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      07-12-2020, 01:12 PM   #1
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Should I get another e9x M3 or....

Hey guys - thinking about my options here. I sold my E90 M3 back in Dec of 2018 because commuting in a 6spd manual was a serious pain. Plus, the car was mint and the wear and tear was something I didn't want to subject the car to. Plus, if I'm being honest, I always wanted a CF roof, so I knew I'd be looking for an E92 someday. Anyway, I spent the first half of 2019 looking for an F10 M5; finally found the right car; a 1 owner 2015 comp pack w/ low miles, CPO through August of 2020, all service rec's from day 1, and already Dinan tuned. Great, right? Well, although I love the F10 M5 for what it is, I can't help but miss the e9x M3, the rawness, the fun, the agility (relative to the F10). So after this covid thing, I'm working from home and the M5 has found itself on a tender. I drive it, maaaybe once a week and it's usually for a "sanity" drive, aka a back road blast. Here's the thing - it's just not made for that. It handles fine and yea, it's a good time, but I find myself a bit...I don't know, "off" saying this but it's a bit numb. It just doesn't have the soul of the e9x M3. Not sure if it's the turbo, the power delivery, the heft, the 600+ bhp or what. On the highway, yea, great. It's a luxurious couch that will do 140 mph in the blink of an eye and get your thrown in jail too, if you're not careful. It's stupid fast, but just not as engaging/fun as the E9x. So not to bore you all w/ my explanation, but that's the background of my current situation.

So with the above in mind, I've been hunting for a low option (no nav/6spd/CF roof) e92. A couple of weeks ago, I went to a cars and coffee and met a bunch of porsche guys. Of course, they talked me into considering the Cayman, specifically the 981, which seems to be attainable for my budget. I'm not a fan of the looks of the original caymans, they look a bit dated to me. So, long story short, I drove a newer 718 (turbo 4 cyl) and loved it. I was told that the 981 (N/A flat 6) is even better, from an experience perspective. As a result, I've been casually looking at Caymans.

The other car I might consider, based on what I'm looking for, is the M2 (brand loyalty I guess). I haven't driven one but plan to soon.

Another reason for this "change" is that I want to run some HPDE's at some point (I'll admit, I'm a complete novice) and doing so in the M5 seems a bit much (traction is a problem as is) and too costly in the long run.

So, with all that being said - what would you guys do?

E9x M3, 2014-2016 981 Cayman/Cayman S, or an M2? I know a few of you have been down this road, would love to hear your opinions.

Thanks!
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      07-12-2020, 01:23 PM   #2
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That's a toughy. I have not driven the M2 or Cayman so I'm not going to be much help here but the experience of an e9x is tough to match. I too have been eyeing M2s and plan to Turo one her shortly to get some seat time. That said if they're anything like the F8x (I assume they are) I will be steering away.
If you're looking to jump in to some track events the e9x doesn't need much. I did pads, lines, fluids and an alignment and the car handle Sebring like a champ. Of course you can go crazy as many do on this forum but its a great platform to ease in. I'm sure the same could be said for the Cayman but I'm one of those guys that's 911 or nothing when it comes to Porsche..
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      07-12-2020, 02:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94jedi View Post
Hey guys - thinking about my options here. I sold my E90 M3 back in Dec of 2018 because commuting in a 6spd manual was a serious pain. Plus, the car was mint and the wear and tear was something I didn't want to subject the car to. Plus, if I'm being honest, I always wanted a CF roof, so I knew I'd be looking for an E92 someday. Anyway, I spent the first half of 2019 looking for an F10 M5; finally found the right car; a 1 owner 2015 comp pack w/ low miles, CPO through August of 2020, all service rec's from day 1, and already Dinan tuned. Great, right? Well, although I love the F10 M5 for what it is, I can't help but miss the e9x M3, the rawness, the fun, the agility (relative to the F10). So after this covid thing, I'm working from home and the M5 has found itself on a tender. I drive it, maaaybe once a week and it's usually for a "sanity" drive, aka a back road blast. Here's the thing - it's just not made for that. It handles fine and yea, it's a good time, but I find myself a bit...I don't know, "off" saying this but it's a bit numb. It just doesn't have the soul of the e9x M3. Not sure if it's the turbo, the power delivery, the heft, the 600+ bhp or what. On the highway, yea, great. It's a luxurious couch that will do 140 mph in the blink of an eye and get your thrown in jail too, if you're not careful. It's stupid fast, but just not as engaging/fun as the E9x. So not to bore you all w/ my explanation, but that's the background of my current situation.

So with the above in mind, I've been hunting for a low option (no nav/6spd/CF roof) e92. A couple of weeks ago, I went to a cars and coffee and met a bunch of porsche guys. Of course, they talked me into considering the Cayman, specifically the 981, which seems to be attainable for my budget. I'm not a fan of the looks of the original caymans, they look a bit dated to me. So, long story short, I drove a newer 718 (turbo 4 cyl) and loved it. I was told that the 981 (N/A flat 6) is even better, from an experience perspective. As a result, I've been casually looking at Caymans.

The other car I might consider, based on what I'm looking for, is the M2 (brand loyalty I guess). I haven't driven one but plan to soon.

Another reason for this "change" is that I want to run some HPDE's at some point (I'll admit, I'm a complete novice) and doing so in the M5 seems a bit much (traction is a problem as is) and too costly in the long run.

So, with all that being said - what would you guys do?

E9x M3, 2014-2016 981 Cayman/Cayman S, or an M2? I know a few of you have been down this road, would love to hear your opinions.

Thanks!
Short answer YES you should unless you go with a Porsche GT car but Porsche GT cars are tracked oriented. The E9X is a great Gran Turismo car with a nice balance of refinement and ultimate driving experience. I am the original owner of 03 S2K, 12 E92 M3 Frozen Silver Edition ZCP and 18 Porsche GT3. I am mentioning the above because the E9X is a keeper, the S65 engine is a jewel. While owning the E92 M3, I have owned E39 M5, E60 M5, F10 M5, 991 Carrera S, 991 GTS but first three mentioned are keepers. The E92 M3 is an engaging car with hydraulic power steering which gives it a good feel and of course a masterful engine. My experience has been remarkable with this car, zero issues after 48k miles. The E92 body lines are timeless, it is an athlete in a tuxedo. In our household is the daily driver and it brings a smile everytime you start that V8 engine. FYI - MPE M Performance Exhaust is a must IMHO.

I got tired of the F10 after 12 months. I have driven the M2 on the street and track, it is not as raw as the E9X. The Cayman has better handling but the S65 V8 does it for me.

Hope that helps.
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      07-12-2020, 04:58 PM   #4
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If you can swing the 981 Cayman S/GTS, that would be a MAJOR contender for the weekender/fun toy car. But if your work situation changes by Q1/Q2 2021, then what?

The F10 M5 or F80 M3 are exactly that - fantastic performance commuters made a bit more to enjoy the day to day work grind. As you clearly discovered.
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      07-12-2020, 05:36 PM   #5
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Oneof40 has it right. The e92 is a special car. I came out of an F80 and drove all its competitors, C63S, alpha, etc. Then my friend told me to drive an e92. 2 min into the test drive I was sold. Screaming NA V8, hydraulic steering, it feel very well made. Only area that I felt the e92 suffered was the brakes. My buddy saved me 60k!

The M2 is great little track toy, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to daily drive one. The ride was very busy and the steering had little feel. The M2 also felt cheaply built (328/335) sport seats)

Cayman is an amazing car if you don't need a rear seat. I've had the opportunity to drive new and old caymans and they are very impressive track/street. If I didn't have a kid, I would definitely drive a cayman.

E92 for the win!
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      07-12-2020, 06:01 PM   #6
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Having owned a few Caymans (still have one now) and having just owned a zcp e92 m3 up until a few months ago, I will say that no M3 or M2, or any BMW really, can touch a Cayman as far as driving dynamics go. Simple physics of a bespoke mid engine ~3,000 lbs chassis vs. a souped up 3 series sedan based FR chassis.

Thought about picking up a 911 a year or so ago to scratch that itch but after a few test drives of a few different variants, I still felt the Cayman was more fun and a better, more enjoyable drive.

+1 on the 981 Cayman. You can get a decent S for about $50/55k and they are bulletproof to boot. If you don’t want to spend that much a 987.2. (2009-2012) Cayman S can be had for $35/40k. Honestly, my current base 987.2 Cayman with only 265 hp is an absolute blast and I kept it over my mint e92 m3 if that tells you anything. They are phenomenal cars but I do also agree that it would be tough to have one as your only car, family or not. If you are looking for a Swiss Army knife type of car, one car to do it all; e92 M3 or 911 is really the only choice I see.
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      07-13-2020, 10:55 AM   #7
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An M2 is a significantly better track car -especially to learn- than a Cayman... however, if you drove a 4 cylinder Cayman and loved it you probably should buy a Cayman

I am not surprised you met lots of Porsche guys in a Cars and Coffee. I always enjoy meeting people there who know as much about tracking as I do about cultivating watermelons speak about track dynamics and what is good for the track. Quite hilarious.

A M2c can be bought brand new for under 60k new, already has 'track worthy brakes', is much easier to drive and learn track dynamics in, has a much more flexible and powerful engine, has gearing meant for actual driving vs the Cayman's 83mph 2nd gear, is under warranty so you don't have to blow one up to realize it is not a track car like the Cayman.
However, an M2c does not carry a Porsche badge so one can't tell their friends they 'drive a Porsche'. Also, it doesn't allow for long dissertations about midengined cars being better for the track which is like listening to a quantum physics explanation from a turtle. So it definitely has some drawbacks. Don't get a M2!


Also, there is no such thing as 'bulletproof' when it comes to Porsche. Only people who don't track or really don't know make those statements. After a chief instructor telling me he's put 100k into his 996 GT3 over the past 2 years trying to get it to work properly -still slower than the E90 or the CS- and pushing a GT3 into a trailer after another owner of these 'bulletproof' cars broke his transmission all I can do it laugh and shake my head when I hear such ridiculous, uninformed opinions. Both of those GT3 incidents are from this past weekend BTW.

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      07-13-2020, 01:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
An M2 is a significantly better track car -especially to learn- than a Cayman... however, if you drove a 4 cylinder Cayman and loved it you probably should buy a Cayman

I am not surprised you met lots of Porsche guys in a Cars and Coffee. I always enjoy meeting people who know as much about tracking as I do about cultivating watermelons speak about track dynamics and what is good for the track. Quite hilarious.

A M2c can be bought for under 60k new, already has 'track worthy brakes', is much easier to drive and learn track dynamics in, has a much more flexible and powerful engine, has gearing meant for actual driving vs the Cayman's 83mph 2nd gear, is under warranty so you don't have to blow one up to realize it is not a track car like the Cayman.
However, an M2c does not carry a Porsche badge so one can't tell their friends they 'drive a Porsche'. Also, it doesn't allow for long dissertations about midengined cars being better for the track which is like listening to a quantum physics explanation from a turtle. So it definitely has some drawbacks. Don't get one of these!


Also, there is no such thing as 'bulletproof' when it comes to Porsche. Only people who don't track or really don't know make those statements. After a chief instructor telling me he's put 100k into his 996 GT3 over the past 2 years trying to get it to work properly -still slower than the E90 or the CS- and pushing a GT3 into a trailer after another owner of these 'bulletproof' cars broke his transmission all I can do it laugh and shake my head when I hear such ridiculous, uninformed opinions
To be fair I think bulletproof was more in reference to the 981 as a street car rather than heavily used track car.

+1 on the M2 though.
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      07-13-2020, 02:41 PM   #9
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You guys all make a great point about 2 seats vs 4; As much as I think my current commute/daily driving situation won't change, if it does, the e92 or even M2 leaves me in a much better spot than having a 2-seater Cayman. The more I think about it, the more I think the Cayman is a 3rd or weekend car for my current situation. My Wife's X5 has proven to be somewhat reliable (knock on wood) but we know the N55 and the woes of the e70 platform. With that in mind, I should have something that's fun and trackable, but can carry all 3 of us (assuming I sell the F10 M5).

So that leaves the E92 vs the F87 but I have to admit, a huge part of the experience for me was the S65. I think the the E92 is going to win out here.
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      07-13-2020, 03:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94jedi View Post
You guys all make a great point about 2 seats vs 4; As much as I think my current commute/daily driving situation won't change, if it does, the e92 or even M2 leaves me in a much better spot than having a 2-seater Cayman. The more I think about it, the more I think the Cayman is a 3rd or weekend car for my current situation. My Wife's X5 has proven to be somewhat reliable (knock on wood) but we know the N55 and the woes of the e70 platform. With that in mind, I should have something that's fun and trackable, but can carry all 3 of us (assuming I sell the F10 M5).

So that leaves the E92 vs the F87 but I have to admit, a huge part of the experience for me was the S65. I think the the E92 is going to win out here.
I bought a grill at Home Depot and got it into the e90 (in pieces) on the 4th of July and I just did an Ikea run for a bookshelf and a desk in the M2 so yea these two are relatively "practical" for "sports" cars/daily drivers.

You could probably keep the M5 though and add something cheap like a Miata though for the weekend?
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      07-13-2020, 03:22 PM   #11
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I think the E92 is a great all round package and currently excellent value.
What you like about the e92 M3 doesn't exist in any other single car for the money.
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      07-14-2020, 08:37 AM   #12
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I absolutely understand where you are coming from, and took a path similar to yours. I sold my E36 M3 and attempted to be an "adult" with a E39 540i, but the experience was not the same. The same things you described with your M5 echo what I found with the 540i. To me it the size and weight difference seemed a "bridge too far" and eventually I had to return to 3-series via an E90 330i.

So to make a very long story short, I have recently returned to BMW with an E90 M3 and as you can see I got very lucky finding the right car, and it's been an absolute blast to be back. And this time around for the 1st time I went with the DCT, and it's been equally rewarding.

Living and commuting/driving in heavy traffic ALL THE TIME in Wash DC area finally killed my preference for 6MT

Given the information you have provided and my experience, I believe it's futile for you to resist any longer: Go find an E9x M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94jedi View Post
Hey guys - thinking about my options here. I sold my E90 M3 back in Dec of 2018 because commuting in a 6spd manual was a serious pain.

Well, although I love the F10 M5 for what it is, I can't help but miss the e9x M3, the rawness, the fun, the agility (relative to the F10). So after this covid thing, I'm working from home and the M5 has found itself on a tender. I drive it, maaaybe once a week and it's usually for a "sanity" drive, aka a back road blast. Here's the thing - it's just not made for that. It handles fine and yea, it's a good time, but I find myself a bit...I don't know, "off" saying this but it's a bit numb. It just doesn't have the soul of the e9x M3. Not sure if it's the turbo, the power delivery, the heft, the 600+ bhp or what. On the highway, yea, great. It's a luxurious couch that will do 140 mph in the blink of an eye and get your thrown in jail too, if you're not careful. It's stupid fast, but just not as engaging/fun as the E9x. So not to bore you all w/ my explanation, but that's the background of my current situation.

So with the above in mind, I've been hunting for a low option (no nav/6spd/CF roof) e92.


So, with all that being said - what would you guys do?

E9x M3, 2014-2016 981 Cayman/Cayman S, or an M2? I know a few of you have been down this road, would love to hear your opinions.

Thanks!
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      07-16-2020, 10:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
An M2 is a significantly better track car -especially to learn- than a Cayman... however, if you drove a 4 cylinder Cayman and loved it you probably should buy a Cayman

I am not surprised you met lots of Porsche guys in a Cars and Coffee. I always enjoy meeting people there who know as much about tracking as I do about cultivating watermelons speak about track dynamics and what is good for the track. Quite hilarious.

A M2c can be bought brand new for under 60k new, already has 'track worthy brakes', is much easier to drive and learn track dynamics in, has a much more flexible and powerful engine, has gearing meant for actual driving vs the Cayman's 83mph 2nd gear, is under warranty so you don't have to blow one up to realize it is not a track car like the Cayman.
However, an M2c does not carry a Porsche badge so one can't tell their friends they 'drive a Porsche'. Also, it doesn't allow for long dissertations about midengined cars being better for the track which is like listening to a quantum physics explanation from a turtle. So it definitely has some drawbacks. Don't get a M2!


Also, there is no such thing as 'bulletproof' when it comes to Porsche. Only people who don't track or really don't know make those statements. After a chief instructor telling me he's put 100k into his 996 GT3 over the past 2 years trying to get it to work properly -still slower than the E90 or the CS- and pushing a GT3 into a trailer after another owner of these 'bulletproof' cars broke his transmission all I can do it laugh and shake my head when I hear such ridiculous, uninformed opinions. Both of those GT3 incidents are from this past weekend BTW.
Lol. Haven't been to one of those cars and coffee things in a while, but when I did I would look for the Porsche GT car with AP racing brakes, harnesses, and ... holy shit are those racing slicks? Those guys usually know whats up.

Of the people that buy GT cars, very few of us actually run them on a track and have professional teams managing them so I'm not surprised about your encounters.

I have found the GT cars hold up to some incredible abuse. But like any car the brakes, tires and setup (alignment) must be addressed by a Porsche racing organization....not the local shop.
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      07-17-2020, 09:57 AM   #14
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I have to say, I really like the E92, I've owned a bunch of them and they are more fun to drive overall than the F8x platform, so I bought a manual which is a complete $ pit but hopefully I can get every maintenance item taken care of and then really enjoy that manual V8. For now the F82 CS is staying as well because I think that's the best and most aggresively styled M series car, it just lacks something in terms of spirit that the E92 has.
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      07-18-2020, 09:10 AM   #15
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... the F82 CS is staying as well because I think that's the best and most aggresively styled M series car, it just lacks something in terms of spirit that the E92 has.
That's what I found as well. LOVE the styling of the F8x gen M's but man as a driver, they just don't do it for me. I guess if I really needed a vehicle to do it all, I'd probably pick an F80 M3; 4 doors, styling, fast, still somewhat fun, etc. My F10 M5 is a GREAT car, but definitely more of a "commuter"/GT long-range car, which I don't do much of now. Or the F10 M5 is your highway-roll racing bully. Not much out there going to hang w/ you.

Again, I keep coming back to the E92 because I don't think I'm ready (or able, really) to give up my back seats yet.
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      07-18-2020, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94jedi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
... the F82 CS is staying as well because I think that's the best and most aggresively styled M series car, it just lacks something in terms of spirit that the E92 has.
That's what I found as well. LOVE the styling of the F8x gen M's but man as a driver, they just don't do it for me. I guess if I really needed a vehicle to do it all, I'd probably pick an F80 M3; 4 doors, styling, fast, still somewhat fun, etc. My F10 M5 is a GREAT car, but definitely more of a "commuter"/GT long-range car, which I don't do much of now. Or the F10 M5 is your highway-roll racing bully. Not much out there going to hang w/ you.

Again, I keep coming back to the E92 because I don't think I'm ready (or able, really) to give up my back seats yet.
Don't get me wrong, if I need to go fast around a corner, I'll take my M4CS over the E92 M3 any time. Same with if I need to blast down the freeway, no comparison really. However, the CS only comes with a hyped up autotragic, sorry I mean dual clutch "manual", who am I kidding, and I'll offer it up along with some handling to feel that extra connectedness to the car. Same with acceleration. The CS can't put the power down, it skips, judders and so forth at low acceleration. When I put everything in sport mode it's damn near undriveable. I'll sacrifice the power for balance, 6 gears and the noise. Fun wise, nothing beats a supercharged manual E92.

I still like to go on date night in style and have the latest tech. So I'll have both the E92 and F82. I'll add in my Chevy Sonic for when it rains.
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      07-18-2020, 08:40 PM   #17
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      07-20-2020, 12:36 PM   #18
GeorgeA
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Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I am not surprised you met lots of Porsche guys in a Cars and Coffee. I always enjoy meeting people there who know as much about tracking as I do about cultivating watermelons speak about track dynamics and what is good for the track. Quite hilarious.
best thing I’ve read on m3post in a LONG time hahahaaa
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94jedi829.00
      07-20-2020, 12:58 PM   #19
SYT_Shadow
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Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTSx2/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
Don't get me wrong, if I need to go fast around a corner, I'll take my M4CS over the E92 M3 any time. Same with if I need to blast down the freeway, no comparison really. However, the CS only comes with a hyped up autotragic, sorry I mean dual clutch "manual", who am I kidding, and I'll offer it up along with some handling to feel that extra connectedness to the car. Same with acceleration. The CS can't put the power down, it skips, judders and so forth at low acceleration. When I put everything in sport mode it's damn near undriveable. I'll sacrifice the power for balance, 6 gears and the noise. Fun wise, nothing beats a supercharged manual E92.

I still like to go on date night in style and have the latest tech. So I'll have both the E92 and F82. I'll add in my Chevy Sonic for when it rains.
I also have the E9X and F80 CS

A suggestion from a M4 GT4 pro driver for the CS: steering in efficient, throttle in efficient, DCT in mode 1. That's for track use.
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