AlpineMSS Low RPM Catless X-Pipe Misfire/Torque Dip/Bog - RESOLVED

gh0stE92M3 · 11-05-2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94jedi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdott

How would you compare the two objectively? Usually dynos don't start until after 3k.

that's a good point. I've not had a car dyno'd in a while. Not sure other than logs but even still, same environment, temps, etc. could wreak havoc.

You can have them start the dyno at any rpm

gh0stE92M3 · 11-06-2020, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdott

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

So any updates from people that have gotten on the test file with alpine? Or has this issue died out? Still considering going with epic tune if this doesn't get resolved or just change out the whole system I'm running.

It's much better, the issue is 90% gone for me. I sent Alex some logs after testing revision #2. It's much more livable now. I just feel a very slight change at that rpm. It's not a hesitation anymore where the car stops accelerating. It's more of a change over like when Vtech kicks in.

It's funny when I offered to send Alex logs he said logs aren't gonna fix the issue. Glad it's working better for you. Hope he gets this sorted out.

And logs aren't still going to fix the issue. The vehicle is in a transitional period from part throttle to full throttle. Only back and forth testing is going to fix the issue.

I totally agree with you that logs aren't going to fix the issue, but using the logs as a tool to actually see what's going on during that transitional period will help instead of "tell me whats happening". With previous cars I've owned whenever there's an issue with how the car runs my tuner would ask for logs to be able to replicate the issue so he could see what the car is actually doing. I maybe new to the whole bmw dme scene but I've been around cars and building them for some time. Call me old school but logs help to figure out the problem and help you as the tuner to solve the problem. Making a generic tune for a platform is fine, but from my experience every car is different, and every car runs differently. Hence why each issue varies a little.

The problem was identified. Going back and forth between logs will not do anything at all period. I am sorry you are unhappy with this answer but this specific problem isn't going to get fixed by multiple logs from the car.

You can ask every single person in the test group, I did not ask any of them for logs. The gentleman above and another gentleman from overseas volunteered their logs without me asking them.

If you still keep in contact with your respected tuner ask if the transition period from part throttle to full throttle can be fixed through multiple logs. Yes, you will see the original problem in the log but at the end of the day only user feedback will tell you if the problem is fixed.

Honestly it wouldn't take multiple logs to be able to fix the issue. It would take one maybe two logs to see what the issue is. I've had this issue with a previous car where the car would hesitate at a certain rpm and yea in a transitional state from partial throttle to full throttle. The logs showed what the issue was which was the wastegate threshold and my tuner was able to fix it with one flash. Again we can go back and forth about this but if you can't see the logic in using logs as a tool to help you identify the real issue. Then what are you really doing? Changing parameters blindly and hoping it will work?

Everyone In this test group is having issues with your tune file with this xpipe. But also everyone seems to be experiencing it at different rpm levels and throttle inputs. So making one calibration isn't going to be a one size fits all.

Alex@Alpine · 11-06-2020, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdott

Quote:

Originally Posted by gh0stE92M3

So any updates from people that have gotten on the test file with alpine? Or has this issue died out? Still considering going with epic tune if this doesn't get resolved or just change out the whole system I'm running.

It's much better, the issue is 90% gone for me. I sent Alex some logs after testing revision #2. It's much more livable now. I just feel a very slight change at that rpm. It's not a hesitation anymore where the car stops accelerating. It's more of a change over like when Vtech kicks in.

It's funny when I offered to send Alex logs he said logs aren't gonna fix the issue. Glad it's working better for you. Hope he gets this sorted out.

And logs aren't still going to fix the issue. The vehicle is in a transitional period from part throttle to full throttle. Only back and forth testing is going to fix the issue.

I totally agree with you that logs aren't going to fix the issue, but using the logs as a tool to actually see what's going on during that transitional period will help instead of "tell me whats happening". With previous cars I've owned whenever there's an issue with how the car runs my tuner would ask for logs to be able to replicate the issue so he could see what the car is actually doing. I maybe new to the whole bmw dme scene but I've been around cars and building them for some time. Call me old school but logs help to figure out the problem and help you as the tuner to solve the problem. Making a generic tune for a platform is fine, but from my experience every car is different, and every car runs differently. Hence why each issue varies a little.

The problem was identified. Going back and forth between logs will not do anything at all period. I am sorry you are unhappy with this answer but this specific problem isn't going to get fixed by multiple logs from the car.

You can ask every single person in the test group, I did not ask any of them for logs. The gentleman above and another gentleman from overseas volunteered their logs without me asking them.

If you still keep in contact with your respected tuner ask if the transition period from part throttle to full throttle can be fixed through multiple logs. Yes, you will see the original problem in the log but at the end of the day only user feedback will tell you if the problem is fixed.

Honestly it wouldn't take multiple logs to be able to fix the issue. It would take one maybe two logs to see what the issue is. I've had this issue with a previous car where the car would hesitate at a certain rpm and yea in a transitional state from partial throttle to full throttle. The logs showed what the issue was which was the wastegate threshold and my tuner was able to fix it with one flash. Again we can go back and forth about this but if you can't see the logic in using logs as a tool to help you identify the real issue. Then what are you really doing? Changing parameters blindly and hoping it will work?

Everyone In this test group is having issues with your tune file with this xpipe. But also everyone seems to be experiencing it at different rpm levels and throttle inputs. So making one calibration isn't going to be a one size fits all.

I never said I'm not using logs, I said I don't need yours at the moment.

This is nothing personal or a pissing match.

Spoff_E90_M3 · 11-09-2020, 12:00 PM

I ran this solution at the track this past weekend and can confirm no issue at all at higher RPMs and the Bimmerworld X-pipe. If Alex can fix the low RPM issue I think this will be perfect!

Lito335 · 11-09-2020, 05:45 PM

Wonder if this happens with RKP SPORT X pipe. Can anyone chime in? Before i get this tune.
Thanks

DanMpower · 11-09-2020, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lito335

Wonder if this happens with RKP SPORT X pipe. Can anyone chime in? Before i get this tune.
Thanks

I'm pretty sure this issue only affects forward placement X-Pipes, the RKP Sport has the X in the OEM position so you should have no issues.

I ran an MS X-Pipe with HFCs which is pretty much the same as the RKP Sport with this tune and have zero issues, in fact, the car is super responsive in ANY RPM range with no hesitation.

Spoff_E90_M3 · 11-14-2020, 05:52 AM

Anyone have a new update?

strokemycocktus · 11-18-2020, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Anyone have a new update?

None for me, hopefully it will be developed some time. I'd love to have the issue 100% gone

tdott · 11-18-2020, 09:37 AM

For me the issue in low rpm higher gears is resolved, although mine was never as bad as others have said. But it does feel smoother for me.

The issue of launching the car has been much improved from how it was previously to any changes. Previously it felt like throttle was lifted then stomped on again at that rpm and was a real hinderance when launching the car at an autocross event.

I do still fee a bit of a bump during that range, it continues to accelerate just not 100% smoothly. My guess is that it is some type of change over, maybe vanos related since it feels sort of like vtech kicking in as it takes off and pulls strong after that rpm range. This issue isn't really felt in day to day driving (atleast for me since I'm not usually launching the car on the street). But it was most apparent for me during autocross events. I don't have any autocross events in the near future but i would like to test it out at an event to see how it feels.

So I would say it is mostly resolved to the point where its not really an issue anymore.

yoslow · 12-04-2020, 08:56 AM

Bump, has this been resolved?

gh0stE92M3 · 12-04-2020, 03:06 PM

He's sent a map revision out that's helped with the issue, it's not 100% gone. But there hasn't been any updates.

I switch To a different tune. And it's a night and day difference. No hesitation continuous power from the problem area. Feel smooth like stock but with better power delivery down low.

Spoff_E90_M3 · 12-05-2020, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoslow

Bump, has this been resolved?

Sent Alex an email earlier this week with no update for those of us waiting and not in the test group. I didn’t have time to be in the test group but want this issue to be resolved. I hope we will see something soon!

Alex@Alpine · 12-05-2020, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoslow

Bump, has this been resolved?

Sent Alex an email earlier this week with no update for those of us waiting and not in the test group. I didn’t have time to be in the test group but want this issue to be resolved. I hope we will see something soon!

We are close. We have 3 users now reporting 100% fixed.

I can open up 2 more spots for testing. Just a reminder, testing isn't a chance for you to try out something new. It is for active testing. Please only join if you are willing to test and report back within a couple days.

Joshbot007 · 12-10-2020, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

I will get to working on this, you guys are all on 91? Correct?

Sorry I am late to the party, this thread slipped under my radar. I am running 93oct tune and fuel exclusively. I have a full armytrix xpipe with out cats and rear section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoslow

Bump, has this been resolved?

Sent Alex an email earlier this week with no update for those of us waiting and not in the test group. I didn't have time to be in the test group but want this issue to be resolved. I hope we will see something soon!

We are close. We have 3 users now reporting 100% fixed.

I can open up 2 more spots for testing. Just a reminder, testing isn't a chance for you to try out something new. It is for active testing. Please only join if you are willing to test and report back within a couple days.

While I don't get to drive my car as much as I would like due to work, if you are in need of more testers I can find time to test and report my findings.

Thanks,
Josh

Koolsilver · 12-26-2020, 01:57 PM

Just wanted to hop in and say I am also affected by this. I have an X-pipe that also moved the cross over portion much closer to the engine. Glad to see it is being resolved!

dmlf · 12-27-2020, 12:23 PM

I'm now running the new update from Alex and the bogging issue is ~98% gone for me, I can floor down from 1500 rpm now.

Eeko · 01-06-2021, 10:20 AM

Hey Alex,

Just wondering if there was any progress on this front?

Thanks

thegarius · 01-06-2021, 03:02 PM

I am having the exact same issue. Running alpine stage 2 91 with a bimmerworld resonated x pipe.

Willing to do testing and report back.

94jedi · 01-06-2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmlf

I'm now running the new update from Alex and the bogging issue is ~98% gone for me, I can floor down from 1500 rpm now.

Any indication of what was changed, what the issues was?

TechE · 01-10-2021, 05:43 PM

Can anybody with a recent file comment on the associated rasp with the bog? Any reduction or elimination?

Spoff_E90_M3 · 02-28-2021, 06:39 AM

So I installed the final version this week and all of the bogging and other issues have gone away. It shifts at the right times, alway finding the right gear, will downshift quickly and pulls hard in any gear! Very pleased. Alex is the man!

Joshbot007 · 03-07-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoslow

Bump, has this been resolved?

Sent Alex an email earlier this week with no update for those of us waiting and not in the test group. I didn't have time to be in the test group but want this issue to be resolved. I hope we will see something soon!

We are close. We have 3 users now reporting 100% fixed.

I can open up 2 more spots for testing. Just a reminder, testing isn't a chance for you to try out something new. It is for active testing. Please only join if you are willing to test and report back within a couple days.

Any idea on a timeframe for when you will have completed updated tunes available for us to get rid of this issue?

11-09-2020, 12:00 PM	#70
Spoff_E90_M3 Track Rat at VIR 21 Rep 61 Posts Drives: '11 E90 M3 Silverstone Join Date: May 2016 Location: Charlottesville, VA iTrader: (0)	Confirmation on issue is only low RPMs I ran this solution at the track this past weekend and can confirm no issue at all at higher RPMs and the Bimmerworld X-pipe. If Alex can fix the low RPM issue I think this will be perfect!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-09-2020, 05:45 PM	#71
Lito335 Private First Class 110 Rep 143 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 comp Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (1)	Wonder if this happens with RKP SPORT X pipe. Can anyone chime in? Before i get this tune. Thanks
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-14-2020, 05:52 AM	#73
Spoff_E90_M3 Track Rat at VIR 21 Rep 61 Posts Drives: '11 E90 M3 Silverstone Join Date: May 2016 Location: Charlottesville, VA iTrader: (0)	Anyone have a new update?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-18-2020, 09:37 AM	#75
tdott Brigadier General 3943 Rep 3,988 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South FL / 6ix iTrader: (4)	For me the issue in low rpm higher gears is resolved, although mine was never as bad as others have said. But it does feel smoother for me. The issue of launching the car has been much improved from how it was previously to any changes. Previously it felt like throttle was lifted then stomped on again at that rpm and was a real hinderance when launching the car at an autocross event. I do still fee a bit of a bump during that range, it continues to accelerate just not 100% smoothly. My guess is that it is some type of change over, maybe vanos related since it feels sort of like vtech kicking in as it takes off and pulls strong after that rpm range. This issue isn't really felt in day to day driving (atleast for me since I'm not usually launching the car on the street). But it was most apparent for me during autocross events. I don't have any autocross events in the near future but i would like to test it out at an event to see how it feels. So I would say it is mostly resolved to the point where its not really an issue anymore. __________________ N/A S65 Headers Before/After Dyno Results
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12-04-2020, 08:56 AM	#76
yoslow Private First Class 56 Rep 110 Posts Drives: SSII E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Bump, has this been resolved?
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12-04-2020, 03:06 PM	#77
gh0stE92M3 Second Lieutenant 159 Rep 210 Posts Drives: BMW E92 M3 Join Date: May 2020 Location: California iTrader: (1)	He's sent a map revision out that's helped with the issue, it's not 100% gone. But there hasn't been any updates. I switch To a different tune. And it's a night and day difference. No hesitation continuous power from the problem area. Feel smooth like stock but with better power delivery down low.
	Appreciate 1 94jedi829.00 Quote

12-26-2020, 01:57 PM	#81
Koolsilver Private First Class 65 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sacramento iTrader: (2)	Just wanted to hop in and say I am also affected by this. I have an X-pipe that also moved the cross over portion much closer to the engine. Glad to see it is being resolved!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-27-2020, 12:23 PM	#82
dmlf New Member 6 Rep 19 Posts Drives: e92 m3 + Many saabs Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: France iTrader: (0)	I'm now running the new update from Alex and the bogging issue is ~98% gone for me, I can floor down from 1500 rpm now.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-06-2021, 10:20 AM	#83
Eeko New Member 20 Rep 10 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Sydney NSW Australia iTrader: (0)	Hey Alex, Just wondering if there was any progress on this front? Thanks
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01-06-2021, 03:02 PM	#84
thegarius Private 15 Rep 90 Posts Drives: 2010 M3 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: San Francisco, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [0.00]	I am having the exact same issue. Running alpine stage 2 91 with a bimmerworld resonated x pipe. Willing to do testing and report back.
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01-10-2021, 05:43 PM	#86
TechE Private First Class 90 Rep 186 Posts Drives: E90 M3, U11 X1 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Germany iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Can anybody with a recent file comment on the associated rasp with the bog? Any reduction or elimination?
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02-28-2021, 06:39 AM	#87
Spoff_E90_M3 Track Rat at VIR 21 Rep 61 Posts Drives: '11 E90 M3 Silverstone Join Date: May 2016 Location: Charlottesville, VA iTrader: (0)	Installed final version and WOW! So I installed the final version this week and all of the bogging and other issues have gone away. It shifts at the right times, alway finding the right gear, will downshift quickly and pulls hard in any gear! Very pleased. Alex is the man!
	Appreciate 2 Alex@Alpine1303.00 Mimmer57.00 Quote