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03-20-2018, 07:18 AM | #45 | |
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Disagree with the Camaro SS. If it were so wonderful I would have seen at least one fast one at the track so far. Haven't. I'm pretty confident that if GM cannot build their {2015} halo car, a Vette C7 Z51 that won't overheat at the track running with street tires, well then I'll steer clear of anything they make. [possible exception in the Vette GS] Disagree with the Evora and 911. I've instructed in an Evora and would never, ever buy a car with an engine from a minivan. I'm not sure where the high end drivers cars are anymore. Maybe McLaren? Regardless I"m not interested There are many cars that, according to Excel, should stomp on the E9X at the track but do not. M3's in the top run groups are consistently in the pointy end of that run group.
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03-20-2018, 10:21 AM | #46 | |
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03-20-2018, 10:23 AM | #47 | |
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03-20-2018, 12:38 PM | #48 | |
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The Camaro SS 1LE laid down a 1:20.67 lap, 3.3 seconds quicker (against a Mutstang GT). In other words, these two cars wouldn’t be allowed to race together. Different class doesn’t cover it. The list of cars the Camaro went faster than should embarrass some OEMs: Porsche Cayman GT4, 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus, Ferrari 458 Italia. I mean, come on! To put it bluntly, the Camaro is in another league, with legitimate supercars. A 2015 GT-R NISMO held the Streets record—1:19.07—meaning the gulf between the quickest car ever lapped at the track and the Chevy (1.6 seconds) was less than half the gulf between our two competitors (3.3 seconds). But then we got bored at lunch and Randy ran a lap in a Lamborghini Huracán Performonte. Result: new champ, at 1:18.73—making the Camaro the sixth-fastest car around Streets. Yet the Chevy still is less than 2 seconds off the pace of a hypercar costing six times as much. Dang. The winner of this round? The Chevrolet Camaro 1LE. In my mind, it’s not close. Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car. This $46,000 miracle punches so far above its weight that I’m in danger of saying weird things that could easily be taken out of context. Such as, if I were an engineer at BMW or even Porsche, I’d be clearing off my drawing boards. |
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03-20-2018, 12:40 PM | #49 | |
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03-20-2018, 12:48 PM | #50 |
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The 400. Student ended up so unhappy he sold it before finishing the track season. Now has a GT4
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03-20-2018, 12:53 PM | #51 |
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03-20-2018, 02:51 PM | #52 | |
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03-20-2018, 02:56 PM | #53 | |
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The irony of this is that when the E92 was announced as having a V8, people lost their shit. "OMG it's just a big heavy muscle car now" "Inline-6s are the ultimate, no one would ever want a V8" "Dual clutch? OMG they just want to sell these to morons who aren't purists and can't drive a manual" And yet here we are 10 years later calling it the best M3 ever.
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03-20-2018, 02:59 PM | #54 | |
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You're thinking of the Z06 which is notorious for heat soak at the track, especially when equipped with the 8AT. The regular Stingray and Grand Sport will happily hum along on the track until they run out of gas. In fact, the chief Corvette engineer flat-out admitted that they test the cars for that exact scenario because they know their customers will be doing just that. He went into great detail on the Corvette Forums about what the track testing regimen is. I'll be watching the ZR1 closely since GM sunk considerable R&D into ensuring it runs cooler.
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03-20-2018, 03:06 PM | #55 |
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03-20-2018, 03:21 PM | #56 | |
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03-20-2018, 03:44 PM | #57 |
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03-20-2018, 04:16 PM | #58 | |
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Was thinking of getting one instead of the E90 for the track. Read plenty of stories of people overheating them with stock tires. Car and Driver overheated theirs twice -wait for it- on a mountain road I suppose the GS is a different story as it has Z06 cooling an regular Vette power
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03-20-2018, 05:49 PM | #59 | |
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My face hurting from laughing.
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03-21-2018, 09:55 AM | #61 | |
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Odd, I don't see complaints of this on the Corvette Forums and I've never seen a C7 Corvette overheat at a track day.
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03-22-2018, 11:25 AM | #62 | |
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I've seen this consistently even outside the BMW CCA events - I have driven with MVP tracktime, LAPS Inc, GPS Tracktime, Northwoods Shelby, PCA - and it's always the same story. There are some platforms that just do it right for the track and M3 is one of them. Anyone who has enough years of experience to trend this can speak to the truth of it. One thing to understand is that the cars you read about in magazines that are beating M3s around the track are all being driven by professional drivers. It's very important to know that your average Camaro or Mustang track pack needs a very skilled driver to compete with an M3. Because the American muscle cars are still a handful and make concessions in certain ways. There is a difference between a car that you can put down good lap times with and one that you can put down good lap times with that is neutral and balanced to drive. Someone driving cars that supposedly beat M3s all over the place is usually an amateur driver (like most HDPEs) and are going to struggle to control the car enough to compete with the BMW. And yes, the new Miata is awesome for an affordable "new" drivers car. That thing ticks so many boxes the right way.
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03-22-2018, 12:29 PM | #63 | |
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It's very consistent. Most of the time I run with PCA so it isn't like I'm all day with BMWCCA and think they're really fast. Any M3 in a black run group at PCA is among the fastest cars there. M3s have several key advantages which make up the difference -They come from the factory with mellow suspension/tires BMW does not install granite suspension in their M3s. These are meant to balance daily driving with sportiness The tire compounds and sizes are completely normal for daily driving. No 285/305 PSC2-type tires like others -They are extremely reliable at the track People think Porsches/whatever are reliable at the track. They are not. What is reliable is an M3. Year in, year out. GT3's getting rebuilt at 50k miles? Check. M3 with 170k miles, no rebuilds, getting double-duty tracked? Check -Their weak points are easily upgraded 3k will net you a front BBK which can easily go toe to toe with any Porsche brake -They are easy and communicative to drive This is a huge point. I guess it's the only thing that can explain how M3s can easily crush cars that are more modded and 'better'. So much talk of other cars being so much better, but you go to an AER race and 80% of the cars are BMWs. Even the crappiest BMW ever built, the E36M3 which was castrated for the US market, is still able to spank modern 'track prepped cars' without difficulty. |
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03-22-2018, 11:41 PM | #64 | |
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Well said. I just don't see M3s or Porsches suffering mechanical breakdowns or early retirements at track days. They're ready to go from the factory.
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03-24-2018, 04:34 PM | #65 |
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I was about to pull the trigger about a while ago on an E92 ZCP M3 until I saw the F80 ZCP package. The F80 to me felt stronger and lighter. The F80 is still M quality built and the engine’s pull is effortless. Any M3 generation in my book is a winner anyways.
Here is a video that discusses more of what they did with the F80 M3. https://youtu.be/8CJ6IwVzV-A |
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03-24-2018, 06:55 PM | #66 | |
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