EflexFuel kit

[ciges]

eFlex Fuel kit is 349 Euro or $430 .

[JsL]

Originally Posted by ciges

eFlex Fuel kit is 349 Euro or $430 .

The verbiage on their site is confusing. I think it's 349 Euro if you order and ship within the European Union. If you order outside the EU, it's 281.45 Euro because you don't need to pay 24% VAT (Value Added Tax).

That's how I interpreted it.

From their ordering page:

"1-8 cylinders 349 € (281,45 VAT 0 %)
Prices are without taxes (24 % VAT) when ordering outside of EU or EEC."

[ciges]

Originally Posted by JsL

The verbiage on their site is confusing. I think it's 349 Euro if you order and ship within the European Union. If you order outside the EU, it's 281.45 Euro because you don't need to pay 24% VAT (Value Added Tax).

That's how I interpreted it.

From their ordering page:

"1-8 cylinders 349 € (281,45 VAT 0 %)
Prices are without taxes (24 % VAT) when ordering outside of EU or EEC."

You are correct,on checkout it shows;
Total price with shipping
281.45 € (includes VAT 0.00 €)

[JsL]

Heads up that Ebay has a 20% off coupon and makes this $320 shipped. ($400 - 20% = $320).

Coupon code is PICKDADSGIFT and expires today at 7PM PST.

[yidgyi]

So is this kit compatible with the s65 motor? If eflexfuel kit does the same thing as the AFD kit I rather get the eflexfuel one because its cheaper. I've sent out an e-mail to eflexfuel to confirm whether or not this kit is compatible with our cars. Anyone have this kit on their car running e85?

[JsL]

Originally Posted by yidgyi

So is this kit compatible with the s65 motor? If eflexfuel kit does the same thing as the AFD kit I rather get the eflexfuel one because its cheaper. I've sent out an e-mail to eflexfuel to confirm whether or not this kit is compatible with our cars. Anyone have this kit on their car running e85?

dpaul did and their reply is below. I think people run 100% e85 on a naturally aspirated M3 just fine with the AFD kit and stock pump. I'm on the fence here as I'm supercharged and if something goes wrong with the unit and I run lean, I don't want to go kaboom I'm only planning to run E40 - E50 on my car, but the risk is much less with a naturally aspirated car.

$320 shipped is stupid cheap though.

Originally Posted by dpaul

S65 engine was not on their compatibility list

However, I emailed them about it - here's the reply:

"Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. eFlexFuel is compatible with this engine. However, the original fuel pump may not develop enough flow for pure E85.

Does the car have the original pump? The only way of course to know this for sure is to test it. And if the the flow (when asking full power with pure ethanol) is not adequate, you can change a little bit bigger E85 rated pump.

If you have nay further questions, we are happy to answer. Order can easily be made from here: https://eflexfuel.com/Store/Form

We will automatically include all necessary accessories for easy installation and the car-specific connectors etc. Shipping to US takes about 3 days and is free of charge."

[R8T3D_M]

This is all slightly confusing because if you check the compatibility of the eflex kit on their site it says that it is not compatible with the 2007-2013 4.0 m3? Im very tempted to order it and just give it a shot. I work for a performance shop and have access to a dyno. but most cars we run e85 on require quite a bit of tuning even if NA.

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by JsL

Heads up that Ebay has a 20% off coupon and makes this $320 shipped. ($400 - 20% = $320).

Coupon code is PICKDADSGIFT and expires today at 7PM PST.

You are the MVP of this thread. Just scooped one up. Will make a review thread when it comes in.

I've been scared to pull the trigger on this for a while but that one guy with the C63 benz loves his kit so lets roll the dice.

Thanks!

[JsL]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

You are the MVP of this thread. Just scooped one up. Will make a review thread when it comes in.

I've been scared to pull the trigger on this for a while but that one guy with the C63 benz loves his kit so lets roll the dice.

Thanks!

Glad I can help you spend money on the car.

Do let us know how it goes, so I'll kick myself for not buying it now with the coupon.

[yidgyi]

Originally Posted by Excusem3

This is all slightly confusing because if you check the compatibility of the eflex kit on their site it says that it is not compatible with the 2007-2013 4.0 m3? Im very tempted to order it and just give it a shot. I work for a performance shop and have access to a dyno. but most cars we run e85 on require quite a bit of tuning even if NA.

Yes this is why I am confused. It shows as incompatible on their website but I thought this was a universal part.

[yidgyi]

This is what I was told by eflexfuel. Might go ahead and buy the kit eventually. Seems like to me there is no real difference between AFD and this kit besides the software.

Hi,

we have E92 M3 listed as "uncertain" because BMW doesn't give any official flow specs for the three-phase fuel pump, only info is 3-6 bar fuel pressure depending on the engine operating state.

We haven't had opportunity to test eFlexFuel with this car but I guess the fuel pump flow capacity is enough if AFD sells kits for M3.

Otherwise there's nothing special.

EV1/Jetronic connectors for injectors (Bosch 0280158164 / BMW 13647838440) and 8mm quick connectors for fuel line.

Terveisin / Best regards,

Miika Hölttä

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by yidgyi

This is what I was told by eflexfuel. Might go ahead and buy the kit eventually. Seems like to me there is no real difference between AFD and this kit besides the software.

Seems like they are just scared about not knowing the stock fuel pump flow rates(which we already know can handle full E-85 tunes).

Once I get mine in we'll see how it goes. I've had the car dyno'ed at a shop with the current mods minus the flex fuel kit so even though it won't be on the same day it will be on the same dyno. I'll try and buy a 5gal jug of VP e-85 to get the best results.

[yidgyi]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

Seems like they are just scared about not knowing the stock fuel pump flow rates(which we already know can handle full E-85 tunes).

Once I get mine in we'll see how it goes. I've had the car dyno'ed at a shop with the current mods minus the flex fuel kit so even though it won't be on the same day it will be on the same dyno. I'll try and buy a 5gal jug of VP e-85 to get the best results.

Let me know the results and if install is easy. Thanks.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

You're right.... bad searching skills on my part this morning. About 20 give or take and one near me as well.

4 gallons of 105 E85 mixed with 12 gallons of 91 would be a combined tank octane rating of ~94. This is probably what the S65 needs to consistently hit full timing targets in warm weather, I bet.

The 76 just south of Clairemont right next to the 163 has E85 at the pump.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

You are the MVP of this thread. Just scooped one up. Will make a review thread when it comes in.

I've been scared to pull the trigger on this for a while but that one guy with the C63 benz loves his kit so lets roll the dice.

Thanks!

So far so good for me. Got about 5k miles on it and no issues. I just dyno'd on 65% yesterday and found out it's good for about 20 rwhp for most of the powerband but it got real rich after 6k rpm. Ended up with no gains from 6200 on vs 93. Even at 3000 rpm it runs about .7 richer than on 93. So in my case a retune is necessary....but given how much fuel can be taken out I think there's a lot of power potential once properly setup. Anyone who purchases one of these kits, rather it's the cheap one or the afd, should consider getting on a dyno asap to see what's going on with the a/f.

[JsL]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

So far so good for me. Got about 5k miles on it and no issues. I just dyno'd on 65% yesterday and found out it's good for about 20 rwhp for most of the powerband but it got real rich after 6k rpm. Ended up with no gains from 6200 on vs 93. Even at 3000 rpm it runs about .7 richer than on 93. So in my case a retune is necessary....but given how much fuel can be taken out I think there's a lot of power potential once properly setup. Anyone who purchases one of these kits, rather it's the cheap one or the afd, should consider getting on a dyno asap to see what's going on with the a/f.

Thanks for posting your experiences on both sites and making us aware of this kit.

BTW, I don't think you can compare AFR readings of gasoline and e85/e85 mix. Your target AFR is different for gasoline and e85, so taking out fuel at high rpms might not be the right thing to do.

[yidgyi]

Don't quote me on this, but I think I read somewhere on here that AFRs for e85 vs 93oct. will be different. Somewhere along the lines where what is considered acceptable AFR range for 93 is different for e85. Perhaps running richer on e85 is necessary for that fuel because e85 consumes more fuel then 93? I don't know if I'm making sense. Any input would be appreciated! I do agree that a proper e85 tune would yield far better results then flex fuel.

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

So far so good for me. Got about 5k miles on it and no issues. I just dyno'd on 65% yesterday and found out it's good for about 20 rwhp for most of the powerband but it got real rich after 6k rpm. Ended up with no gains from 6200 on vs 93. Even at 3000 rpm it runs about .7 richer than on 93. So in my case a retune is necessary....but given how much fuel can be taken out I think there's a lot of power potential once properly setup. Anyone who purchases one of these kits, rather it's the cheap one or the afd, should consider getting on a dyno asap to see what's going on with the a/f.

On my Turner 91 pump gas tune it was already rich up top according to the dyno sniffer. I'll see what the Eflexfuel AFR comes out to and compare it with normal NA e85 tunes

[jcolley]

To run E85, you need to add about 30% mass flow to maintain stoich. Since the O2 sensors are read out as lambda in the DME, the DME always maintains lambda to the target. There is a parameter in the DME for stoich value that isn't changed with any of these kits. What these kits do I suspect is intercept the pulse for the injector and add pulse length to account for the necessary added fuel mass and that percentage increase is based on the value of ethanol per the sensor.

None of the kits I've looked at have any interface to the coils though or any feedback line to the DME that would affect timing. (If they did, the ionic current system would probably throw a fit). The statement was made earlier in this thread that the AFD kit would pull timing up high, but I'm trying to understand by what mechanism that would occur in the DME with the AFD kit vs a stock fuel system. I would suspect if you logged fuel rail pressure on the AFD kit you might see some difficulty with the stock pumps hitting the pressure targets and the DME is pulling timing preventively, but I'd have to go back and look at the mapping to confirm that.

As for the power increase with E85, unless timing is advanced by separate tuning of the DME, all the power gains come from the increased charge cooling as a function of the higher latent heat of vaporization as well as the increased mass flow injected. AFD seems to have based their marketing on that whereas the other company has not.

Even without retuning for increased timing, gains are to be had. The problem with increasing the timing is you better know very well what your ethanol content is because the DME doesn't and can only correct by pulling timing if it does sense knock. Also better make sure your tuner isn't one in favor of disabling knock sensing in the mss60.

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by jcolley

To run E85, you need to add about 30% mass flow to maintain stoich. Since the O2 sensors are read out as lambda in the DME, the DME always maintains lambda to the target. There is a parameter in the DME for stoich value that isn't changed with any of these kits. What these kits do I suspect is intercept the pulse for the injector and add pulse length to account for the necessary added fuel mass and that percentage increase is based on the value of ethanol per the sensor.

None of the kits I've looked at have any interface to the coils though or any feedback line to the DME that would affect timing. (If they did, the ionic current system would probably throw a fit). The statement was made earlier in this thread that the AFD kit would pull timing up high, but I'm trying to understand by what mechanism that would occur in the DME with the AFD kit vs a stock fuel system. I would suspect if you logged fuel rail pressure on the AFD kit you might see some difficulty with the stock pumps hitting the pressure targets and the DME is pulling timing preventively, but I'd have to go back and look at the mapping to confirm that.

As for the power increase with E85, unless timing is advanced by separate tuning of the DME, all the power gains come from the increased charge cooling as a function of the higher latent heat of vaporization as well as the increased mass flow injected. AFD seems to have based their marketing on that whereas the other company has not.

Even without retuning for increased timing, gains are to be had. The problem with increasing the timing is you better know very well what your ethanol content is because the DME doesn't and can only correct by pulling timing if it does sense knock. Also better make sure your tuner isn't one in favor of disabling knock sensing in the mss60.

None of these flex fuel kits pull timing. They only interact with the injectors to spray more fuel than normal when running E85. Now if you loaded up a race gas tune and used the Flex Fuel kit with that, you might make some magic with higher timing targets. I'm going to research this...

[jcolley]

Originally Posted by opihi5

For everyone with questions about the AFD kit i feel like this will clear things up.

The fuel pump Is fully capable of running 100percent e85 if you are naturally aspirated. The kit however will pull timing from anything over 70% seems to be the limit for na s65. Ive been running the afd kit and found the beat results are around 65% e85. Just mix around 4 gallons 91 into the tank.

And yes everyone you can feel the difference in power/response. FBO i put down 383 on a dyno reading ~25 hp lower for other cars.

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

None of these flex fuel kits pull timing. They only interact with the injectors to spray more fuel than normal when running E85. Now if you loaded up a race gas tune and used the Flex Fuel kit with that, you might make some magic with higher timing targets. I'm going to research this...

That was my impression. The quote above yours is what drew my comment. I'm not denying timing is being pulled, that's easy to datalog. The cause is harder to discern, but it's safe to say the E85 kits themselves aren't doing it.

[rif75]

I m in europe and could go for it if you give me a good contact for the tune and not one that will charge too much for it, don t want to pay 400 for the kit and 1500 for the tune