Battery/Alternator Issues

[JP10]

Background
Over the last few weeks I have been having some battery or alternator issues(maybe both). Usually varies with cold weather which is all over the place here in Philly. 10 one day, then 60 the next.

Yesterday morning, I had no issues getting in my car and heading to work. On my way out to my car later that night after work the comfort access was not working, and upon getting in the car I had the battery discharge warning, so right off the bat I knew the battery was low. Started up fine, and I just wasn't thinking so I was using all sorts of things(heated seats, heat, lights were on, EDC, even used my windshield wipers/fluid to clean some salt off). Well 30 minutes down the road my car starts throwing all sorts of errors, which again I immediately thought it to be battery issues, but figured my alternator would handle it. Well it did not and eventually I rolled to a stop, car shut off, idrive went black. Went back to the battery, checked the terminals, didn't seem like there was an issue. Consistently trying to start the car for 25 mins(maybe once every 7-10mins) the car eventually started without needing a jump.

I don't currently own a voltmeter, usually just borrow one when I need one, but wanted to check my voltage obviously. Ended up finding a video that shows you how to display your voltage on your dash, which I'll attach below. Checked my voltage that night. Upon starting the car it was ~14.5V, and when turning the car off it dropped to ~12.4V. But I was still getting the battery discharge warning.

Fast forward to this morning, was hesitate to drive the car to work, but wanted to diagnose the problem more so risked it. Started without a problem, no battery discharge warning, everything seemed fine. Drove to the gas station turned the car off, again started without a problem. Drove to work (~20mins), and wanted to check my voltage. Upon checking it was hovering around 11V, so I drove it while checking for about a 1/2mile with no change(varied from 10.8V to 11.0V). Parked the car, and restarted while checking the voltage again. Upon restarting it jumped to 13.9V(after turning lights, heat, and radio off it was ~14.5V). Turning off the vehicle it eventually dropped to 12.2V, then sprung the low battery warning on me. So it seems that my alternator is working upon starting, but then eventually stops? Again not sure.

Video

Thoughts/Actions
I was confused when I checked my voltage after driving 25mins because it was so low, this leads me to thing that my alternator is not working properly, or maybe it is working off and on. My other thought is my battery is so low that it is putting excess strain on my alternator.

Now to address the battery discharge error. Could this simply be because my battery is low? I have read of other problems with the DCT(doesn't apply to me, car is 6MT), and also issues with the EDC causing this error. So first off is there a way to diagnose the EDC issue? I have also read about the positive battery connection being loose in the front power distributor behind the glove box(seems to be a DIY for this that I will attempt if need be).

I plan to replace the battery today after work, and hopefully that dismisses the issue, it just seems strange that my voltage was so low after driving for 25mins. Does this mean that my alternator is on its way out as well?

I appreciate any help, relatively new to this car so I am still learning.

-Pacy

[ec_E92]

Pacy, are you on original battery and alternator? What's your year/mileage?

The main f/box wire issue will be more apparent as you'll have functionality that just stops working so don't think it is that. Not sure on the EDC issue but would think you'd also get a related code if it was that.

If you're on original battery, I'd start there first since your alt. seems to be charging upon startup. You can take it out and go to places like Autozone that can test the CCA (cold cranking amps) on it. As batteries age they degrade and may show 12V while sitting but only offer up limited CCA (which takes a beating in the winter). If the battery is toast I'd replace it, register it and monitor charging performance as you have been. If it continually dips then look at a new alt.

My money is on alternator but lets rule out the battery first.

[TigerTater]

Batt anywhere near low 11 needs replacing..,should be around 13.8-14.2 when running. As you see the obd function allows you to monitor the voltage while driving. I would start with new battery and go from there. Easiest solution is usually correct.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by ec_E92

Pacy, are you on original battery and alternator? What's your year/mileage?

The main f/box wire issue will be more apparent as you'll have functionality that just stops working so don't think it is that. Not sure on the EDC issue but would think you'd also get a related code if it was that.

If you're on original battery, I'd start there first since your alt. seems to be charging upon startup. You can take it out and go to places like Autozone that can test the CCA (cold cranking amps) on it. As batteries age they degrade and may show 12V while sitting but only offer up limited CCA (which takes a beating in the winter). If the battery is toast I'd replace it, register it and monitor charging performance as you have been. If it continually dips then look at a new alt.

My money is on alternator but lets rule out the battery first.

Appreciate the advice, will get that done at autozone today. Car is an '09, 78k miles. As for original battery/alt I will have to double check.

I'll continue to monitor the alternator once the battery is replaced, hoping I don't have to replace that as well . Now I understand that the battery needs coded in, that way it isn't throwing all sorts of errors. That being said can somewhere do this relatively cheep, or should I just get the carly app and register it myself?

Originally Posted by TigerTater

Batt anywhere near low 11 needs replacing.. Easiest solution is usually correct.

Yeah I knew the voltage was low when I measured it. Hoping its as easy as replacing the battery, thanks for the help.

[eatsleepboost]

Carly does work good for resetting the battery and I think Carly is a good investment overall. Buy the wireless dongle on Amazon and download the app on your phone. You have to pay for both. After you can keep the dongle in your car and since you always have your phone on you, you can check codes and data at any time.

As for the voltage issue, it sounds to me that you have a connection issue. The battery may be a bit weak but if it is strong enough to start the car then the alternator should be able to maintain 14v+ when running. The fact that you were down to 11v with engine on then restarted the car and had 14v makes it seem like you have a connection issue preventing the alternator charge from getting to the battery, no field at the alternator, or intermittently faulty alternator.

One other thing you should check is to make sure your belt is in good condition with good tension. If the pulley on the alternator isn't spinning you will not generate voltage.

[ec_E92]

Originally Posted by JPacy

Car is an '09, 78k miles. As for original battery/alt I will have to double check.

I replaced my original battery at about the same mileage. If yours is original, prob plan on changing now.

I don't have experience with Carly (used ISTA/INPA), but registering the battery has no affect on warning lights. It tells the alternator what charging algorithm to use based on the batt's characteristics.

Alt isn't hard to DIY, look up the Valeo part number. It's the OE manufacturer but much cheaper than buying the same part from the BMW dealer.

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

One other thing you should check is to make sure your belt is in good condition with good tension. If the pulley on the alternator isn't spinning you will not generate voltage.

Good point, another area to check.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by ec_E92

I replaced my original battery at about the same mileage. If yours is original, prob plan on changing now.

I don't have experience with Carly (used ISTA/INPA), but registering the battery has no affect on warning lights. It tells the alternator what charging algorithm to use based on the batt's characteristics.

Alt isn't hard to DIY, look up the Valeo part number. It's the OE manufacturer but much cheaper than buying the same part from the BMW dealer.



Good point, another area to check.

Thanks for the tip on the belt, ill check that out today after work(hopefully I make it home ).

Just researched the battery coding a little more. If I replace the battery with basically the same one then wouldn't there be no need for the coding? As the algorithm used to determine the charge to the battery from the alternator would be relatively the same? Regardless I plan on coding it in, more just interested.

So if I were to replace my battery today, and code it in later next week would there be any issue(need to get my hands on the carly piece from amazon, etc.)? I understand that it may charge improperly, but if it is only for the week I don't see too much harm.

I did look up alternators as well as DIYs for the job, and yes it does not seem to bad. Definitely something I would do on my own. That being said I will wait until I monitor the new battery before doing so. Does anyone have any experience with re-manufactured alternators? Not trying to be cheap(although I do have this tendency a little too often), but to my knowledge all the internals check out, and it is half the price($130 compared to $320). Seems like a no brainer.

Again appreciate all the advice.

[eatsleepboost]

From what I have read about battery coding, even if you replace the battery with the same one it needs to be programmed. The charging parameters for an old battery and for a new battery are different.

I replaced my battery. I used Autocraft platinum h8-agm 900cca. The price is about 190 but I ordered it online with 20% off and picked it up. That was only a couple months ago.

As far as driving prior to programming after replacement, I have never tried it but I believe you can.

No clue about alt prices.

[pbonsalb]

I would clear battery adaption with a high level scan tool if you can borrow one.

[ec_E92]

Just looked at my records, replaced my alternator with Valeo part number ALT.FGN18S014 (180A, 14V) through ECS Tuning. My cost in March '17 was $350. Install is straight forward and might as well do belts since they have to come off anyways. I changed my alt as a precaution though, it showed no signs of failure at 110k.

As far as programming, the parameters need set and the "counter" needs reset. If parameters are the same, just reset the counter. As @eatsleepboost said, the charging parameters change as the battery degrades.

You will NOT receive any warning/error messages if you drive with a new battery that has not been programmed. You'll be fine for a week but extended use will damage your battery.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

From what I have read about battery coding, even if you replace the battery with the same one it needs to be programmed. The charging parameters for an old battery and for a new battery are different.

I replaced my battery. I used Autocraft platinum h8-agm 900cca. The price is about 190 but I ordered it online with 20% off and picked it up. That was only a couple months ago.

As far as driving prior to programming after replacement, I have never tried it but I believe you can.

No clue about alt prices.

Ended up getting the same one you mentioned from researching around. Got 25% off for ordering online so ended up being $175, will get another $25 back with my old battery.

When changing my battery today it was an OEM battery, but I could not find a stamp date on it to check the age. Which I thought was a little odd. Still have the battery so if anyone knows where to check it let me know.

As of now I am driving on the new battery without recoding it. I will order the Carly off amazon probably tonight, so should be recoded within the week.

Measured the voltage all the way home with no signs of any issue. Battery discharge warning has disappeared as well. As for the alternator I am going to keep monitoring things, and if I see anything out of the ordinary I will replace it.

Thanks again guys, hoping this solves my problem.

[JP10]

So I'm back. Replaced my battery Friday after work, have been measuring the voltage at least one way of my commute every day. Drove home after work yesterday, parked for 2 hours then went out and drained some oil because my sensor was saying it was high. Get in my car to drive around, and upon starting I get the low battery discharge warning. Checked voltage running it was 13.7V, shut the vehicle off dropped below 12.2V and threw the low battery warning.... When driving(on throttle) the voltage would jump to ~14.2V.

After driving 10 minutes, and leaving the car sit it starts up without a hitch, checked the voltage and its measuring 14.8-15.4V, and after driving for 10 more mins and shutting the car off it measured ~13.5V. Both seem to be high numbers. Is it possible my car is not reading the correct voltage, thus throwing errors, seems like it might be a connection issue. But again not sure that's why I am here.

Or should i suspect that the alternator isn't charging the battery properly during operation? As I said I measure the voltage at least once daily since changing the battery. Haven't had an issue until last night. Car usually operates around 14.4V-14.6V.

Just for extra info, weather was into the 60s during the weekend. Was a little below freezing when starting up with the battery discharge message.

Again any help is appreciated.

[TigerTater]

Originally Posted by JPacy

So I'm back. Replaced my battery Friday after work, have been measuring the voltage at least one way of my commute every day. Drove home after work yesterday, parked for 2 hours then went out and drained some oil because my sensor was saying it was high. Get in my car to drive around, and upon starting I get the low battery discharge warning. Checked voltage running it was 13.7V, shut the vehicle off dropped below 12.2V and threw the low battery warning.... When driving(on throttle) the voltage would jump to ~14.2V.

After driving 10 minutes, and leaving the car sit it starts up without a hitch, checked the voltage and its measuring 14.8-15.4V, and after driving for 10 more mins and shutting the car off it measured ~13.5V. Both seem to be high numbers. Is it possible my car is not reading the correct voltage, thus throwing errors, seems like it might be a connection issue. But again not sure that's why I am here.

Or should i suspect that the alternator isn't charging the battery properly during operation? As I said I measure the voltage at least once daily since changing the battery. Haven't had an issue until last night. Car usually operates around 14.4V-14.6V.

Just for extra info, weather was into the 60s during the weekend. Was a little below freezing when starting up with the battery discharge message.

Again any help is appreciated.

What's the average length of time you drive daily? Sometimes it takes a longer trip to actually charge the battery...it's not instant. Did you ever get it registered? Could be also that the IBS is charging using the wrong settings

[Route 16]

Had the same issue for the past 2 weeks

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1456262

[JP10]

Originally Posted by TigerTater

What's the average length of time you drive daily? Sometimes it takes a longer trip to actually charge the battery...it's not instant. Did you ever get it registered? Could be also that the IBS is charging using the wrong settings

Drive about 20-30mins in and 40 to an hour home. Worth noting that coming home is a lot of stop and go traffic in the city some times. Yesterday traffic was awful so a ton of stop and go. Ordered the Carly on amazon on Friday, and I am still waiting on delivery. Once it is here I will be able to register the battery, so maybe that is the issue.

No problems with the car today. No errors or anything. Voltage is perfect. Will be traveling for work all next week so I probably won't drive it again for 9 days or so. I suspect the Carly to be here by then, and hopefully I'll have an update with more positive news!

[JP10]

Got back from travel over the weekend. Started the car and went to the auto show here in Philly, after the show started up my car. Engine malfunction, dbs error, dsc error, hill assist error, increased emissions. Was able to drive the car home, started it up a little later with only the increased emissions error.

Carly came in today, and I was able to register my battery. After numerous starts I checked the codes, and was getting whats shown below.

Oil condition sensor communication via BSD interface
00278D

Intake air of plausibility
002B5A

DK position monitoring
002792

DK-Actuator Control devision
002793

Voltage at terminal 87
002AFE

Throttle valve actuator CAN message
00CBDF

Check at lower top
002B57

CAN bus off throttle
00CD93

Cleared everything started back up(this time with reduced engine power)

Codes:
00278D
00CDBF
002B57
00CD93

Now the odd part is that I checked my voltage and it was low.... upon operating only 11.8. Didn't seem like my alternator was charging at all. And my car had just sat for a week. So my question, can low battery be causing all of these issues? Should I just replace the alternator and go from there? After researching these codes can reference numerous things but one of the bigger things is TVA replacement. I don't want to go down that route unless absolutely necessary.

Would really appreciate some insight on all of this. I am pretty confused at which route I should take at this point.

Thank you.

[eatsleepboost]

Low voltage will certainly cause a plethora of codes. 11.8v while running is way too low. Should be 14.6v.

To be absolutely certain on what is wrong you will need to use a multimeter and perform some tests.

-Put the multimeter on DCV right on the battery terminals to confirm the 11.8v while running.
-Ground the black lead of the multimeter and connect the red lead to the large positive stud coming off the alternator while running. Does it have the same 11.8v?

If yes- the alternator or voltage regulator is bad. The regulator I believe comes with a new alternator or can be replaced separately.

If no- your reading shows a good 14+v at the alternator but 11.8v at the battery then you have a bad connection between the alternator output and the battery.

At this point with the issues you have been having especially considering you already replaced the battery it certainly sounds like you need an alternator.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

Low voltage will certainly cause a plethora of codes. 11.8v while running is way too low. Should be 14.6v.

To be absolutely certain on what is wrong you will need to use a multimeter and perform some tests.

-Put the multimeter on DCV right on the battery terminals to confirm the 11.8v while running.
-Ground the black lead of the multimeter and connect the red lead to the large positive stud coming off the alternator while running. Does it have the same 11.8v?

If yes- the alternator or voltage regulator is bad. The regulator I believe comes with a new alternator or can be replaced separately.

If no- your reading shows a good 14+v at the alternator but 11.8v at the battery then you have a bad connection between the alternator output and the battery.

At this point with the issues you have been having especially considering you already replaced the battery it certainly sounds like you need an alternator.

Drove twice tonight, both times no issues starting. No error codes in general. Voltage was 14.7V. I will try to use a multimeter to pinpoint the location of the problem.

It seems like the voltage regulator does not come with the alternator. Can anyone confirm whether or not this is the case?

Appreciate the help like usual.

[0_to_60]

I had the same issue couple months back, while the car was on the voltage reading was around 11.5v.. And as i put more load turning ac on, radio, headlights and etc it dropped 11.1v... I took the car too autozone, they have a load tester for the battery/alternator.. The guy hooked it up and said the voltage regulator is bad..
You have 3 options, replace the alternator with oe valeo one, change out the voltage regulator and lastly the cheapest 7 dollar fix method (replacing the worn voltage regulator brushes with oe valeo ones, but this step requires soldering and etc).. If you are not so mechanicly incled just replace the voltage regulator, on ebay it is about 80 bucks for oe valeo one.

Alternators come assembled with voltage regulators either interanlly or externally.. In our case, the alternators for our cars have an external voltage regulator(replacable) found behind the alternator located under the plastic cap wth the serial.. So yes when you purchase an alternator it comes with voltage regulator, just like buying an iphone that comes with a battery lol

[JP10]

Originally Posted by 0_to_60

I had the same issue couple months back, while the car was on the voltage reading was around 11.5v.. And as i put more load turning ac on, radio, headlights and etc it dropped 11.1v... I took the car too autozone, they have a load tester for the battery/alternator.. The guy hooked it up and said the voltage regulator is bad..
You have 3 options, replace the alternator with oe valeo one, change out the voltage regulator and lastly the cheapest 7 dollar fix method (replacing the worn voltage regulator brushes with oe valeo ones, but this step requires soldering and etc).. If you are not so mechanicly incled just replace the voltage regulator, on ebay it is about 80 bucks for oe valeo one.

Alternators come assembled with voltage regulators either interanlly or externally.. In our case, the alternators for our cars have an external voltage regulator(replacable) found behind the alternator located under the plastic cap wth the serial.. So yes when you purchase an alternator it comes with voltage regulator, just like buying an iphone that comes with a battery lol

Took it to advanced auto today, guy was able to test the alternator. On the way there I was measuring the voltage the whole time, sat ~11.8V while driving. Got there had to restart the car and it jumped to 14.8V. According to the equipment they were using the alternator was providing a high voltage ~15.09. I also as getting a high voltage reading part of my drive home ~15.1-15.2. So the plan now is to replace the alternator.

Does anyone have any negative comments about remanufactured alternators? Basically can get a Pureenergy alternator for $106($166 without core, 1 year warranty, 1 year roadside assistance/complimentary towing) or spend $265 on a new Valeo alternator.

Would like to hear some comments.

[Route 16]

Originally Posted by JPacy

Took it to advanced auto today, guy was able to test the alternator. On the way there I was measuring the voltage the whole time, sat ~11.8V while driving. Got there had to restart the car and it jumped to 14.8V. According to the equipment they were using the alternator was providing a high voltage ~15.09. I also as getting a high voltage reading part of my drive home ~15.1-15.2. So the plan now is to replace the alternator.

Does anyone have any negative comments about remanufactured alternators? Basically can get a Pureenergy alternator for $106($166 without core, 1 year warranty, 1 year roadside assistance/complimentary towing) or spend $265 on a new Valeo alternator.

Would like to hear some comments.

just go with valeo for worry free or at least a bosch

remanufactured or made in china, i wouldn't

[eatsleepboost]

If you are performing the labor yourself you could try any brand you want and just return the part if it fails. However if you are not performing the repair you will have to pay the labor twice for a bad part.

If you value your time if you are doing the repair or don't want to pay labor twice just save yourself and get OEM