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09-06-2019, 09:31 AM | #1145 | |
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Keep in mind there's no wait period for classing new cars. In the 2015 test, the Mustang basically tied the M3's times. Since then, the Mustang has gotten better in every way, and this year the Bullit came out. Based on the results of the 2015 test, I can't see how the Bullit can't already be the fastest car in the class, but no one's brought one out yet. Even if it isn't, Chevy or Ford could release a faster version at any time and obsolete the M3 in a flash.
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09-06-2019, 09:58 AM | #1146 |
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Jeremy's car is an E90. He was 5th a couple years ago too.
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..: 2004 E46 M3 Coupe 6MT CB/B
..: 2011.5 E90 M3 Sedan 6MT ZCP Slicktop JB/Speed Cloth ::: >E90 ZCP Build Thread Gone but not forgotten: 2011.5 E90 M3 ZCP DCT, 2007 E92 335i, 2006 E90 325i, 1998 E36 M3, 1999 E36 323is |
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09-06-2019, 10:33 AM | #1147 | |
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Still makes me hesitant to buy an E9x for FS, as the possibility of it only being in FS for one more year (2020) isn't ideal. I wonder what changes will be open for comments in 2020 (not the off season!). |
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09-06-2019, 12:22 PM | #1148 | ||
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09-06-2019, 08:24 PM | #1150 |
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It was awesome to listen to and follow today, and co-driver Tyler made it into in the trophies too
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09-07-2019, 10:13 AM | #1151 | |
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Sold 2011.5 E92 M3 ZCP.
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09-08-2019, 08:43 AM | #1152 | |
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Had some challenges leading up to the event (found a leaking rear shock Saturday night, missed the transport so I put the “street” in ST and drive the car out from CA), but ultimately everything worked out. Bought a set of the 265 Yokos from Jake Namer after his FS runs were done Wednesday. Got a single run in on the test and tune course that night which was inconclusive, so I just made a good plan Thursday morning and tried to come out clean and strong early. That worked out well as I stood on first runs both days - I found it difficult to find time on the Yokos. I think as a single driver I could get them cold enough between runs to get back to the magic but as a 2-driver on hot days with little 265s it was tough. All you have to do is look at the raw times between me and STX to know that I left plenty out there. I also discovered at the shakedown event at crows a couple weeks prior, that the limited slip diff in my car is not really working as well as it used to. Strange, it only has 112k miles on it! I’ll fix that over the winter, and I’m really thinking about going to ESP next year to give Jeff a run for his money in the camaro. And by “go ESP” I mean bolt Hoosiers on to the STU car. Jeff was exactly 2s/day faster than me so I think I’ll have to find a little more time than just the Hoosiers. I’m definitely of the opinion that all these FS M3’s should go to STU where you get more camber, more wheel, more power and more fun! The car can definitely compete at the top of the class. It would be great to see a few more out there next year.
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09-08-2019, 07:33 PM | #1153 |
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My fastest raw and clean runs from nationals. Dug myself into a hole with mistakes on my first two runs on each side, and forced myself to get a decent clean run on the third run. I'm curious how things would have turned out had I managed my strategy differently, by ensuring I got a clean run 1 rather than going hyper aggressive right off the bat. The car felt great even on the "wrong" tire (285f 275r REs), and I feel that minus the mistakes I made I still had good pace and could have been closer to the leader. It's something I'll have to work on next year, along with many other things I learned from my first time out there. |
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09-09-2019, 02:11 AM | #1154 | |
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And I’m really surprised you were running the 265 Yoko’s. When I saw in the results that you had them I was wondering what size you ended up with, but sounds like the Stones are still the better option?
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09-18-2019, 09:01 AM | #1155 |
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Sorry for the thread jack, but it seems relevant, and expect others are like me.
I started Auto-x'ing seriously this year, I have a 92 C4 Vette that came fairly built (383 strocker/suspension/315s square/ 450hp/ etc). I have been running CAM-S, and have a slight lead in the points series going into the last event this weekend. Anyways, I always knew that if I liked it, I would have to get a car that was more suitable for auto-x. The C4 is great, but it will never compete with C7 Z06s/GS. I figured that if I sold the vette and my DD Fusion electric (kids are out of rear facing car seats), I could get 1 car to do it all. I have considered the Camaro turbo 4 for DS, but dropping that much power seems hard, and compared to the Type R and Focus RS, seems like an uphill road to travel. I would do a Type R, but the looks are atrocious, and I don't think I can convince my wife to let me spend 35k on a toy (rather I think I would be buried in a shallow grave for asking). I was at the point of going for a Civic SI or even a hatch sport, they did well in GS and HS, and would be good family cars. But going from good RWD HP to low FWD sounds miserable. Enter the E90 M3. I have always liked BMW's, but since I do 99% of the work on my own cars, seeing peoples comments of "you have to have a special tool that only the dealer has" has ruled them out to me. Reading up in here, I see the crank bearings could be an issue (is there any warning, like excessive bottom end noise?), then simple stuff like lights, idle valve, etc etc. Overall, this seems like one of the most reliable BMWs I have heard about. So the questions, focusing on autocross FS: 1) is a 4-door sedan as competitive as the 2-door coupe? Obviously the sedan would make the better family car 2) Is the auto/DSG good, or do you need the manual for autocross? I would much rather have the manual, but since the other 99.5% of the time its shuffling kids in traffic, and there seems to be way more autos, it could be acceptable 3) is the 2011 competition (ZCP?) package required, if the plan would be to do shocks (sach/JRZ/Penske). From my limited research it seems like its suspension tuning and bigger wheels, which would be good, but only 1/2" so not a huge advantage. 4) Assuming rod bearings would be done, and new shocks remove the need for the ZCP package, are the 2011-13 cars really better then the early cars? My personal goal is to make it to nationals next year and not embarrass myself. Looking at Pax times, the FS cars (averaging the 3 top finishers in each of the stock class's), had the 3rd most favorable PAX time (AS/ES/FS/DS/BS/CS), which helps on a local level. Last edited by Rexracer; 09-18-2019 at 09:31 AM.. |
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09-18-2019, 09:53 AM | #1156 | ||
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2) The DCT is great and isn't a disadvantage 3) Not necessarily required but the ZCP package helps and the DSC shocks that come with it are great, no need to replace them. It's worth finding a ZCP model, especially since we all end up trying to cram a wide front tire on the 9" front wheel. At the end of the day you'll wish you found a ZCP if you end up not getting one. 4) Get a 2011-13 ZCP and save the need for spending money on shocks. |
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09-18-2019, 10:57 AM | #1157 | ||||
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Thomas has more credibility than I do considering that I've never run a national-level event in my car, but I'll take a swing at these anyway.
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Other than the existence of the ZCP package, I'm not aware of any difference between the early and late cars that would have any impact on performance. The rod bearing material was apparently changed in 2011, which made it impossible to gauge rod bearing wear via oil analysis, if that's important to you.
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09-18-2019, 10:59 AM | #1158 | |
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Remember, you can't go by BMWNA official posted numbers since by law they have to provide a number that has all options expected on the average car; hence BMWNA shows the sedan weight with a sunroof and fold down seats while the coupe weight is quoted with the carbon fiber roof. Hence if you use those official numbers subtract something like 50+ lbs for the two options. In the EU brochure, the difference is specified as 25kg (55 lbs) -- not sure of what options spec that is for each though.
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09-18-2019, 11:12 AM | #1159 |
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It's basically 50lb. Mine is about as light as they get (slicktop single hump 6MT), and was ~3500 on light fuel without driver in AS trim with light wheels, exhaust. That's about 50lb heavier than the lightest E92's. Scale variation aside, obviously. Never weighed on the same day in same configuration as an E92, grain of salt, yada
The weight is also carried slightly higher. It's a disadvantage, but not a big one. An E90 trophied this year at nats IIRC. You will miss the extra wheel width of the ZCP package and without a proper package conversion, they are not legal. If you're autocrossing locally, I doubt anybody will care much, but just swapping wheels is not enough for legality. With the street tires, I doubt the ZCP package is worth less than half a second on a longish national level course, that's a lot more wheel support up front on a car that needs it desperately, lower, can get more camber because it's lower, it's not insignificant. I've never tested obviously personally though, so maybe the ZCP pack really is just a button that makes the car worse? I doubt it though. Maybe true back before hoosiers got the ban hammer and the wheel diamater rule, when you'd have been stuck with 19's and a narrower front Hoosier, but not now that you can go to the 18's and the tires we use need more help from the car to work right The E90M ZCP with slicktop is going to be sought after configuration pretty much forever, if you can find one, and you take care of it and don't drive it too much, I don't see how you'd lose much money on one. But if you're pinching pennies, a plain old '08 with high miles and no sunroof is going to be close, and it's easier to justify taking one of those to STU! See, saving you money already. ZCP is springs, shocks/struts, bumpstops are different, programming of EDC shocks and stability control is different, and there are probably a few other bits the internet/us just don't know about which don't have the same PN. YOu'll still need to find a 2011 if you want to use the ZCP wheel width, even if it's not a ZCP. At that point you'll be paying a premium to the early cars anyway, so why not just get a ZCP? All of this goes out the window if you plan to run in STU. Get the cheapest, best-maintained, best condition car you can find (which will probably be an '08 because most common model year and oldest) with the lowest options you can stomach, and go git some. Freedom from the stock class ruleset is a kind of freedom I would not give back
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09-18-2019, 11:37 AM | #1160 | |
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Also, in response to e90 vs e92 question, I think it won't matter that hugely if finding a lighter optioned one (slicktop no idrive), didn't an e90 end up in the trophies this year? I would say go for it! EDIT: 2011 e90 was 7th, haven't looked if any of the others above it were sedans. I'm betting the '11 is a ZCP car.
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#ladydriven Heavy-spec M3 // KW Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // OMP Seats // Too Many Apex Wheels // Stoptech ST-60 // Cobalt Friction brake pads Last edited by Kelse92; 09-18-2019 at 06:00 PM.. |
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09-18-2019, 12:18 PM | #1161 | ||||||
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09-18-2019, 12:22 PM | #1162 | ||
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Further confounding things is the fact that Motor Trend tested two M3s in 2008: a DCT coupe with a sunroof, and a manual sedan (of unclear sunroof status). They weighed the coupe at 3,678 lbs.; the sedan came in at 3,652. So .
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09-18-2019, 01:05 PM | #1163 |
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DCT is a 20kg penalty. Weight penalty goes up on the new turbo cars because they went to a much lighter manual - the manual in the E9x is a porker. Second the above about DCT- it’s a magical combo with the S65. If I ever blow out a knee/ankle and can’t drive stick, I won’t be that sad
Moonroof is 30sh up high on the sedan, more like 50 for coupe because carbon roof vs steel skin with roof cartridge. Also, helmet room! Iiirc the manual e92 zcp 2013 car and driver tested was also the lightest at a hair under 3600 You could get no sunroof on the sedan from launch - mine is a slicktop March 2008 build. Most early allocations were built to the hilt though, and then the financial crisis happened, so no sunroof cars are pretty rare on e90’s, like what 1500 of them total for the whole runnin NA? Something around there.
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09-18-2019, 02:19 PM | #1164 |
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Thanks all for the responses.
Sounds like 4 door isnt to big of a deal, and a HUGE deal for making it more family friendly, so well worth even the 100lbs penalty. Doing PRO's isnt a priority, but would likely end up doing it each year. How reliable are the DCT? I am use to performance auto's having short life spans. ZCP - So to be competitive at nationals you don't automatically have to swap to high quality shocks, the ZCP are that good? |
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09-18-2019, 02:48 PM | #1165 |
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Reliable if you don’t let them leak. They have plastic pans and those warp and leak and if fluid gets low enough they can break. Otherwise they seem pretty unkillable near stock power. For heavy track use they need some cooling help but so does the whole car
The manuals are pretty bulletproof too. Mine is on the stock clutch at 122k miles and it’s been absolutely brutalized during its life. I don’t think anybody has won in the m3 on aftermarket dumpers yet Except mayfield obviously
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09-18-2019, 05:02 PM | #1166 |
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The DCT is quite stout and very under-utilized on the E92. The transmission is basically carried over to the F8x turbo M3's with twice the torque and even there its very strong. Mine has ~112k miles on it and the last 40k have been track, autocross, and generally enthusiast driven. Zero issues other than having to fix a small leak.
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