Suspension Recommendation

[Yugo]

All, I am a looking for aftermarket suspension recommendations. I have owned my M3 for almost 5 years and it's about time for a little refresh. I have been toying with the idea of getting a set of new 19" wheels for her, but can't make up my mind on a set yet.

I already know that suspension upgrade is something I would like to do as well down the road and since I can't make up my mind on the wheels, might as well pull the trigger on suspension first.

Car is driven almost daily, and has 69k miles and EDC. I am looking for lowering the car just enough to close the fender gap or have a few mm of it at most (don't want the slammed look); great handling is a must; firm ride is ok; EDC retention a must; budget is around $1,500. What do you all recommend? Any pics would help. Thanks.

Here is pic of what she looks like now on stock suspension.

[Richbot]

I'd stick with the EDC dampers and get the Dinan stage 1 kit or piece together something similar - Swift or similar springs, a front swaybar (Dinan, Hotchkis) and shaved front guide supports, with the Dinan fixed front camber plates. I wouldn't go much past 2 degrees of camber unless you get a wheel/tire setup that allows you to rotate, but the order of operations on improved handling is:

Front camber
Wider front wheel (and tire, but don't go too crazy)
Everything else

You might also consider just adding a set of stock ZCP springs, pulling the front camber pins and spending the rest of that money on nice wheels. You might be surprised how much you like it. I dailied my '08 E90 for a loooong time on stock ZCP springs and the Dinan plates and front bar and really liked that setup. I now have Sachs coilovers and while the extra front spring rate and ability to go lower and adjust the dampers is nice, I don't actually use the adjustment much and ended up only setting it a few mm lower than the stock ZCP springs had the car sitting

[Yugo]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I'd stick with the EDC dampers and get the Dinan stage 1 kit or piece together something similar - Swift or similar springs, a front swaybar (Dinan, Hotchkis) and shaved front guide supports, with the Dinan fixed front camber plates. I wouldn't go much past 2 degrees of camber unless you get a wheel/tire setup that allows you to rotate, but the order of operations on improved handling is:

Front camber
Wider front wheel (and tire, but don't go too crazy)
Everything else

You might also consider just adding a set of stock ZCP springs, pulling the front camber pins and spending the rest of that money on nice wheels. You might be surprised how much you like it. I dailied my '08 E90 for a loooong time on stock ZCP springs and the Dinan plates and front bar and really liked that setup. I now have Sachs coilovers and while the extra front spring rate and ability to go lower and adjust the dampers is nice, I don't actually use the adjustment much and ended up only setting it a few mm lower than the stock ZCP springs had the car sitting

Thanks for your detailed response. If I do go the spring route, do I risk of having to replace my stock shocks soon? Given they have 69k miles on them and aftermarket/firmer springs will put more wear and tear on them. Also, in the order of things you listed above, are you saying it would be better to do neg camber and wider wheels/tires before I start messing with suspension upgrades?

[Timujin]

Have you considered a setup like Ohling R&T or Richbot's setup? I was against adjustable suspension forever, but Ohlins R&T changed my mind. I didn't know how the ride was going to compare to the factory setup, but R&T has exceeded all expectations while being slightly lower than stock. Changing the firmness can be done in 5 minutes with the car on the ground. I didn't use camber plates.

[Yugo]

Originally Posted by Timujin

Have you considered a setup like Ohling R&T or Richbot's setup? I was against adjustable suspension forever, but Ohlins R&T changed my mind. I didn't know how the ride was going to compare to the factory setup, but R&T has exceeded all expectations while being slightly lower than stock. Changing the firmness can be done in 5 minutes with the car on the ground. I didn't use camber plates.

Yes, I did. I like the coilovers option which would provide all new components. I don't necessarily need the option to readjust settings. I will prob set it and forget it. I do however like to kelp edc function. I am trying to find best fit for the budget of around $1,500. Can you share pics of your set up?

[EricSMG]

These cars handle extremely well bone stock with very, very high limits, killer stability and immense front grip. Given the described usage, I do not agree with the camber/wheel/tire recommendations here, unless the OP is actually wanting to increase the car's limits (which I would find extremely unlikely). They won't hurt but they are unnecessary in my opinion. Even for aggressive canyon runs I would still say totally unnecessary as I found this car to have very little under-steer in that environment, bone stock. The stock car will go as fast as you have the balls to take it on any road.

No offense meant, Rich, it's just that those things will not improve the car in meaningful ways for normal street use unless the specific target is "increased front grip".

HOWEVER! Tell us more about the Sachs coilovers.

[Timujin]

After 18s, before 18s & after 19s. I raised the front slightly after these photos because my driveway was too steep and I wanted more travel. I have changed the firmness four times. 20 clicks from full hard on 18" wheels was very comfortable. Currently running 10 clicks from full hard on 19" wheels which works well with 30 series tires.

[Richbot]

I think people talking about shocks wearing out are usually making shit up. Show me the broken part. The stock sachs stuff is extremely nice quality if not the perfect damping for all occasions.

I disagree camber and a front wheel width increase don’t improve regular street car handling. The car goes from immediate corner entry understeer to neutral corner entry. On a street car unless you’re hooning, corner entry is where the fun is. Put a 245 on an 8.5 on the front of my car and the steering immediately goes limp and needs a lot more input. Yeah you “feel” more but what you feel more of is the signals of impending understeer

[Timujin]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I think people talking about shocks wearing out are usually making shit up. Show me the broken part. The stock sachs stuff is extremely nice quality if not the perfect damping for all occasions.

I disagree camber and a front wheel width increase don't improve regular street car handling. The car goes from immediate corner entry understeer to neutral corner entry. On a street car unless you're hooning, corner entry is where the fun is. Put a 245 on an 8.5 on the front of my car and the steering immediately goes limp and needs a lot more input. Yeah you "feel" more but what you feel more of is the signals of impending understeer

I am running 275/30 up front and I think a 5 point harness is in order. I could easily knock out a passenger by making an emergency maneuver and smacking their head into the door glass.

[Yugo]

Originally Posted by Timujin

After 18s, before 18s & after 19s. I raised the front slightly after these photos because my driveway was too steep and I wanted more travel. I have changed the firmness four times. 20 clicks from full hard on 18" wheels was very comfortable. Currently running 10 clicks from full hard on 19" wheels which works well with 30 series tires.

Thanks for sharing. Car looks great in all 3 pics. Love the stance in #1 and #3.

[Yugo]

Great input everyone, thanks. It provides something to think about before I make a final decision.

If I go the spring route which is suggested by Richbot, I can lower the car, get better handling and do it for cheaper than coilovers option. All sounds great, especially when I saw this guy's thread that has a SSII E90 on springs: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1608380

As far as aftermarket springs go, any better than others? And in addition to springs I need to get E36 bumpstops?

Coilovers will cost me more and since I am looking for a set around $1,500 I am not sure how much better quality that will be than what I already have in the car. Anyone else thinks otherwise in favor of coils over springs?

[zhan28]

My car was on oem edc and h&r springs. Just recently swapped them for bilstein b6 with edc, night and day difference. The oem shocks were GONE, as in I can compress it just by resting my hand on it. My car did have 95k miles. But honestly, if your car was ever lowered, they will be shot. Adjustable springs may allow retaining of edc, but realize your shocks will wear prematurely.

As far as B6 struts, my previous car was 2013 ZCP with low mileage. Bilsteins are definitely firmer in all modes, but the dampening is much better than ZCP. No crash, the goes over road imperfections without hesitation.

[Montaver]

Personally I wouldn't be throwing money at stock shocks with 70K, the rebound on the stock dampers is pretty weak to begin with. Particularly as the labour cost for installing springs + shaved top mounts is going to come out similar to installing a proper set of coil overs. For the street only I would look at the Bilstein B12 kit, it's passive dampers with Eibach springs and I believe is under $1k. If you want to spend a little more Ohlins R&T are a huge step up over stock and still very livable on the street when dialed down. When I moved from stock suspension to Ohlins it massively increased my enjoyment of the car, it tips it from feeling like a GT car into sports car territory.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Personally I wouldn't be throwing money at stock shocks with 70K, the rebound on the stock dampers is pretty weak to begin with. Particularly as the labour cost for installing springs + shaved top mounts is going to come out similar to installing a proper set of coil overs. For the street only I would look at the Bilstein B12 kit, it's passive dampers with Eibach springs and I believe is under $1k. If you want to spend a little more Ohlins R&T are a huge step up over stock and still very livable on the street when dialed down. When I moved from stock suspension to Ohlins it massively increased my enjoyment of the car, it tips it from feeling like a GT car into sports car territory.

+1

At 70k miles I would definitely not put lowering springs on the dampers.

For 1k you can get B12 and lose EDC but have very nice street oriented suspension. This is what I'd do for a street M3
For 2k you can get the B6/8 version that retains EDC

[Richbot]

I see it this way - the design brief - <$1500, retains EDC, lower but not ridiculous, better handling but not necssarily a track car, means springs, camber plates or just shaved strut mounts and e36 bumpstops. I'd use the ZCP springs to keep the stock EDC dampers and my butt in the happy place.

If you're willing to go over budget, new dampers are a possibility, but they aren't at this price point unless you're buying used. I wouldn't want to go any stiffer than the ZCP springs on the stock EDC dampers, because they AREN'T any stiffer, but at least you get the 10mm lower and relatively cush spring rate, the lower DOES improve handling a bit by necessity (these cars aren't ruining their geometry with a 10mm drop, duh, it's a stock part) and you get a bit more camber up front from the lowering

If you start talking about blowing the budget, well, yeah, of course there are lots of better options