Fall Line DCT Pan?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Scraping is overrated.

Haha - not when it's an oil pan!

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by slicer

I currently have the SLON pan on my car and have had good results with it other than clearance issues (it has scraped the ground), and some slight seeping at the sealing area.

SLON pan weeping already? That’s not okay.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by wyatth

SLON pan weeping already? That’s not okay.

In the slon pan, any seeping is due to either incorrect installation or an impact which broke the seal. The slon pan does not have a seal other than the loctite one.

[aus]

Originally Posted by 911r

My DCT pan is leaking a decent amount, and I'm planning on having it serviced ASAP. Malek mentioned this wouldn't come in handy on a car that isn't regularly tracked — what do you think? Might just go ahead and throw one in my car anyways. I'm a sucker for well designed products.

Just make sure it's not the top of the DCT that's actually leaking.
BMW dealership changed my pan under warranty but it kept leaking;
Good thing I had an extended warranty to pull the DCT and change the top seal. That fixed the leak.
.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

In the slon pan, any seeping is due to either incorrect installation or an impact which broke the seal. The slon pan does not have a seal other than the loctite one.

Exactly. It only has a Loctite seal which is sub-par. I think fall-line has a superior seal.

[dogbone]

hehe ok hang on a sec-----with all of these aftermarket pans, we are talking about a CNC-machined piece of aluminum that is screwed into the transmission by 14 screws. If the pan takes an impact that causes the pan to leak, it won't be because the gasket maker failed. It would be because the pan is ruined. A rubber seal won't help with that. My Slon pan has taken at least one solid shot that marred up several cooling fins. The pan is still sitting there with no leaks after a couple years. I think if a CNC-machined aluminum pan is leaking with a liquid gasket maker, the installation was not done correctly.

Liquid gasket makers are not a new concept. This stuff has been around for a lonnnng time.

I would say that the installation procedure is important with a liquid gasket maker. But isn't proper installation important for all parts on a car? If you don't tighten nuts and bolts to the proper spec, wheels can fall off, control arms can detach, fluids can leak, etc. Does that make nuts and bolts sub par??

I mean c'mon, the rubber seal on the stock DCT pan is the crappiest thing ever. That thing weeps like it lost its dog......

[SYT_Shadow]

years after the Slon one being on the market these other solutions appear and still haven't included a spacer to avoid starvation.

If you're going to upgrade your DCT pan you might as well go all the way and get the solution that's been tracked extensively --> SLON

[///Mobbin]

I just wanted to throw this out there as food for thought. I've owned 3 DCT e9x m3's now and began experiencing some occasional clunky shifting on my 2nd car. I had a visible leak around my lower pan and replaced the lower pan with a new lower pan and a viton seal($$). The shop doing the work also replaced the filter/filters and put in fresh OE DCT fluid. After all that the clunking was totally gone so I went ahead and loaded the full-GTS DCT tune (using instructions here and version information found here if anyone is interested). Granted I was only running on re-71r's and Cup 2's at the time but I never had another DCT issue on or off track with that car and that was even with the stock DCT cooler.

My current car has the do88 cooler, OE pan (not leaking last I checked), and even original filters and fluid, with the original fluid just topped off, same GTS DCT tune, and it's been flawless as well, both on and off track.

My theory is simply that the leaking is more the issue and when folks are experiencing clunkiness or overheating, perhaps they are just low on fluid?

Keep in mind that our DCT fluid can leak from many locations: LINK.

and also that the DCT refill procedure is fairly complex: LINK and LINK.

There are surely some other benefits for the replacement lower pans such as the increased fluid volume, less leakage prone (or no leakage at all), shedding heat more quickly, baffling, etc., but my general thinking is that for folks on 100tw or higher tires (what I have experience with) the solution may simply be to fix your leaks as they arise and top off the fluid if you've had a leak.

I do get the idea of trying to proactively prevent future leaks also and all that said I'd probably try for my OE-pan + viton seal fix or go for a SLON pan if I had another leaking lower pan. If I had a side or top leak, well that just sucks when that happens

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

years after the Slon one being on the market these other solutions appear and still haven't included a spacer to avoid starvation.

If you're going to upgrade your DCT pan you might as well go all the way and get the solution that's been tracked extensively --> SLON

I don't see the SLON as superior in all cases, just another approach. The SLON adds more volume if that's a priority, but doing so causes it to potentially scrape, and because of that volume/shape, the spacer makes beautiful sense. The Fall Line adds ~half of the additional capacity which prevents scraping and negating the need for a spacer. The pan under the pickup is no lower than stock, so there's no room/need for a spacer.

Personally, I will take extra clearance over an extra .5L. But for a real track car, SLON may be the way to go (also higher baffling).

[slicer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

years after the Slon one being on the market these other solutions appear and still haven't included a spacer to avoid starvation.

If you're going to upgrade your DCT pan you might as well go all the way and get the solution that's been tracked extensively --> SLON

Fall Line has been making and using this same pan design far before SLON ever existed. I assume you are familiar with Fall Line but if not their resume is impressive. I'm not aware of another shop with more race experience with the e9x platform. Pro level stuff. They have numerous parts that they have been building for years that have not been released to the public; this is one of them. I would bet that the fall line version has been tested, tracked and raced at a far more frequent and higher level than SLON. You may have missed in my post that the Fall Line pan isn't tapered to a shallower depth at the pickup point. There's not a reason to extend the pickup with this design.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by dogbone

hehe ok hang on a sec-----with all of these aftermarket pans, we are talking about a CNC-machined piece of aluminum that is screwed into the transmission by 14 screws. If the pan takes an impact that causes the pan to leak, it won't be because the gasket maker failed. It would be because the pan is ruined. A rubber seal won't help with that. My Slon pan has taken at least one solid shot that marred up several cooling fins. The pan is still sitting there with no leaks after a couple years. I think if a CNC-machined aluminum pan is leaking with a liquid gasket maker, the installation was not done correctly.

Liquid gasket makers are not a new concept. This stuff has been around for a lonnnng time.

I would say that the installation procedure is important with a liquid gasket maker. But isn't proper installation important for all parts on a car? If you don't tighten nuts and bolts to the proper spec, wheels can fall off, control arms can detach, fluids can leak, etc. Does that make nuts and bolts sub par??

I mean c'mon, the rubber seal on the stock DCT pan is the crappiest thing ever. That thing weeps like it lost its dog......

Isn't that due to the fact that the OE pan is plastic and warps?

[wyatth]

^ I think that's a probable cause, but we can't be sure if it's due to the pan or gasket. We don't have enough data on viton gaskets with plastic pans.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by slicer

Isn't that due to the fact that the OE pan is plastic and warps?

The OEM plastic pan is probably one of the weakest points on the car if you ask me. It seems to leak for quite a lot of people. Why exactly it leaks is beyond my pay grade. You’d think 14 screws and a rubber seal would do the job, but I guess it doesn’t.

As a consumer, I’m glad more choices keep showing up for our platform. Fall-Line’s product definitely has some unique characteristics with it’s shape, options for extra cooling and rubber seal. Does it motivate me to switch from what I have? No, I’m happy with what I have. But it’s great that someone considering a DCT pan has a new choice to consider.

[wyatth]

Maybe OT for this thread/forum but a question for you guys since this is the only open FL pan thread.
I am getting ready for a DCT service (filters, fluid, and new pan). My car is just a weekend fun car for the canyons in CA, no track time. Admittedly I probably don't need any billet pan, but damn if these aren't tempting anyway for their craftsmanship and engineering. I also plan to keep the car for a long time, so I don't really like the idea of just putting on a new shitty OE plastic pan when a proper solution/upgrade is available. I think for me it's OE or FL (I don't want to compromise clearance, and don't need the benefits Slon offers over FL). What would you guys do?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by slicer

Fall Line has been making and using this same pan design far before SLON ever existed. I assume you are familiar with Fall Line but if not their resume is impressive. I'm not aware of another shop with more race experience with the e9x platform. Pro level stuff. They have numerous parts that they have been building for years that have not been released to the public; this is one of them. I would bet that the fall line version has been tested, tracked and raced at a far more frequent and higher level than SLON. You may have missed in my post that the Fall Line pan isn't tapered to a shallower depth at the pickup point. There's not a reason to extend the pickup with this design.

I'm aware of Fall Line, but that doesn't mean they are somehow above scrutiny.

If their products were 'tracked and raced at a higher level than SLON' then maybe they would have built a pan like SLON's, with more baffling, more volume and a pickup spacer.

We have some pretty fast people in this forum... who are running the SLON pan.
When someone shows up on the West Coast who is a few seconds faster than Mr Bone and running the Fall Line pan on their DCT without issues then I'll be a little inclined to believe it works, until then it appears to be worse for hard driving.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Maybe OT for this thread/forum but a question for you guys since this is the only open FL pan thread.
I am getting ready for a DCT service (filters, fluid, and new pan). My car is just a weekend fun car for the canyons in CA, no track time. Admittedly I probably don't need any billet pan, but damn if these aren't tempting anyway for their craftsmanship and engineering. I also plan to keep the car for a long time, so I don't really like the idea of just putting on a new shitty OE plastic pan when a proper solution/upgrade is available. I think for me it's OE or FL (I don't want to compromise clearance, and don't need the benefits Slon offers over FL). What would you guys do?

In that case I'd possibly get the fall line, although it still uses a rubber seal which I'll never like. Hopefully it's a viton seal so it doesn't die on its own like the OEM seal.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm aware of Fall Line, but that doesn't mean they are somehow above scrutiny.

If their products were 'tracked and raced at a higher level than SLON' then maybe they would have built a pan like SLON's, with more baffling, more volume and a pickup spacer.

We have some pretty fast people in this forum... who are running the SLON pan.
When someone shows up on the West Coast who is a few seconds faster than Mr Bone and running the Fall Line pan on their DCT without issues then I'll be a little inclined to believe it works, until then it appears to be worse for hard driving.

You're talking to a brick wall here SYT. It's become pretty clear to me in my short time on this forum if Slicer sells the product it is the Bible and the all other competitors are inferior and you're not going to change his mind...this isn't the first time I've seen it.

I am interested in the comparison of the two designs though and agree the additional pickup is something to think about. My car gets tracked in 100 degree+ ambient temps frequently and I haven't yet experienced any terrible DCT overheating from it, only the occasional slower shift response, but in the future as part of the next DCT service a pan is something I'm going to consider.
If I still drove my car daily, I would probably do the Fall-Line pan as the extra ground clearance is something to consider on pot-hole filled Dallas roads, but in a mostly-track use case that I have my car in now I would also lean towards the SLON pan for the reasons stated above as well.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

You're talking to a brick wall here SYT. It's become pretty clear to me in my short time on this forum if Slicer sells the product it is the Bible and the all other competitors are inferior and you're not going to change his mind...this isn't the first time I've seen it.

I am interested in the comparison of the two designs though and agree the additional pickup is something to think about. My car gets tracked in 100 degree+ ambient temps frequently and I haven't yet experienced any terrible DCT overheating from it, only the occasional slower shift response, but in the future as part of the next DCT service a pan is something I'm going to consider.
If I still drove my car daily, I would probably do the Fall-Line pan as the extra ground clearance is something to consider on pot-hole filled Dallas roads, but in a mostly-track use case that I have my car in now I would also lean towards the SLON pan for the reasons stated above as well.

I had no idea Slicer sold the FL stuff.

The SLON pan still fits under the felt cover so it's not like the Gintani or SSP one which won't accept the cover.

dogbone has been tracking his for a long time and is pretty happy with it.
I've had the SLON two seasons as well but mine are not full racecars. What is surprising is that the CS shows a lot of lag in downshifts once the DCT is hot despite having a newer DCT which should be better, whereas the E90 stroker (that has SLON) shows no hesitation. As soon as my CS is out of warranty it's also getting the SLON pan.

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

In that case I'd possibly get the fall line, although it still uses a rubber seal which I'll never like. Hopefully it's a viton seal so it doesn't die on its own like the OEM seal.

Cheers, thanks Danny. That's where I'm leaning because the FL does have a viton o-ring. For most in this thread, the Slon pan seems like the right choice. I just want something that should hold up better and keep my DCT happy without compromise versus OE.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm aware of Fall Line, but that doesn't mean they are somehow above scrutiny.

If their products were 'tracked and raced at a higher level than SLON' then maybe they would have built a pan like SLON's, with more baffling, more volume and a pickup spacer.

We have some pretty fast people in this forum... who are running the SLON pan.
When someone shows up on the West Coast who is a few seconds faster than Mr Bone and running the Fall Line pan on their DCT without issues then I'll be a little inclined to believe it works, until then it appears to be worse for hard driving.

Definitely have some fast people on the forum. Many faster than myself. My point on all of this was not to say that SLON makes a horrible pan. Read what I wrote - I brought up a couple of negatives about the pan but overall I think it's a good product. I bought one and still have it on my car after all! My point was more about the fact that Fall-Line is a great alternative (despite the synopsis offered by others). Fall-Line has tested their product in more harsh conditions than the 20 to 30 minute sessions we all run on track. They currently and historically support race teams who utilize this same pan. Your point is that SLON is the best because a few DE guys (like myself) on the forum use it. I'm not convinced.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

In that case I'd possibly get the fall line, although it still uses a rubber seal which I'll never like. Hopefully it's a viton seal so it doesn't die on its own like the OEM seal.

It is Viton.

Originally Posted by Kelse92

You're talking to a brick wall here SYT. It's become pretty clear to me in my short time on this forum if Slicer sells the product it is the Bible and the all other competitors are inferior and you're not going to change his mind...this isn't the first time I've seen it.

I am interested in the comparison of the two designs though and agree the additional pickup is something to think about. My car gets tracked in 100 degree+ ambient temps frequently and I haven't yet experienced any terrible DCT overheating from it, only the occasional slower shift response, but in the future as part of the next DCT service a pan is something I'm going to consider.
If I still drove my car daily, I would probably do the Fall-Line pan as the extra ground clearance is something to consider on pot-hole filled Dallas roads, but in a mostly-track use case that I have my car in now I would also lean towards the SLON pan for the reasons stated above as well.

It is true that I sell Fall Line; among other parts. It's also true that I sell parts that I believe in and personally test myself, and can be hard headed when I believe in something. I have passion for what I do and refuse to sell stuff that I wouldn't put on my own car. That includes NOT running or selling popular China made replica wheels on track and imported wheel studs with sub-par strength. Not sure what else you are referring to in your statement. I stand by what I say on those topics. Keep in mind that I could be selling 100000x's more product if I didn't have this standard. It's far easier to sell the cheap stuff. If this was all about money for me I would sell whatever sells, without regard for my principals.

With respect to Fall Line - I have and sell alternatives to their parts. SPL, Ground Control, etc. However since moving back to the midwest, I have had the opportunity to speak with them in more detail, better understand what they do, see their facility, see their work, and their knowledge is second to none. I have been to many of the shops in CA or seen their builds on track. This Fall-Line stuff is next level. The only builds that I have seen which are comparable is the work done by TJ / Trinity. But even he would admit that he has limitations (Fall Line has a full machine shop, large team, extensive pro-race history and budget, etc).

I didn't start this thread, I simply added to it. There are a few guys here who are strongly in support of SLON. I'm here offering counter points, and details to help educate. I have been contributing to this forum and worked on the e9x platform for over 10 years. I have done my time. You don't have to listen to my opinion but I take offense to the implication that I am influenced by sales. It's the opposite. My sales are influenced by what I believe, test, and know to be quality. This at the cost of selling far less. This is a passion project for me and I have other sources of income. If I were relying on this solely for survival I would be more likely to compromise my principals for the sake of sales - like I see so many companies do.

[dparm]

Glad to hear you got a tour of Fall-Line. I used to get my Corvette serviced there before I moved. Great guys and they definitely know what they're doing.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by dparm

Glad to hear you got a tour of Fall-Line. I used to get my Corvette serviced there before I moved. Great guys and they definitely know what they're doing.

Truth. They have really impressed me!