Track forum general chit chat.

[1FastSicilian]

Where are you guys mounting your external res. for your coilovers..

Looks like the only good place is on the cowl

[Richbot]

I tucked mine into the windshield drain with some fuel cell foam to hold them in place. Kept them cooler than some of the engine bay options would allow

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I tucked mine into the windshield drain with some fuel cell foam to hold them in place. Kept them cooler than some of the engine bay options would allow

I can’t fit mine there bc if the hinges on the 2013.

[alpine2530]

Replacing the oem clutch soon. With the car being an 08’, looks like I’ll have to replace the flywheel. Car is being used on track with about 5-10 track days a year, possibly even more. Getting addicted to this. Suggestions on an aftermarket setup? Or keep it oem, updated DMF and clutch? Car isn’t a daily. More of a weekend / track toy.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by alpine2530

Replacing the oem clutch soon. With the car being an 08’, looks like I’ll have to replace the flywheel. Car is being used on track with about 5-10 track days a year, possibly even more. Getting addicted to this. Suggestions on an aftermarket setup? Or keep it oem, updated DMF and clutch? Car isn’t a daily. More of a weekend / track toy.

I'd stick with the factory clutch setup. It's pretty good and it's not a component where it's fun to introduce racecar compromises, even on a racecar if durability of other components is a consideration. They also seem really durable for a factory clutch considering the age of some of them on track cars out there

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

With a slight toe-out up front, will the car wander on the street? While I will be spending more time on track, it'll still see double duty for another six months or so.

If there is a dip or if the road is crowned, the car will feel darty. You will need to keep your hands on the wheel. I DD mine with zero toe, you get used to it.

More toe in helps the car to track straight. Checking an alignment by see how far the car will travel straight with no steering inputs is not a great method. I could put a ton of toe in and the car will would track straight for miles. It would also wear your tires out in a couple thousand miles because the tire is more or less being dragged at an angle across the pavement.

A track setup has the toe closer to zero to reduce the heat in the tires. If I were so motivated, I'd put more toe in on the car if it was cold and wet outside to get heat into the tires quicker.

The rear end instability under braking is likely the rear tires toeing out as the weight comes off the rear end. There are probably some bumps are unevenness in the pavement where the instability is occurring. As mentioned, solid subframe bushings would help.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If there is a dip or if the road is crowned, the car will feel darty. You will need to keep your hands on the wheel. I DD mine with zero toe, you get used to it.

More toe in helps the car to track straight. Checking an alignment by see how far the car will travel straight with no steering inputs is not a great method. I could put a ton of toe in and the car will would track straight for miles. It would also wear your tires out in a couple thousand miles because the tire is more or less being dragged at an angle across the pavement.

A track setup has the toe closer to zero to reduce the heat in the tires. If I were so motivated, I'd put more toe in on the car if it was cold and wet outside to get heat into the tires quicker.

The rear end instability under braking is likely the rear tires toeing out as the weight comes off the rear end. There are probably some bumps are unevenness in the pavement where the instability is occurring. As mentioned, solid subframe bushings would help.

how much toe in the rear do you usually run? Doing some research and my trial&error, I found that .15 rear toe in actually feels pretty good.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

how much toe in the rear do you usually run? Doing some research and my trial&error, I found that .15 rear toe in actually feels pretty good.

5' to 12' is the OE spec. I usually target the low end of that range.

Which is .7mm or 1/32" on each side.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If there is a dip or if the road is crowned, the car will feel darty. You will need to keep your hands on the wheel. I DD mine with zero toe, you get used to it.

More toe in helps the car to track straight. Checking an alignment by see how far the car will travel straight with no steering inputs is not a great method. I could put a ton of toe in and the car will would track straight for miles. It would also wear your tires out in a couple thousand miles because the tire is more or less being dragged at an angle across the pavement.

A track setup has the toe closer to zero to reduce the heat in the tires. If I were so motivated, I'd put more toe in on the car if it was cold and wet outside to get heat into the tires quicker.

The rear end instability under braking is likely the rear tires toeing out as the weight comes off the rear end. There are probably some bumps are unevenness in the pavement where the instability is occurring. As mentioned, solid subframe bushings would help.

this is great info!

i also daily my car so running 0 toe upfront is nice, but yeah when it rains or what ever the condition of the road is. all hands on the steering wheel for sure lol.

i run about .17 total toe in at the rear also. might increase it to like .20 or something... although probably not needed.

I kind of want to add some toe for the front but i don't want to eat my tires.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

I kind of want to add some toe for the front but i don't want to eat my tires.

It’s the combination of toe and camber.

More camber with zero toe will wear the tire slightly faster. A little extra toe at stock camber won’t affect wear that much.

Adding a bunch of camber AND toe will wear out the tire much faster. If you’re at -3.0 camber, adding toe will cause a smaller area of the tire to have to dissipate more heat so your get more of the wear concentrated over a smaller area.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

It’s the combination of toe and camber.

More camber with zero toe will wear the tire slightly faster. A little extra toe at stock camber won’t affect wear that much.

Adding a bunch of camber AND toe will wear out the tire much faster. If you’re at -3.0 camber, adding toe will cause a smaller area of the tire to have to dissipate more heat so your get more of the wear concentrated over a smaller area.

yeah that's basically where I'm at with my decision, I've been running -3.6F with 0 toe and decided on my last oil change based on tire wear that I'll just add some toe out.

your advice helps with my decision here.

my current alignment - PB at BW CW13 - 1:57

-3.6F
0 toe front
max possible caster
-2.5R
.17 total toe in Rear

car feels great, but turn in kind of sucks. hopefully some toe-out will help with that.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

yeah that's basically where I'm at with my decision, I've been running -3.6F with 0 toe and decided on my last oil change based on tire wear that I'll just add some toe out.

your advice helps with my decision here.

my current alignment - PB at BW CW13 - 1:57

-3.6F
0 toe front
max possible caster
-2.5R
.17 total toe in Rear

car feels great, but turn in kind of sucks. hopefully some toe-out will help with that.

Sometimes you can fix understeer on entry with better braking. Especially how and where the brakes are released.

[Redd]

Try reducing rear toe-in. I run 0 degree 5 minutes (0.08 degree) of rear toe-in and turn-in is nice. Car is very willing to rotate without being snappy.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Redd

Try reducing rear toe-in. I run 0 degree 5 minutes (0.08 degree) of rear toe-in and turn-in is nice. Car is very willing to rotate without being snappy.

yeah i figure with running square id be able to rotate easier still but i might just bring the toe in rear more to half of what i have now for total toe.

so .08 like you said.

although i might be switching to staggered soon so ill revisit that.

[alpine2530]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I'd stick with the factory clutch setup. It's pretty good and it's not a component where it's fun to introduce racecar compromises, even on a racecar if durability of other components is a consideration. They also seem really durable for a factory clutch considering the age of some of them on track cars out there

Thanks. That’s what I’m planning to, to keep the stock clutch but pair it with a SMF. I understand that it would come with some noise and chatter with this setup but can’t help but think the ‘fun’ aspect of it on track.

Having said that, I’m quite impressed with the previous clutch, it lasted 17 years 165,000 kms with the last 20,000 being mostly track driven. Don’t think it has ever been replaced.

[Bimmer Barney]

So I still have this weird clunking noise from the front end that I hear inside the car at speeds of 40mph and lower. I know for sure I don't have any bolts/nuts loose (and now my undercarriage is dotted with yellow torque check paint everywhere, haha). I'm going to swap the sway bar endlinks because they're pretty inexpensive. I'll check the tie rod ends as well. Feels like I'm throwing money darts in the dark, but at 108k miles it's probably not the worst idea to refresh these parts anyway. The only thing I haven't done is remove the front coilover/camber plate assembly to inspect the camber plate bushing. I'll eventually do that, too.

What's weird is standing outside the car or driving alongside it, I don't hear anything. The noise is best described as a part knocking into the body of the car.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

So I still have this weird clunking noise from the front end that I hear inside the car at speeds of 40mph and lower. I know for sure I don't have any bolts/nuts loose (and now my undercarriage is dotted with yellow torque check paint everywhere, haha). I'm going to swap the sway bar endlinks because they're pretty inexpensive. I'll check the tie rod ends as well. Feels like I'm throwing money darts in the dark, but at 108k miles it's probably not the worst idea to refresh these parts anyway. The only thing I haven't done is remove the front coilover/camber plate assembly to inspect the camber plate bushing. I'll eventually do that, too.

What's weird is standing outside the car or driving alongside it, I don't hear anything. The noise is best described as a part knocking into the body of the car.

for a while i had an annoying clunk on my car in the front too..

Turned out the front sway bar end link was hitting the control arm. Went to a shorter end link and it went away.

[rhyary]

Going to Autocouture tomorrow to test drive my car after winter projects. I doubt I will sleep tonight. So excited.

Schedule pickup next week.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Going to Autocouture tomorrow to test drive my car after winter projects. I doubt I will sleep tonight. So excited.

Schedule pickup next week.

What were the projects?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by DRLane

What were the projects?

Rebuilding the JRZ was the main one.
The rest are maintenance such as fluids and cleaning radiators, changing rusting hardware on the Zeb wing, redoing brackets on the Zeb splitters. Basically there are things to seem to deteriorate when you do 30 trackdays so nothing sexy. Main focus is to start with a good baseline

[1FastSicilian]

Fellas, I’m torn and curious on what you guys think,

Have an opportunity to sell my stoptech ST40 all around …. Using that money to go with the BW Alcon CR6420 and stock brakes w track pads.


Thoughts are I’ll have better performance w the Alcons vs the stoptechs all around…

[chocstraw]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If there is a dip or if the road is crowned, the car will feel darty. You will need to keep your hands on the wheel. I DD mine with zero toe, you get used to it.

I just played around with my toe extensively, laying down on the side of the road with a T50 and 13mm stubby about 10 times.

I really do not like the way this car handles or returns to center with egregious toe out. Zero toe or maybe the slightest toe out is best.

A lot of toe out does turn-in like crazy, but it leads to very unpredictable and undesirable characteristics mid-turn.

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

Fellas, I’m torn and curious on what you guys think,

Have an opportunity to sell my stoptech ST40 all around …. Using that money to go with the BW Alcon CR6420 and stock brakes w track pads.


Thoughts are I’ll have better performance w the Alcons vs the stoptechs all around…

This is Gear Acquisition Syndrome speaking