chassis - +12k
S/C - +4k
Tranny - +1k
Diff - +2k
Total ReCouped - +$19k
Less Purchase Price - -$27.5 (incl. fees)
Total Loss - -$8.5

Option Fix It Keep It
Swap plus Labor - -9k
RB's and TB actuators - -2k
Total - -11k
Total Loss - -$11k

Option Fix It Sell It
Swap plus Labor - -10k (low mileage motor?)
RB's and TB actuators - -2k
Total - -12k
Sell Price - +30k (given low mileage motor, TBs & actuators.. reasonable to assume?)
Total Loss - -$9.5k

So it's like the sunk cost occurred the second I purchased.. and considering comparable cars (special and performant) (i.e. not a s/c'ed mustang) are like 2x the price. If I were to buy another car in the next 2 years I would spend more than any of these total losses even after sale of the M3 given depreciation and bad history. So I can really apply a sunk cost logic fallacy to the idea of fixing it and keeping it... sooo yeah do you guys have any objections to this? Am i missing anything?

[SAMM3Y]

If you can sort a solid motor for $10k and maybe spend a bit more properly sorting the car.. you still have a supercharged m3 for $40-45kish which is still cheaper than most people have spent supercharging their own... I've got more than that into my '08 with a pending SC install. The big nightmare is "if" it happens again... you need to find someone who knows these cars in your area who can do the motor/bearings and install. On paper it might not be worth half of what you will have into it but to you it'll be worth it. Or trade it as is, take the hit, buy gap insurance snd maybe the next new car gets struck by Jewish lightening?

I'm kidding of course the majority of my advice is questionable at best.

[SoCalRPM]

RIP -

Reading these types of things make me cringe. Sucks. It would be helpful to know when the RB replaced relative to the SC. Honestly, the best advice is gonna be whatever your own personal financial situation will allow.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by scaryharry19

Running rough numbers it seems that the difference in total loss is marginal.. or like within a 20% difference from each other give or take.

Option Sell It All Off
Chassis - +12k
S/C - +4k
Tranny - +1k
Diff - +2k
Total ReCouped - +$19k
Less Purchase Price - -$27.5 (incl. fees)
Total Loss - -$8.5

Option Fix It Keep It
Swap plus Labor - -9k
RB's and TB actuators - -2k
Total - -11k
Total Loss - -$11k

Option Fix It Sell It
Swap plus Labor - -10k (low mileage motor?)
RB's and TB actuators - -2k
Total - -12k
Sell Price - +30k (given low mileage motor, TBs & actuators.. reasonable to assume?)
Total Loss - -$9.5k

So it's like the sunk cost occurred the second I purchased.. and considering comparable cars (special and performant) (i.e. not a s/c'ed mustang) are like 2x the price. If I were to buy another car in the next 2 years I would spend more than any of these total losses even after sale of the M3 given depreciation and bad history. So I can really apply a sunk cost logic fallacy to the idea of fixing it and keeping it... sooo yeah do you guys have any objections to this? Am i missing anything?

The part out numbers are off. No one will pay you $12k for a blown motor M3, especially after you have sold off the trans and diff. And the diff is not worth $2k. You can remove the supercharger and sell that separately for around $4k. The chassis with blown engine with trans and diff is worth more like $6-8k. It has to be worth someone’s time and trouble to part or to fix, and as you have figured out, the value of fixing is at least $2k in labor, $1k in rod bearings and bolts, and probably $9k for a good used motor unless you get lucky and find one for a thousand or two or even 3 less. So the buyer is thinking whether it’s worthwhile to put about $12k into a $12k chassis to end up with a car worth about $24k. No way. Nothing in it for the buyer except a lot of work.

This was a terrible investment anyway you look at it, but that’s not really your fault. You took a lot of precautions buying a car with rod bearings done and having shops look at it. My take is that after this, you will be wary about owning a supercharged version of one of these cars, but also probably don’t want to own one that does not have that level of power. You will lose the least money by having your friend help with the motor, but you should give him a present for helping if you will just sell the car after unless he owes you for the equivalent of several days skilled labor you have given him.

Then suck it up and buy a car better equipped to handle the power you want.

A built S65 that is more likely to handle the supercharger will cost you at least twice the used engine option. It’s not really worth considering unless you love the car (like SYT_Shadow) or money is not really a concern. Given your financial analysis, it looks like money is a concern.

[Camnyc]

Pick up a used motor $5-$7500, swap in rb and ta and other preventative items and swap it in the car with the blower. Should be in it all said and done for a out 10-12k.

This is the risk you take when modding any car. Happens to all of us at one point or a other. Chalk it up to the experience and enjoy the car once you know its fixed properly.

[tdott]

Likely main bearing failure.
Sucks but it's more likely on a supercharged car.

[Bemo]

I'd source a replacement motor, do the bearings, mounts, plugs and lose the supercharger. Closer to 50-60k miles, new injectors just to be proactive, closer to 100k, a full rebuild. The motor is great in stock condition.

[STooK]

Yikes I’m really sorry you had to go through all that, I can’t even begin to imagine how you feel right now. I’ve bought a modded car in the past and it turned out to be one of my worst used car purchases but you live and learn.

Unfortunately it looks like there’s no good way out of this situation and you will lose a good amount of money. I would try to fix the car first and bring it back to stock as much as possible. Drive it that way for a while and if it’s reliable enough then maybe throw the sc on. At least this way yes you’ll be out of $, but at least you will be able to drive the car.

Good luck with everything and keep us posted.

[chief]

Been down this road in 2016.

My motor blew in a big way leaving windows in the top, side and bottom of the block...no core exchange here.

I decided to go with a 'new' OEM crate motor from BMW = $20k. I had all hoses, motor and trans mounts, belts, injectors, plugs, fluids, filters, trans gaskets, and at least a couple of other items in the engine bay that are escaping me replaced. All in $34k invoice out the door (I used my local BMW dealer).

In hindsight, for another $5k I could have purchased a built motor from someone like Carbahn Autoworks.

Anyway you slice it, this sucks big time.

My recommendation is to buy a quality built motor. You are upside down on the money already, so buy a high quality motor and enjoy for the car for the next decade.

[dgoldenz]

Sorry to hear it man, I feel your pain.

I'm currently going through the same thing, my Gintani stage 2 supercharged car blew the engine 2 days before a buyer was coming to pick it up. The car had upgraded rod bearings, only 10k miles on the SC/rod bearings. I decided to part out the SC, exhaust, and CF hood, put in a used donor motor, and sell it to a wholesaler just to be done with it. I paid $3k to have the supercharger removed + engine installed and $6400 for the engine.

Of course, the neverending nightmare reared its ugly head, and it turns out the new engine had some major issues. The shop told me it would cost $5800 to fix them with no guarantee that it would even work. Fortunately, I was smart enough to buy an engine that was advertised as having a 90-day warranty (AutoGator on ebay). When I sent them the repair estimate, I was really surprised that they agreed to help so easily. My choices were to spend $5800 to hopefully make it work, or to have the engine torn down and rebuilt for $10k (closer to $11k with rod bearing upgrade). Obviously, the rebuild makes more sense, so they fortunately agreed to give me $6k back from the $6400 I had paid in exchange for agreeing to drop any further claim and not file a CC chargeback or PayPal claim. I also get a one-year warranty from the shop with the rebuild, which will help with resale. I'm guessing the car will net an extra $5-7k or so with a brand new rebuilt engine with rod bearings upgraded (versus selling to a wholesaler).

My advice if you can swing it - buy the rebuilt engine that Mike Benvo is selling. Wish I had just done that from the start. In the end, it's going to be a wash cost-wise vs the route I ended up going, but it would've been a whole hell of a lot less hassle. You know you're getting an engine that is basically brand new and won't have to worry about this stuff (hopefully). Whether you want to put the SC back on again after that is up to you. Personally, I wouldn't do it again. If you blew the engine a second time you're going to hate life. FWIW, my car also had a blown engine due to rod bearings while totally stock at 25k miles and BMW covered it under warranty. There are zero guarantees with this car out of warranty.

[PKL]

Sorry to read your story. I would never buy a supercharged car, personally.

[bvrider1]

I would sell it and take a loss. A supercharged M3 is fun and I own one but I honestly believe there are ideal owners for cars like these.

1. The car owner that does his own work and not send it to a shop.

2. The car owner that has expendable cash flow to have a shop diagnosis, repair, and in your case a new motor purchase.

On your next car purchase buy something with warranty. Live and learn.

[GabeS]

I would first talk to the seller and try to come to an agreement.

2nd option if that doesn't work, sell the supercharger kit separately(5-6k) and sell the car with blown motor with 10k off msrp
3rd:sell the car as is for 10k off msrp.and offer the SC as an incentive for 4-5k more,.

Buy used engine off ebay+ lots of low mileage good ones going for less than 7k. some lower if you send your blown engine back to them.
Trust me lots of people that can work on cars but have less money would be down to pay for a blown engine car, labor to do a swap is 3k if you are gonna do it that way.

[bmwpower603]

Originally Posted by bvrider1

I would sell it and take a loss. A supercharged M3 is fun and I own one but I honestly believe there are ideal owners for cars like these.

1. The car owner that does his own work and not send it to a shop.

2. The car owner that has expendable cash flow to have a shop diagnosis, repair, and in your case a new motor purchase.

On your next car purchase buy something with warranty. Live and learn.

If you have a supercharged s65. Having an engine already on backup sounds like a good idea. Buy a nice engine stand, and at the least do the rod bearings. If you have experience with opening up engines (most people who own an s65 don’t) then you can replace your mains as well.

I have lots of engine experience with audi timing chains, regular bmw maintenance/major repairs, and restoration. And I would be probably a bit uncomfortable with replacing mains on an s65.

The intention for my 170k m3 is to keep it meticulously maintained, and stock. That way I “God willing,” won’t need to have to replace the engine ever.

If this was my vehicle. I would buy a used engine. And have the rod bearings done. And:
1. Have someone rebuild the other engine. (As a back up)

2. Have someone remove the mods, and install on used engine at some point

3. Keep the used engine stock, and sell all of the parts off the modded engine to re coupe the used engine/ install charges.

[Assimilator1]

scaryharry19
What did you do in the end?
Did you manage to sell the S/C?

[GotV8?]

I am truly sorry to hear of your unlucky break.... to be honest, only you know your personal financial position to be able to decide which is best for you. I, myself would sell the supercharger kit to help recoup some cost; to help purchase a used S65 motor and go NA for the time being. I had too had a blown motor when during my college years and that was in a 92 Honda Prelude and being a college student and working part time....it was definitely a big hit for me financially but we always work hard to find a way to make it work in life. Goodluck

[scaryharry19]

Thank you all for the responses, advise and warm regards!

I am out of college and gainfully employed.. but am I balling on a budget? Yes, Yes definitely. LOL

Speaking of bad luck I also got jumped by a group of guys in December right before Christmas and suffered a skull fracture. 3 days in the ICU and now I have 3 plates in my head. So yeah 2019 was not my year.

The M3 has been in storage.. I've been saving up and too busy with work & 2 months of leave for healing. Now that the country is on pause with COVID-19 and I've saved a bunch from having virtually zero expenses (I lived back at home after the hospitalization), I'm seriously trying to figure out the best way to go about this and have the car back on the road by June or so.

The logistics are so much more complicated for this sort of thing that I would've ever imagined. It's so easy to spend $20k+ while others manage to get back on the road @ $12k or so.

The issue with going stock is I will end up spending money on with retuning, buying stock injectors, intake plenum, etc.. that what little I would make back wouldn't justify the lack of power. So I'm pretty much dead set on re-supercharging. Meaning I need a motor that is low mileage and I need to do RB's or that is rebuilt.

Question - is anyone familiar with Ghassan Automotive?
They claim to be the largest BMW engine remanufacturer in the US. Offering a Remanufactured "full blown rebuild" "vertually zero miles" (according to Ghassan, the owner) S65 for $8500 plus $3000 core charge and $2300 install. Includes 2 year unlimited mile parts & labor warranty "even if I resupercharge it", fully machined block, crank & cylinders with King Main Bearings & ACL Rod Bearings. The owner Ghassan offered a full shop tour and free dyno day. They're mostly doing N54 motors though.. Their reviews are very hit or miss but there is little to nothing on their remanufactured S65 reviews. I spoke with one guy who had an awful experience with Ghassan with his s65, but frankly the guy was just an idiot and I think his story doesn't warrant any complaints. What do you guys think? It almost seems like it's too cheap to be true.