Considering 2010 M6, Trading in M3

[areyouamac]

So, this came on the market: https://www.carmax.com/car/16674930 and I would love to pull the trigger.

2010 M6
VIN: WBSEH9C56ACY25169
Color: Black / Grey
Price: $32000
Miles: 56K

Warranty: 60 Months | 125K Miles | $7100 | $300 Deductible
If Engine Blows, they will replace w/ $300 Deductible (no max/cap of expense or FMV)
Basically:
If it breaks: it's covered under warranty
Wear and tear: it's not covered (gaskets, brakes, etc)



I just purchased a 2013 (late production build | VIN: WBSKG9C58DJ973121) M3 and am thinking of making the switch.

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The 2010 M6 is clean, but w/ 3 owners. I'm the second owner of the M3.

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The M6 w. warranty and after taxes will be about $40k.

[M.Power]

You have a low mileage 2013 so no.

[wfdeacon88]

Originally Posted by Gevojanyan

You have a low mileage 2013 so no.

agreed... that SMG is horrific. Just buy it and keep the M.

[MrGatsby]

I was debating this for quite some time. Prior to my E92 M3 purchase, I was looking at those M6's. They are incredible cars. You get the V10 sound and performance in a sleek coupe body. What more could you ask for?

Although I was looking for a very specific car -- It had to be 2009+ for the CIC I drive, it HAD to be a manual, and it had to either come with warranty or have under 50k miles. After months of searching across the US, I couldn't find a single on that fit the bill, so I bought my E92 M3 and never looked back.

That particular example you posted is a stunner. Love the dark blue/ivory color combo and the newer I drive. But once you factor in the warranty cost you're nearing 40k all in. Really think about if spend 40k on a 9 year old V10 closer to 100k miles than 0. Is this a decision from the head or from the heart?

[areyouamac]

MrGatsby

Yes, the M6 a very nice car. There were only +~ 700-715 Manuals made, which are uber hard to find.

I think maintenance wise, while some say it costs a significant amount more, others have mentioned the cost of maintenance is comparable to the M3.

I change the oil and filters every 5K miles (via FCPEuro). I spent 47K on the M3 w/ the warranty 100K Miles / 5 Years.

Knowing only 700 Manuals were made, would you now consider the SMG or still hold out? Knowing there were 3 prior owners.. is a bit a downer, but expected.

[GORDON.M3]

terrible purchase decision. the m6 can be found for CHEAP here in Canada.

[MrGatsby]

Originally Posted by areyouamac

MrGatsby

Yes, the M6 a very nice car. There were only +~ 700-715 Manuals made, which are uber hard to find.

I think maintenance wise, while some say it costs a significant amount more, others have mentioned the cost of maintenance is comparable to the M3.

I change the oil and filters every 5K miles (via FCPEuro). I spent 47K on the M3 w/ the warranty 100K Miles / 5 Years.

Knowing only 700 Manuals were made, would you now consider the SMG or still hold out? Knowing there were 3 prior owners.. is a bit a downer, but expected.

I did hold out. There were plenty cars that fit my criteria save for the manual, and I did not purchase any. Rather, I found my E92 M3. The SMG is a deal breaker for me.

[areyouamac]

MrGatsby

Drove the car. The SMG is similar to the DCT, but there's a legit 1-2 second delay when shifting via paddle. Even in auto mode, you feel that jerk when it automatically switches gears. It's not bad and does feel more of a manual due to the delay in gear shifting.

The main put off for me was many multiple owners, and I can tell the car was sitting outside. M emblems were a bit faded, and the interior pillar trims were coming off (tell-tale sign for me to know the car has definitely sat outside, and not garaged)

For some reason, I preferred the E63 M6 interior over the E9X M3. Fewer buttons are always nicer.

Would I have gotten it? Definitely, if it was 1-owner, and lesser than 50K miles. It's worrisome especially when you see +3 owners for an E6X M5/M6.

I do have another 10 months to look for an E63 Black/Black... White/Black (or red) combo.

That Interlagos Blue and Red combo tho.. can never ever find that one!

[TomHudson]

DSG is heads and shoulders above the cumbersome and problematic SMG.

The only m6/M5 I would touch, would be a Dinan stroked manual tranny.

[GeorgeA]

Manual transmission S85s aren’t great. They used the gearbox from a 550 and the ratios are all off. I would stick to SMG

[wfdeacon88]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

I would stick to SMG

... Said no person on Earth EVER.

[mapster37]

SMG and the high pressure vanos of the s85 was very troublesome and expensive to fix. i would stay away even with an extended warranty .....

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by wfdeacon88

... Said no person on Earth EVER.

Only the people who have properly driven them both. Not all manuals are better.

If you’re talking about reliability, that’s a different story.

[TomHudson]

The V10 m6 or m5 just isn’t worth the headache in any shape or form.
It’s not an attractive car, and certainly not worth the bills that go along with it, in either manual or SMG.


The turbo m6 would be a better choice IMO.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

Manual transmission S85s aren’t great. They used the gearbox from a 550 and the ratios are all off. I would stick to SMG

That's a common myth but proven false on the M5board long ago. The ratios work out fine -- run the data against the S85 torque curve and see. You can use something like Cartest2000 also for example. There are actually a number of speed intervals where the 6MT is faster than the SMG as you'd expect since it's a give-and-take that depends on the overall gear ratio for the interval. The other option is actually driving the car. You'll find that it's a beast with excellent acceleration that is very close (for a good 6MT driver) to the SMG version [assuming of course this is a 6MT car that has had the DSC s/w update or one produced 09/2007 or later].

Note -- one place this whole subject got started so long ago was the C&D road test of the 6MT E60 M5. It was the early period 6MT (2007 through mid-2008 model production) where BMW had not yet allowed DSC to be fully off. BMW was worried about axle hop being powered through in 1st gear, so they didn't allow DSC to be fully off (MDM mode only). Hence C&D couldn't launch the car hard (as DSC prevented it), and the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts were DSC inhibited -- the net of all of that was the car was slower in their timed runs.

BMW "saw the light" and did a running change during the 2008 model year (production as of 09/2007 got the full DSC off s/w update; note 2008 model year started in 03/2007). Dealers were allowed to update the earlier cars upon the customer's request for no charge. That update is still available for any cars that haven't been done yet (and they're out there still), but you have to pay for it now.

With DSC able to fully disabled, you can launch the 6MT car using about 4500 rpms out of the hole, give or take, depending on traction/tires/temperature. You do need to keep the S85 on the boil out of the hole, so you have to be aggressive with the launch. The 1-2 quick upshift lays down a nice patch of rubber, the 2-3 upshift barks the tires, and the car is about 0.2-0.25 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile versus the SMG car (assuming it's being driven by a capable driver).

Lastly, M5board had someone post data long ago with the claim that the SMG E60 M5 was the most towed to dealership car BMW in BMWNA's history. Warranty claims for the SMG were way beyond BMW's expectations. Dealership ability to repair them is also very poor. So many SMG failures of one type of another stranded people. The board is full of stories of people's experiences such as having the RCOD appear while on the interstate fast lane and the car goes into neutral, etc.

[dparm]

What blew my mind is when the head of the M division said they didn't use a DCT because they wanted a more visceral feel. What a crock of shit.

Can you imagine how much better the M5/M6 would've been with a DCT?

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That's a common myth but proven false on the M5board long ago. The ratios work out fine -- run the data against the S85 torque curve and see. You can use something like Cartest2000 also for example. There are actually a number of speed intervals where the 6MT is faster than the SMG as you'd expect since it's a give-and-take that depends on the overall gear ratio for the interval. The other option is actually driving the car. You'll find that it's a beast with excellent acceleration that is very close (for a good 6MT driver) to the SMG version [assuming of course this is a 6MT car that has had the DSC s/w update or one produced 09/2007 or later].

Note -- one place this whole subject got started so long ago was the C&D road test of the 6MT E60 M5. It was the early period 6MT (2007 through mid-2008 model production) where BMW had not yet allowed DSC to be fully off. BMW was worried about axle hop being powered through in 1st gear, so they didn't allow DSC to be fully off (MDM mode only). Hence C&D couldn't launch the car hard (as DSC prevented it), and the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts were DSC inhibited -- the net of all of that was the car was slower in their timed runs.

BMW "saw the light" and did a running change during the 2008 model year (production as of 09/2007 got the full DSC off s/w update; note 2008 model year started in 03/2007). Dealers were allowed to update the earlier cars upon the customer's request for no charge. That update is still available for any cars that haven't been done yet (and they're out there still), but you have to pay for it now.

With DSC able to fully disabled, you can launch the 6MT car using about 4500 rpms out of the hole, give or take, depending on traction/tires/temperature. You do need to keep the S85 on the boil out of the hole, so you have to be aggressive with the launch. The 1-2 quick upshift lays down a nice patch of rubber, the 2-3 upshift barks the tires, and the car is about 0.2-0.25 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile versus the SMG car (assuming it's being driven by a capable driver).

Lastly, M5board had someone post data long ago with the claim that the SMG E60 M5 was the most towed to dealership car BMW in BMWNA's history. Warranty claims for the SMG were way beyond BMW's expectations. Dealership ability to repair them is also very poor. So many SMG failures of one type of another stranded people. The board is full of stories of people's experiences such as having the RCOD appear while on the interstate fast lane and the car goes into neutral, etc.

After driving both, the SMG feels much better and keeps the engine in its powerband better than the 6MT. There is a reason why the car was developed with the SMG. Not to mention that it compliments the engine much better with its extra hard shifts. To each his own I guess though.

Reliability is another story though, I do agree with you.

[eatsleepboost]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

After driving both, the SMG feels much better and keeps the engine in its powerband better than the 6MT. There is a reason why the car was developed with the SMG.

Keeps in the powerband better than the 6mt? In the 6mt you are responsible as the one who performs gear changes to select the proper gear given rpm and load. Many cars have an auto because they shift faster as well as many people cannot drive manual cars. Also most Americans can't be bothered with shifting as they need the free hand for texting etc while driving.

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

Keeps in the powerband better than the 6mt? In the 6mt you are responsible as the one who performs gear changes to select the proper gear given rpm and load. Many cars have an auto because they shift faster as well as many people cannot drive manual cars. Also most Americans can't be bothered with shifting as they need the free hand for texting etc while driving.

Yes the ratios are better suited for that engine, as in when you’re getting out of a corner in the lowest gear possible, you are in the powerband. Something that you notice when driving the car on track or hill climb. Again, not a huge difference but you can tell if you drive them hard.

[TTony]

lol @ $7100 for the warranty. When I bought mine with a warranty, the cost was $3000. Doug Demuro ruined the biggest secret to buying a used ///M car or AMG.

[Transfer]

You don't have to buy warranty through 125k miles. Go with 100k and it's probably $2k cheaper.

[kyrix1st]

Reconsider.