RX-8 R3 to E90 M3

[Richbot]

Happy to see voters in Canada are on the same spectrum as they are down here

[spiderspider]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

Two things:

1. Most of the RX-8s in existence are from the most problematic model years (2004 & 2005), and they get passed around from one ignorant/poor/neglectful owner to the next as they rot. Later model years were much better. Mine was fantastic other than the powertrain.

2. A complete Mazda remanufactured engine for the RX-8 costs like $3k + core, and it has enough new parts that it's basically a new engine. The other big-ticket failure item is the cat (it's comically huge BTW -- check one out if you can) at just under $2k. All you do is budget for both to be replaced every 60k-100k miles, though they'll probably last longer. Not much worse than rod bearings + throttle actuators on the S65, and you get a new engine when you do it. It's not nothing, but nor is it the British Leyland-style nightmare it's made out to be. Beyond that, there's really nothing else to worry about. Or at least no more than in any other economy car this side of a Corolla.

sorry, just have to clarify: are you saying for RX8 ownership that one should budget for new engine every 60-100K miles?

[m3jala]

The Wankel engines were cool in the original rx7 for the same reason ours are. Long linear power range up to an easy 9k rpm while others are shifting at 5k. It's a shame the investment never really happened to further the development of these. Imagine a 20k rpm smooth 600hp motor. That was sort of the direction these had the potential to get to.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by m3jala

The Wankel engines were cool in the original rx7 for the same reason ours are. Long linear power range up to an easy 9k rpm while others are shifting at 5k. It's a shame the investment never really happened to further the development of these. Imagine a 20k rpm smooth 600hp motor. That was sort of the direction these had the potential to get to.

But the EMISSIONS!

I had an FC Turbo II (which eventually got an LS1 swapped into it of course), but the rotaries are all too fun. I think my next garage toy will end up being an FD with eventual V8 swap should the turbo rotary let go. An S65 would be slick, but a high revving LS would be just as fun, right?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Richbot

RX8’s are such amazing cars.

Interesting. We only consider FC/FD iterations of the rotary engine great here. Rx8 is too heavy without power compared to these, and the chassis isn’t standalone either..

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by spiderspider

sorry, just have to clarify: are you saying for RX8 ownership that one should budget for new engine every 60-100K miles?

... but the entire engine costs about the same as paying someone to replace the s65 rod bearings/parts

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by GotV8?

welcome to the family, I hope you share your experience when you get a chance to track your M3, I would love to hear your thoughts on the handling when you try to push your M3 to its limits!!! Enjoy your S65 and thanks for sharing your post.

Bet on it!

Originally Posted by BlauM3

Thank you for the post. It was an entertaining and informative read.

Originally Posted by mapster37

One hell of an introductory write up-(compliment) Are you employed by an auto magazine? welcome to the club.

Thanks, guys.

No, I'm not employed by an auto mag. Happy to have an endorsement though, if any outlets are reading this. :]

Originally Posted by AMG2M3

I’m sure the same is said on rennlist when the m3 is compared to a 911.

I'm not on Rennlist but... yes.

Originally Posted by FitzgJ74

Yeah but he comes on here like he's not too sure if anything can be better than a Mazda, you can't let that go unanswered (not if you're from Europe)������

I think I can understand how you came away with that impression.

Ironically, what I wrote was about my experience of being broken of that kind of thinking. Most of the people in this thread seems to have picked up on that, so I think it's safe to say you just missed something.

Or are you just mad that someone might think a Mazda might compare well to a BMW in any way at all, regardless of what that person's overall view is? If that's the case, you've got some reading to do.

Originally Posted by m3jala

The Wankel engines were cool in the original rx7 for the same reason ours are. Long linear power range up to an easy 9k rpm while others are shifting at 5k. It's a shame the investment never really happened to further the development of these. Imagine a 20k rpm smooth 600hp motor. That was sort of the direction these had the potential to get to.

I seem to be almost alone in this opinion, even among RX-8 owners, but I think a Wankel engine's (only) real talents for a street car are weight and size. It's lower than anything other than a flat/boxer, and shorter than pretty much anything with more than 4 cylinders, which keeps CoG and polar moment of inertia low. It's also narrower than anything but an inline, which allows more freedom to design a good front suspension and a stiff structure in critical areas.

The flaws -- terrible fuel economy, poor emissions, weak longevity -- are basically inherent in the fundamental aspects of the design. Horrible thermal efficiency, a poorly shaped combustion chamber, and tons of sealing surfaces. I don't see the downsides going away any time soon. Maybe ever.

[wyatth]

Great read and welcome!
Many of us have moved into E90Ms for the same reason - it really is the best package for a family/sedan!
Cheers,

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Happy to see voters in Canada are on the same spectrum as they are down here

I mean, Ontario did elect the WalMart version of Trump as our new Premier...

*sigh* Rampant stupidity in the populace is the new plague.

[kerrit]

Welcome!

Looking forward to your next review once you get the summer tires back on and curve up some of your favorite roads

Also, pull the front camber pins, free mod.

[m3jala]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

But the EMISSIONS!

I had an FC Turbo II (which eventually got an LS1 swapped into it of course), but the rotaries are all too fun. I think my next garage toy will end up being an FD with eventual V8 swap should the turbo rotary let go. An S65 would be slick, but a high revving LS would be just as fun, right?

I'd personally go for the third gen rx-7. There are some that strapped a quad rotor into it. But it's nothing in terms of refinement to what we in the m3 world have. Or we could talk about the vw corrado vr6, yes I am old fashioned :-)

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by Reed

I can almost understand where he is coming from. It is a lot easier to push a RX8 to its edge than it is a M3, and that's where you have the most fun with a car. Sounds like he needs to do a track day.

I agree. I have more fun in my S2000, and often feel like it is outperforming my M3 until I realize that I'm just pushing the poor thing closer to its handling envelope.

That is entirely possible to do even legally on the street where I can't do that legally with the M3. I'll often be accelerating down the street only to notice an officer sitting behind a billboard, etc. I'll suddenly glance down at the speedo thinking that I just garnered a ticket-only to realize that I'm driving the Honda today and I'm well below the posted limit. It just FEELS like I was driving too fast.

[drwankel]

Hello from rx8club ;-)

(hornbm)

[SLC Steve]

Lotta people in here have never driven a fun Mazda it seems. I have always loved the RX8 in R3 configuration. The wheels are some of the most beautiful factory wheel in existence. The seats are awesome as well. Before my jump back into BMW's about five years ago I went from a Velocity Red Mica Speed6 into an E36 M, then into my E90. Mazda knows how to make a red paint color and anyone who disagrees needs to go take a close look at a current Mazda painted in Soul Red.

[serranot]

Originally Posted by WPGBNC

Am I the only one left scratching my head over this write up that puts a Mazda on par with a BMW, let alone an M3?

No offense to OP as I can tell there’s an emotional attachment to the Mazda...but these 2 cars aren’t even comparable.

All in, you’re obviously a talented writer and have done a remarkable car review, so I am sure I’ll enjoy the one you do on the M3 once you discover just how amazing it is.

Enjoy!

I have owned two RX-7s, including a Turbo; a Millenia, and a 626. The Mazdas are worthy competitors to BMW.

[tlow98]

Ah, Mazda love! I've had an FC Rx-7 (NA), an e36 M3 and an E46 M3. Really loved my RX-7 coupe. Great car to learn with. The rx-8s can take a ton of tire and I remember battling them in autocross with both of my M3s. They were beasts!

Love your E90 sedan! Did you consider the E90 with the N52 and 6 speed? Certainly would have filled your need for less weight (~3,250lbs) and an inline 6. Of course, it would have needed coil overs to compete with the M3... Of Course, it would have also not been as special either...

[spiderspider]

test drove the mazdaspeed3 some years ago and loved it, FWD turbo 4 and all. nice tight steering and handling.