Contisport M3 tyres

[gr8000]

The following link:
http://www.conti-online.com/generato...p,tabNr=4.html

lists:
245/35 R19 93Y
265/35 ZR19 (98Y)

Would these not be an M3 fittment? Ok, maybe these tyres are not yet specifically designed / approved for the M3 but arent the specs as per OEM?

[Zero7]

Do you mean the 7th one on the list of 35 profile? If so it says:

245/35 R 19 93Y TL XL FR

I have no idea what the TL XL FR bit is..

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Zero7

Do you mean the 7th one on the list of 35 profile? If so it says:

245/35 R 19 93Y TL XL FR

I have no idea what the TL XL FR bit is..

Yes, 7th form the top under "35" profile.

As for the TL XL FR, there are legends at the bottom of the page explaining each annotation.

Bottomline, as far as I can understand this, both front and rears are 93Y and 98Y rated respectively i.e. both rated in excess of 186mph / 300km/h. This is as per OEM, no?

[Zero7]

Originally Posted by gr8000

Yes, 7th form the top under "35" profile.

As for the TL XL FR, there are legends at the bottom of the page explaining each annotation.

Bottomline, as far as I can understand this, both front and rears are 93Y and 98Y rated respectively i.e. both rated in excess of 186mph / 300km/h. This is as per OEM, no?

That is correct, I will pop into my dealers tomorrow and check, but the parts guy is a bit slow... he will need to check, I will also ask the guys at the tyre place to double check too.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Zero7

That is correct, I will pop into my dealers tomorrow and check, but the parts guy is a bit slow... he will need to check, I will also ask the guys at the tyre place to double check too.

Thanks, I will also do some serious cross-checking too before installation...

These tyres are not speficically annotated as M3 specifics but I dont see any differences to the M3 OEM specs...

[Ant Man]

Hi, as previously mentioned. Conti does not make and currently has no dates when the CSC5 will be available for the E92 M2. If they are making a tyre with the same dimensions, it's not engineered for the M3. This is straight from Continental UK.

[Ant Man]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

UP The Pressures too 36 PSI as I said .

Your car is the E90 and it weighs more than the E92 which I assuming Zero7 has. So we need to compare apples with apples.

I have spoken to Vredestein, Conti and Michelin and all have recommend rear pressures higher than the front for the E92. Why do you recommend 36 all round for the E90 pls?

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Hi, as previously mentioned. Conti does not make and currently has no dates when the CSC5 will be available for the E92 M2. If they are making a tyre with the same dimensions, it's not engineered for the M3. This is straight from Continental UK.

I am sure this is the case now that I have installed the plain CSC 5P (in M3 19' stock dimensions). Although still in the break in period, I am hugely disapointed by the lack of precision. The car feels like rowing from side to side when turning, as if you are in a boat. This can be dangerous too. I don't think this has to do with the break in (I hope I am proven wrong) - it probbaly has to do with the design overall vis a vis the specific application in the M3. These tyres either have way too soft sidewalls or there is something else that does not match with the M3 setup.

I will post my final verdict as soon as the tyres are properly broken in, but I am hugely disapointed with this choice - complete waste of money. I will try to correct as much of this as I can by playing with pressures and EDC settings but bottomline I will try to juice as much fun as I can out of these tyres and then probably get rid of them sooner rather than later.

It is quite confusing / misleading to see an M3 in the official Conti video adverstising the CSC5P.... If they haven't produced an M3 specific tyre, why the hell do they show an M3 in that video instead of a Merc or something?...

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Your car is the E90 and it weighs more than the E92 which I assuming Zero7 has. So we need to compare apples with apples.

I have spoken to Vredestein, Conti and Michelin and all have recommend rear pressures higher than the front for the E92. Why do you recommend 36 all round for the E90 pls?

because I have experimented a lot and found these pressures the best all round for me.
As I said in a another post a lot of the guys in the states run 38/40PSI. with no problems.

[AM3]

Been reading the last few posts with interests
Di some checking around with some guys at BMW dealerships I have been friendly with

Contisport 5's are not recommended for M3's

It has been on another post and I've seen this on the cutters UK forum too I'm probably sure

Have been running and checking higher pressures now for a two weeks and playing a bit the the EDC and the ride is much improved

Conti's 3 with 36 and 26 PSI although I havent tried 36 all around.

The car feels lighter, more responsive with a loot of feeling in the turn in, and in a straight line a softer almost more comfortable ride.

A

[Zero7]

Originally Posted by gr8000

I am sure this is the case now that I have installed the plain CSC 5P (in M3 19' stock dimensions). Although still in the break in period, I am hugely disapointed by the lack of precision. The car feels like rowing from side to side when turning, as if you are in a boat. This can be dangerous too. I don't think this has to do with the break in (I hope I am proven wrong) - it probbaly has to do with the design overall vis a vis the specific application in the M3. These tyres either have way too soft sidewalls or there is something else that does not match with the M3 setup.

I will post my final verdict as soon as the tyres are properly broken in, but I am hugely disapointed with this choice - complete waste of money. I will try to correct as much of this as I can by playing with pressures and EDC settings but bottomline I will try to juice as much fun as I can out of these tyres and then probably get rid of them sooner rather than later.

It is quite confusing / misleading to see an M3 in the official Conti video adverstising the CSC5P.... If they haven't produced an M3 specific tyre, why the hell do they show an M3 in that video instead of a Merc or something?...

I feel very sorry for you, from my point of view these tyres are not designed for the M3, as posted previously, the video is very misleading and I would take this up with continental directly to get an answer, I have also e-mailed them about Cont 5 application for the M3, expect to hear back tomorrow.

As previously mentioned, I had my geometry checked and it was pretty out, this is probably due to the airfield day I dud.

The front left camber was quite out as was the left rear, front and back right were not as bad.

I have upped the pressure to 34 front and 35 rear which together with the camber set-up has made the car feel much better. I have let the tyres bed into the new adjustments and today had a really nice 60 mile drive.

My overall conclusion is that the PS2's feel more lively than the conti's probably a touch more feel and feedback but with less adjustability. I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of feel for more on throttle mid corner adjustability so will be looking at getting some conti3's.

This has been a bit of a learning curve for me as i did not a change of tyre brand would have made so much difference to 'feel' and ultimately it's not about which tyre is better but which one I prefer.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Zero7

I feel very sorry for you, from my point of view these tyres are not designed for the M3, as posted previously, the video is very misleading and I would take this up with continental directly to get an answer, I have also e-mailed them about Cont 5 application for the M3, expect to hear back tomorrow.

As previously mentioned, I had my geometry checked and it was pretty out, this is probably due to the airfield day I dud.

The front left camber was quite out as was the left rear, front and back right were not as bad.

I have upped the pressure to 34 front and 35 rear which together with the camber set-up has made the car feel much better. I have let the tyres bed into the new adjustments and today had a really nice 60 mile drive.

My overall conclusion is that the PS2's feel more lively than the conti's probably a touch more feel and feedback but with less adjustability. I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of feel for more on throttle mid corner adjustability so will be looking at getting some conti3's.

This has been a bit of a learning curve for me as i did not a change of tyre brand would have made so much difference to 'feel' and ultimately it's not about which tyre is better but which one I prefer.

Thanks for your points - good to know.

I am also planning to send an email to Conti describing the situation and asking for advise, including recommended pressures. I will also point out to the fact that tyre dealers here haven't got a clue that 5Ps are not specifically designed for M3s and this (apparently) makes a huge difference, or they know but none of them will tell just to get the business done and screw the customer. I will also mention that the M3 video is misleading to say the least, part of the reason why I eventually chose to go for 5Ps. If you have their email handy please let me know - sometimes searching for these things can take time & lots of phonecalls left & right.

To the essense: I had my wheels checked before putting on the 5Ps. The guy who did the job is apparently (or alegedly) a guru of his kind, with state of the art machinery. No heating or machining of course, only re-pressing the wheels where appropriate in order to unbend them. I was told that my front right and left rear were a bit bent, the other two were relatively ok (but they were also "perfected"). I am stating this becuase it might have something to do with my issue - I don't know.

When the wheels came back to the tyre shop, the guys there put the new 5Ps on and balanced them. They used some 30-70 grams of weight on each wheel. Desn't seem too exesive to me on a c21/22kg wheel (tyre + rim).

Last step was the allignment. Front axis (especially front right) was pretty off, back was off too but not way off (I think it was within OEM spec). They re-aligned camber to 1.55 (OEM is 1.45 I was told) and all other geometry adjustments as per OEM spec. Then I took the car, I was told to follow a break in period over the following 300km and then come back to the shop for final re-alignment / fine tuning.

In terms of pressures, I left the shop with 33.3 F / 36.3 R (2.3bar F / 2.5bar R). I deflated the rear only to 34.8 R (2.4bar) just to follow exactly the OEM recommended pressures. That didn't do any good - probably what I need is higher pressures, especially rear, to stiffen the tyres a bit. I am thinking 35 F / 37 R. If this won't do any good, I will simply comlete the break in as is, take it in for re-alignment / fine tuning and see what the tyre dealer recommends. By that time I hope to have some (useful) feedback from Conti, although I highly doubt it.

Any feedback from tyre / geometry experts in this forum on how to make the handling more precise / sharp would be highly appreciated in the meantime.

[Zero7]

I will see if I can scan in a before and after Geo set-up as I have the print out, need to install the software on my mac book as PC is broken, should be able to do this in the evening.

[gr8000]

ok thanks, if you have the Conti email handy please pass it on to me (via PM or otherwise). Cheers

[Zero7]

Originally Posted by gr8000

ok thanks, if you have the Conti email handy please pass it on to me (via PM or otherwise). Cheers

No e-mail for Conti, just filled in a online form from their web site...

[Ant Man]

Zero7 - your comments about ultimately it's not which tyre is better but which you prefer is exactly right.

gr8000 - do you have the BMW geo settings? Your shop should give you a print out of before and after geometry settings. It's important that not only the total toe is within tolerance but side to side is equal as no good having +5 -5 with the total as 0. Also the rear wheels should be done first. If you want the car to turn in better, try experimenting with running reduce front toe-in. Reduce it in decremental minutes until you find the handling you prefer.

email of Continental 'administrator.technical@conti.de'
If anyone has a contact for Michelin, pls let me know.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Listen guys just try 36PSI front and 36 PSI rear, and if 4 people + luggage are on board 38PSI rears. Just give it a go.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Listen guys just try 36PSI front and 36 PSI rear, and if 4 people + luggage are on board 38PSI rears. Just give it a go.

I tried yesterday 36 F and 39 R and it doesn't help my case. Handling / feel continues to be as poor and on top the CSC5s have lost a bit of their grip. BTW, grip on those tyres is exceptional!

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

gr8000 - do you have the BMW geo settings? Your shop should give you a print out of before and after geometry settings. It's important that not only the total toe is within tolerance but side to side is equal as no good having +5 -5 with the total as 0. Also the rear wheels should be done first. If you want the car to turn in better, try experimenting with running reduce front toe-in. Reduce it in decremental minutes until you find the handling you prefer.

email of Continental 'administrator.technical@conti.de'

Thanks for your advise and for the Conti email.

I don't have a printout of the settings as the guy there screwed up and forgot to save the results (in spite of the fact that I had asked him 5 minutes ago.....). Nonetheless, I took notes durning the process and asked him to confirm the results in the end which he did.

I don't have the exact figures on the top of my head (will check though), but I remember very well that all settings were consistent / equal for each side.

Nonetheless, to take out of the equation the alignment factor, I will take my M3 to a different alignment shop (different machine & user). This one is alegedly the best alignment shop in Athens. I will report back when I have news. I will ask him to aim for stock M3 alignment.

Shall I do the alignment whilst seated on the drivers seat or not?

[Neil McRae]

conti's haven't changed since the CS1 on the E46.

Great in the dry, great in heavy rain. totally shocking in damp/greasy situations.

Neil.

[Ant Man]

Originally Posted by gr8000

Thanks for your advise and for the Conti email.

I don't have a printout of the settings as the guy there screwed up and forgot to save the results (in spite of the fact that I had asked him 5 minutes ago.....). Nonetheless, I took notes durning the process and asked him to confirm the results in the end which he did.

I don't have the exact figures on the top of my head (will check though), but I remember very well that all settings were consistent / equal for each side.

Nonetheless, to take out of the equation the alignment factor, I will take my M3 to a different alignment shop (different machine & user). This one is alegedly the best alignment shop in Athens. I will report back when I have news. I will ask him to aim for stock M3 alignment.

Shall I do the alignment whilst seated on the drivers seat or not?

The settings BMW provide is unweighted and they use KDS. Take the car to BMW to do it or someone who has a Hunter machine that is installed on a flat floor. Whichever settings you get, it's important to know if they are weighted or unweighted.

[gr8000]

Here is my log of the alignment. As previously mentioned it is based on my own notes / scriblings taken during the process. Thank God I did that becasue the guy *forgot* to save the data....

TOE
Rear left: +0.05 before; +0.05 after alignment
Rear right: +0.08 before; +0.05 after alignment
Front left: +0.10 before; +0.05 after alignment
Front right: -0.05 before; +0.05 after alignment

CAMBER
Rear left: -1.24 before; +1.45 after alignment
Rear right: -1.28 before; +1.45 after alignment
Front left: +1.10 before and after alignment
Front right: +1.10 before and after alignment

I am not sure if the above make any sense but this is what I have written down. If correct then my main issue is wrong camber. If the guy indeed changed Camber from negative to positive then this must be a serious fuckup and probably the source of my problems. Maybe not though (the machine would warn if something like that happended), so probably I have misunderstood the various readings.

Anyway, I will go to another alignment shop on Saturday and will report back. Don't know if they are using Hunter or KDS, but they are regarded as one of the best alignment shops arround - they also do racing car alignments.