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      06-23-2020, 03:13 PM   #23
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spooni i'm curious what kind of social distancing protocol was enforced? you and instructor both wearing helmet -> proper face covering for both?
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      06-23-2020, 03:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by byroncheung View Post
spooni i'm curious what kind of social distancing protocol was enforced? you and instructor both wearing helmet -> proper face covering for both?
No instructor - Ongrid required a face covering for group meetings and when going to get food.
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      06-23-2020, 04:47 PM   #25
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Good plan - I actually have a blackstone test that's unused.

Yeah that is a good plan. I just figured the original suspension is pretty tired anyhow - and it would nice to get some better alignment specs. That is great to hear! My next day is 7/11 and hopefully my boss is coming out so he can give me pointers! better yet, it'll be free!!



Definitely get an alignment. It will help you dial in the handling a bit, and should slow the rate of tire wear.

Something I forgot to mention is to get yourself an AIM Solo DL (or Solo 2 DL). Your coach will not be very effective without rich data. Don't bother with the clunky Harry's Laptimer or phone-based shit. Maybe your coach has a spare AIM he can loan you during the sessions?

Otherwise, make the investment yourself.
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      06-23-2020, 04:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Definitely get an alignment. It will help you dial in the handling a bit, and should slow the rate of tire wear.

Something I forgot to mention is to get yourself an AIM Solo DL (or Solo 2 DL). Your coach will not be very effective without rich data. Don't bother with the clunky Harry's Laptimer or phone-based shit. Maybe your coach has a spare AIM he can loan you during the sessions?

Otherwise, make the investment yourself.
I will check those out - thanks!!
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      06-23-2020, 05:29 PM   #27
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No instructor - Ongrid required a face covering for group meetings and when going to get food.
First time on track, ever?
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      06-23-2020, 05:51 PM   #28
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First time on track, ever?
Second time
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      06-23-2020, 06:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Definitely get an alignment. It will help you dial in the handling a bit, and should slow the rate of tire wear.

Something I forgot to mention is to get yourself an AIM Solo DL (or Solo 2 DL). Your coach will not be very effective without rich data. Don't bother with the clunky Harry's Laptimer or phone-based shit. Maybe your coach has a spare AIM he can loan you during the sessions?

Otherwise, make the investment yourself.
On the coaching topic, check out racers360; just tried for the first time. If you can get video with throttle, brake, speed, RPM, and clear video, it seems like plenty to work on. I was missing brake data and this was already incredible

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      06-23-2020, 08:39 PM   #30
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Second time
Oh cool. I was gonna say I would've been freaked out a bit if my first day was without an instructor. I feel like the first day is critical too. Like a young child, you just soak up so much information.
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      06-23-2020, 09:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Oh cool. I was gonna say I would've been freaked out a bit if my first day was without an instructor. I feel like the first day is critical too. Like a young child, you just soak up so much information.
This guy's first an HPDE was with one that didn't have instructors and he opted not to ask for a ride-along from the organizer. This was the result of half way through a warm-up lap on the first session -
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      06-23-2020, 09:28 PM   #32
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This guy's first an HPDE was with one that didn't have instructors and he opted not to ask for a ride-along from the organizer. This was the result of half way through a warm-up lap on the first session -
Eek. I guess some people need someone to tell them to go slower and some people need someone to tell them to go faster. I was the latter. My first day was slowww.
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      06-24-2020, 10:49 AM   #33
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On the coaching topic, check out racers360; just tried for the first time. If you can get video with throttle, brake, speed, RPM, and clear video, it seems like plenty to work on. I was missing brake data and this was already incredible

I will check that out!! Love your YT channel btw. I watched a ton of your T-hill vids before I went out.

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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Oh cool. I was gonna say I would've been freaked out a bit if my first day was without an instructor. I feel like the first day is critical too. Like a young child, you just soak up so much information.
The first session I was definitely moving slow and with caution. By the end of the day I gained a bit of confidence in myself and the car

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This guy's first an HPDE was with one that didn't have instructors and he opted not to ask for a ride-along from the organizer. This was the result of half way through a warm-up lap on the first session -
Yikes. I witnessed quite a few idiot moves from people in my beginner groups.. A couple spin-outs too.
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      06-24-2020, 12:00 PM   #34
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Yikes. I witnessed quite a few idiot moves from people in my beginner groups.. A couple spin-outs too.



You're far safer in beginner groups most of the time, IMO. There will be very strict rules for instructors being in cars, passing, lower speed laps, classroom time, and so on. Anyone who is going to be aggressive and dangerous is quickly exposed, but most are too timid the first times out to really go very fast and put things at risk.

Intermediate is the most dangerous because so many clubs are eager to promote people out of beginner without really vetting them. You have people who are *just* competent enough to not need an instructor but who are still very far from being comfortable keeping the car up to speed, looking for flags, traffic management, overall situational awareness, etc.
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      06-24-2020, 02:01 PM   #35
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Here's how I would bucket the incidents I see in the non-beginner HPDE groups. Your mileage may vary based upon the specific group you're out with, and even who shows up on a given day. These days, if I run with a new club, I try to get a check ride to advanced as soon as possible.

I'll be interested in what variations of this others have experienced.


Intermediate
-50% are from trains of cars because people don't check mirrors and have bad situational awareness
-25% are days ending early because of brake pad failures from "hybrid" pads / all season tires / boiled fluid (preventable mechanical issues)
-25% are spins from people who overdrive the car because no one is there to keep them smooth with inputs

Advanced
-95% are mechanical issues on trailered race cars (car blows the motor or just quits)
-5% are minor contact from two friends who usually run wheel-to-wheel and forget it's HPDE
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      06-24-2020, 05:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Yikes. I witnessed quite a few idiot moves from people in my beginner groups.. A couple spin-outs too.



You're far safer in beginner groups most of the time, IMO. There will be very strict rules for instructors being in cars, passing, lower speed laps, classroom time, and so on. Anyone who is going to be aggressive and dangerous is quickly exposed, but most are too timid the first times out to really go very fast and put things at risk.

Intermediate is the most dangerous because so many clubs are eager to promote people out of beginner without really vetting them. You have people who are *just* competent enough to not need an instructor but who are still very far from being comfortable keeping the car up to speed, looking for flags, traffic management, overall situational awareness, etc.
The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.
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      06-24-2020, 07:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Yikes. I witnessed quite a few idiot moves from people in my beginner groups.. A couple spin-outs too.



You're far safer in beginner groups most of the time, IMO. There will be very strict rules for instructors being in cars, passing, lower speed laps, classroom time, and so on. Anyone who is going to be aggressive and dangerous is quickly exposed, but most are too timid the first times out to really go very fast and put things at risk.

Intermediate is the most dangerous because so many clubs are eager to promote people out of beginner without really vetting them. You have people who are *just* competent enough to not need an instructor but who are still very far from being comfortable keeping the car up to speed, looking for flags, traffic management, overall situational awareness, etc.
The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.
Ah man, that's my run group... Hoping to get my TT check this weekend so I can leave HPDE all together.
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      06-24-2020, 07:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Yikes. I witnessed quite a few idiot moves from people in my beginner groups.. A couple spin-outs too.



You're far safer in beginner groups most of the time, IMO. There will be very strict rules for instructors being in cars, passing, lower speed laps, classroom time, and so on. Anyone who is going to be aggressive and dangerous is quickly exposed, but most are too timid the first times out to really go very fast and put things at risk.

Intermediate is the most dangerous because so many clubs are eager to promote people out of beginner without really vetting them. You have people who are *just* competent enough to not need an instructor but who are still very far from being comfortable keeping the car up to speed, looking for flags, traffic management, overall situational awareness, etc.
The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.
Ah man, that's my run group... Hoping to get my TT check this weekend so I can leave HPDE all together.
It could be regional...I am sure you're a fast and safe driver.
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      06-24-2020, 08:37 PM   #39
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The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.

Surprised to hear that. When was it? What happened?


I jumped from 3 (inter) to 4 (adv) as fast as I could. And then I did a TT check ride to get away from it all. ;-)
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      06-24-2020, 09:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.

Surprised to hear that. When was it? What happened?


I jumped from 3 (inter) to 4 (adv) as fast as I could. And then I did a TT check ride to get away from it all. ;-)
This was a few years ago in Texas. Pace and lines were off. Point bys weren't sharp or were slow to be given. Truly felt unsafe. I was doing TT at the time but had jumped into the 3 group for a session to shakedown some issues. TT spoils you as most everyone in that group can wheel a car.
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      06-25-2020, 07:01 AM   #41
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Quote:
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The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.
This post is so damn accurate. Running in DE4 is so much better, but they still hamstring you a bit by combining many of the sessions for 3/4, with Saturday being "play by DE3 rules"

Still can't wait to get to TT. I love the grid system by laptime and it makes things seem so damn smooth.
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      06-25-2020, 07:33 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
The only group that ever scared me off the track was NASA HPDE3.
This post is so damn accurate. Running in DE4 is so much better, but they still hamstring you a bit by combining many of the sessions for 3/4, with Saturday being "play by DE3 rules"

Still can't wait to get to TT. I love the grid system by laptime and it makes things seem so damn smooth.
Just jump to TT. When I started in 2014, I was 5-7 seconds off pace from the leaders but I always had clean laps and someone to chase.
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      06-25-2020, 07:37 AM   #43
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Just jump to TT. When I started in 2014, I was 5-7 seconds off pace from the leaders but I always had clean laps and someone to chase.
I'm working with the SE bosses now to try to get the check ride done at RRR in July. Last March at RA the TT boss told me that I could get the TT check ride done on Friday with the instructor clinic, but now the overall SE boss is saying that's not possible and I'll have to get a TT check either Saturday or Sunday. Fortunately I am friends with most of the TT3 guys, and one of them (Gary Trickett, white E92 with aero etc) is the guy who gave me my check ride to DE3 and DE4, as well as being my wife's first instructor. Great, great guy.
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      06-25-2020, 08:46 AM   #44
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NASA HPDE seem to vary from weekend to weekend, and of course amongst the different regions. If they have a shitty turn-out or are short on instructors, they start combining groups. I've also seen them do it if the schedule starts getting out of whack.

I agree that moving to TT should really be the ultimate goal of anyone who runs HPDEs often. I can't believe I waited so long to do it. My coach pretty much told me don't waste much time in HPDE4...once you are comfortable with unrestricted passing, just get the TT check ride.

At worst, you're out the stupid dyno/inspection fee and get a lot of great sessions with no traffic. At best, you get come contingency prizes from Hawk or Toyo.
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