BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-16-2009, 02:18 PM   #45
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
286
Rep
8,034
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
Can you use aftermarket pads (like pagids) and make use of the OEM pad wear sensor? Will the system calculate correctly remaining pad life?
The pad wear sensor is a simple dedicated contact sensor. When the pads are worn to the threshold thickness, the sensor makes contact with the rotor and a part of it wears out, a curcuit is closed, and the red brake light on the dash comes on.

The I-drive reading has nothing to do with that although it can also trigger the brake light on the dash (I think it goes yellow first). I assume it processes data from some of the other sensors such as accelerometers, and/or speedometer to predict when you need to replace your pads, and is not all that accurate when the car experiences track conditions.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2009, 04:04 PM   #46
py0413
Major
py0413's Avatar
Canada
63
Rep
1,260
Posts

Drives: Slow
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
not true my friend

there is an additional warranty you can buy for your car for $1000 bucks, and it covers your brakes and clutch for 3 years I believe. it must be done when the car is new or less than 1 year old (or 20 000 km)
that additional charge apply to ONLY 1 full brake replacement and I think it is more than 1k you have to spend at the time purchasing the car. If I don't come across to some cheap OEM brake parts when it comes to replacing, I will upgrade to BBK for sure.
__________________
Must stop eating..............
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2009, 05:54 PM   #47
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
33
Rep
580
Posts

Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Well with my 29.7mm of rotor I think I will be fine. I would like to see how well the stock brakes do on the track, so will be throwing in either Pagid RS-19 or Carbotech XP-12s in the spring.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2009, 06:07 PM   #48
gr8000
Major
gr8000's Avatar
Greece
44
Rep
1,172
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 - DCT
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Athens, Greece

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to gr8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
The pad wear sensor is a simple dedicated contact sensor. When the pads are worn to the threshold thickness, the sensor makes contact with the rotor and a part of it wears out, a curcuit is closed, and the red brake light on the dash comes on.

The I-drive reading has nothing to do with that although it can also trigger the brake light on the dash (I think it goes yellow first). I assume it processes data from some of the other sensors such as accelerometers, and/or speedometer to predict when you need to replace your pads, and is not all that accurate when the car experiences track conditions.
Thanks. On the first part of my question I was basically aiming to ask if the aftermarket pads have the necessary slot to fit in the wear sensors. Sorry for not being clear on that.

For the second part, thanks for the good info. So the system estimates remaining pad life based on hard data on the way the car is driven (utilising sensors) and uses some sort of an algorythm to estimate pad wear based on the properties of the OEM pad material. Then the question is, will this same algorythm produce good results also for non-OEM pad compounds? In my mind no, but I guess it depends on how different are the wear characteristics of the OEM pads versus the non-OEM pads. If the non-OEM pad wears less (eg if it is harder) then the algorythm will underestimate the remaining life of the non-OEM pads. Or is my logic incorrect?
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2009, 08:34 PM   #49
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
286
Rep
8,034
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
Thanks. On the first part of my question I was basically aiming to ask if the aftermarket pads have the necessary slot to fit in the wear sensors. Sorry for not being clear on that.
Pagids will accomodate the OEM wear sensors. Carbotechs have the cavity built-in, but the bonding agent they use seems to overflow and fill it, deeming it unusable--happened to me twice now. Regardless, on the track, I just watch the pad thickness manually. I don't want the red light to come on, as you need a tool to reset that, and replacing the worn out contact sensor will not get rid of it. You don't want to wear you pads down on the track that much to begin with anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
For the second part, thanks for the good info. So the system estimates remaining pad life based on hard data on the way the car is driven (utilising sensors) and uses some sort of an algorythm to estimate pad wear based on the properties of the OEM pad material. Then the question is, will this same algorythm produce good results also for non-OEM pad compounds? In my mind no, but I guess it depends on how different are the wear characteristics of the OEM pads versus the non-OEM pads. If the non-OEM pad wears less (eg if it is harder) then the algorythm will underestimate the remaining life of the non-OEM pads. Or is my logic incorrect?
I don't have hard evidence to prove that's what the system is doing, but I don't see how else it could be arriving at the number of miles to service reading. I don't see how that it is based on some kind of actual measurement done on the pad, so processing of the vehicle performance data seems to be a realistic method.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2009, 10:45 PM   #50
Dascamel
Lieutenant Colonel
Dascamel's Avatar
34
Rep
1,664
Posts

Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bakersfield, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
Can you use aftermarket pads (like pagids) and make use of the OEM pad wear sensor? Will the system calculate correctly remaining pad life?
Some pads have the groove for the sensor, not sure about the pagids. I'm leaning on not even using the sensor for the track, saving that for the stock setup. Not looking forward to swapping pads for street vs track but it needs to be done. Last track day was horrible, pad transfer made it feel like I was driving on rumble strips while braking.

The cars computer doesn't know which pad is in use, so the it will estimate an early demise of the stock pads. Easy fix is just resetting it... The computer is already way off and indicating new brakes on my stock setup, getting them checked just to exactly how much is left.
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options
2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2009, 01:06 AM   #51
M3 vert
Lieutenant Colonel
M3 vert's Avatar
Canada
48
Rep
1,804
Posts

Drives: F10 M5, E93 M3, '12 750ix
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Everywhere...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
You ar mixing the terms "warranty" and "maintenance". Warranties cover defective parts, maintenance plans cover service.
How am I mixing the two?

I am fully aware of the 4yrs.80KM Warranty which includes bumper to bumper warranty and scheduled maintenance here in Canada (Oil Changes etc...)

the All-Inclusive Service Package is additional coverage which supplements the 4yrs/80K coverage is offered for 4yrs/80K or 5yrs/96K (also note the K means Kilometres!)
This includes wear and tear items such as mentioned earlier, brake pads, rotors, clutch, wiper blades, and other adjustments!

So I was responding to SlammedM3's response!



Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Originally Posted by slammedm3
not true my friend

there is an additional warranty you can buy for your car for $1000 bucks, and it covers your brakes and clutch for 3 years I believe. it must be done when the car is new or less than 1 year old (or 20 000 km)

I know it works differently in US, but the OP is in CANADA!!!

So if he gets this all-inclusive coverage he would be covered for brakes and everything else in the wear and tear dept!
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2009, 11:00 AM   #52
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
United_States
395
Rep
7,904
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 Coupe, 2012 ML350
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Warranty vs. Maintenance

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 vert View Post
How am I mixing the two?

I am fully aware of the 4yrs.80KM Warranty which includes bumper to bumper warranty and scheduled maintenance here in Canada (Oil Changes etc...)
Just semantics, but the "Warranty" covers product defects; the "Maintenance plan" covers scheduled service. Maintenance is not part of the warranty program, though they have the same term for coverages.

"New Car Limited Warranty.
BMW Canada Inc. (BMW Canada) warrants to the first retail purchaser, and each subsequent purchaser, of Canadian specification vehicles imported by BMW Canada, or sold through the BMW Canada European Delivery Program to be free of defects in material or workmanship."

"No-charge Scheduled Maintenance.
From model year 2006 on, BMW vehicles purchased from an authorized BMW Retailer in Canada are covered by No-charge Scheduled Maintenance for 4 years or 80,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier."

The Maintenance Upgrade plan includes coverage for consumables like brakes, which the US gets as standard.
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2015 M4 Coupe - Silverstone/Sakhir/CF
2012 ML350
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2009, 03:47 AM   #53
M3 vert
Lieutenant Colonel
M3 vert's Avatar
Canada
48
Rep
1,804
Posts

Drives: F10 M5, E93 M3, '12 750ix
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Everywhere...

iTrader: (0)

Greg,

No offense but you dont have to break this for me, i know these things, this isnt my first BMW

Warranty and Scheduled Maintenance are two seperate things and they are rolled into one coverage from the factory which is how you explained it!

The OP has a canadian M3 which is why I recommended him to purchase the maintenance upgrade to cover his brakes! (Also in response to slammedm3's post, I went over the pricing)
In addition this upgrade is also refered to as all-inclusive service plan!




Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Just semantics, but the "Warranty" covers product defects; the "Maintenance plan" covers scheduled service. Maintenance is not part of the warranty program, though they have the same term for coverages.

"New Car Limited Warranty.
BMW Canada Inc. (BMW Canada) warrants to the first retail purchaser, and each subsequent purchaser, of Canadian specification vehicles imported by BMW Canada, or sold through the BMW Canada European Delivery Program to be free of defects in material or workmanship."

"No-charge Scheduled Maintenance.
From model year 2006 on, BMW vehicles purchased from an authorized BMW Retailer in Canada are covered by No-charge Scheduled Maintenance for 4 years or 80,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier."

The Maintenance Upgrade plan includes coverage for consumables like brakes, which the US gets as standard.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2018, 04:03 PM   #54
Scharbag
Lieutenant
Scharbag's Avatar
Canada
317
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Saskatoon

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
So, yeah, I googled E92 M3 rotor life and got routed to this thread...

I have to say that I have never ever read so much misinformation in a single thread in my life. Wow.

Change rotors with pads... LMFAO. BMW kool-aid must be pretty tasty.

__________________

2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, AlpineMSS, Dinan Stuff
2011 E90 328xi 6MT
2013 Scooby Impreza 5MT
"When you start thinking you may get hurt, it's time to get out of racing."
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2018, 05:41 PM   #55
jritt@essex
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
220
Rep
324
Posts


Drives: CLS550, C6 Vette, Miata, MR2
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
Is BMW trying to pull one on me?
Yes.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2018, 08:14 PM   #56
admranger
Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
867
Rep
2,304
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3, 2016 X5 40e
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Alexandria, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
Is BMW trying to pull one on me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Yes.
Not so fast. I mean, when your rod bearings wear out BMW makes you replace the motor, so this seem legit.
__________________
'11 E90 M3, Mebourne/Black/Fox Red/Black, 6MT, PP2, heated seats, moonroof, split folding rear seats, iPod/USB adapter, Dinan F sway bar, Arc-8's, Technic harness, JL XD 6/600.

'16 X5 40e, Mineral White/Black Dakota Leather, ZLL, ZCW, ZDA, ZDB, ZPP, multi contour seats, HK
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2018, 09:07 PM   #57
TrAcK TRaP
bOrN To DiE
United_States
286
Rep
1,477
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
So, yeah, I googled E92 M3 rotor life and got routed to this thread...

I have to say that I have never ever read so much misinformation in a single thread in my life. Wow.

Change rotors with pads... LMFAO. BMW kool-aid must be pretty tasty.

Holy moly batman. You bumped 9 years old thread up.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2018, 11:40 PM   #58
Scharbag
Lieutenant
Scharbag's Avatar
Canada
317
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Saskatoon

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP View Post
Holy moly batman. You bumped 9 years old thread up.
Yup, yup I did.

Mostly because Google directed me to this absolute sequence of drivel...

YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO CHANGE ROTORS AND PADS AT THE SAME TIME UNLESS THE ROTORS ARE FUKED.

There - that is the truth of the matter.

Snoochy boochy!!
__________________

2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, AlpineMSS, Dinan Stuff
2011 E90 328xi 6MT
2013 Scooby Impreza 5MT
"When you start thinking you may get hurt, it's time to get out of racing."
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2018, 12:10 PM   #59
TrAcK TRaP
bOrN To DiE
United_States
286
Rep
1,477
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Yup, yup I did.

Mostly because Google directed me to this absolute sequence of drivel...

YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO CHANGE ROTORS AND PADS AT THE SAME TIME UNLESS THE ROTORS ARE FUKED.

There - that is the truth of the matter.

Snoochy boochy!!
It depends how you drive your car actually. Oem pads would last up to 60-70K miles so when you replace your pads without rotors you'll get another 60-70K with new pads but rotors wouldn't last 130-140K miles because bmw's rotors are softer than other cars rotors due to strong stopping power. Rears you should get away but I can't tell same about fronts. Your car your choice.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2018, 05:06 PM   #60
Scharbag
Lieutenant
Scharbag's Avatar
Canada
317
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Saskatoon

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP View Post
It depends how you drive your car actually. Oem pads would last up to 60-70K miles so when you replace your pads without rotors you'll get another 60-70K with new pads but rotors wouldn't last 130-140K miles because bmw's rotors are softer than other cars rotors due to strong stopping power. Rears you should get away but I can't tell same about fronts. Your car your choice.
Pads are cheap (not race pads, normal pads). So if the ridiculously expensive M3 rotors are OK (not warped, not too thin, not cracking) then put in new pads. Once the rotors NEED to be replaced, then change the rotors and pads. That way you get 100% of the wear out of your expensive rotors while wasting a minimal bit of money on the pads.

Cheers,
__________________

2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, AlpineMSS, Dinan Stuff
2011 E90 328xi 6MT
2013 Scooby Impreza 5MT
"When you start thinking you may get hurt, it's time to get out of racing."
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST