Benefit of front lip?

['ringmeister]

Considering getting a rep gts style front lip but curious if there is any benefit from an aero/performance standpoint. My car is pretty mild DE spec...BBK, square setup with RE71Rs, ohlins with camber plates (-2.5 camber up front, 2 in back). Aero is stock except for carbon bmw M lip spoiler. I don't find that my car understeers badly in fast corners, and am pretty happy with overall balance currently. Am i just throwing away money? There is GB going on the part i'm considering (option 1) https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1745644. TIA

[SYT_Shadow]

There is an advantage of even mild GTS-style aero, but you should pair it with a GTS/replica wing in the back as well

[Epoustouflant]

Here's a thread I looked at when researching GTS parts;

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803423

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476271

TL: DR;
It helps at high speeds.
It's more about cancelling lift than providing aero.
You need the combo wing & lip.

[IMG]http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachm...8;d=1285904916[/IMG]

[dparm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

There is an advantage of even mild GTS-style aero, but you should pair it with a GTS/replica wing in the back as well

Thank you for posting this early, it drives me nuts when it takes 50+ posts in a discussion before someone mentions the idea of balanced aero.

The GTS lip was designed to work with the GTS rear wing. If you have only the lip, you are increasing front downforce and changing the balance of the car. Do you need more front downforce? Are you trying to fix a handling issue?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dparm

Thank you for posting this early, it drives me nuts when it takes 50+ posts in a discussion before someone mentions the idea of balanced aero.

The GTS lip was designed to work with the GTS rear wing. If you have only the lip, you are increasing front downforce and changing the balance of the car. Do you need more front downforce? Are you trying to fix a handling issue?

most people buying these products are doing it for their Cars and Coffee sessions, so they wouldn't have an issue. However, if this is asked in the track forum we need to provide guidance on it.

I would run the GTS front if I had the GTS rear. Doing one and not the other is not going to yield a positive result

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

most people buying these products are doing it for their Cars and Coffee sessions, so they wouldn't have an issue. However, if this is asked in the track forum we need to provide guidance on it.

I would run the GTS front if I had the GTS rear. Doing one and not the other is not going to yield a positive result

D, I know it's a long shot but any thoughts on running the GTS 2 piece lip in conjunction with the UCC Grand Am spec wing (as alternative to GTS style wing).

[dparm]

Originally Posted by DRLane

D, I know it's a long shot but any thoughts on running the GTS 2 piece lip in conjunction with the UCC Grand Am spec wing (as alternative to GTS style wing).

Kind of hard to say without knowing the aerodynamic properties of that UCC wing. If it generates more downforce than the GTS wing, you will have an imbalance. If it generates less, then you will again have an imbalance. Then again, maybe you need more downforce on the front or rear.

I would ask UCC for some information and explain what you are trying to do with the setup (e.g. "I need to add downforce in the back because of X"). Maybe they have some data they can share. I certainly wouldn't let them just say "oh yeah that will be fine". Fine for what? Your precise setup, driving style, and tracks you frequent?

Wouldn't want to see you spend money and install this shit and come back later saying, "my car understeers like a motherfucker now!"

Again, what is the car doing and what problem are you trying to solve?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DRLane

D, I know it's a long shot but any thoughts on running the GTS 2 piece lip in conjunction with the UCC Grand Am spec wing (as alternative to GTS style wing).

I don't see why not, but if it has more/less downforce than OEM it may not be a good result

The GTS one is designed so that when the front lip is extended the rear wing goes to max attack mode, and like that it's balanced.

Still, this will be more balanced than not having a rear wing at all.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by DRLane

D, I know it's a long shot but any thoughts on running the GTS 2 piece lip in conjunction with the UCC Grand Am spec wing (as alternative to GTS style wing).

No one runs this thing and I've been super tempted by it although the price feels a little steep to me considering you need to factor in paint still. Some portions of it remind me of the E36 LTW wing and I've always liked that look on those cars. I even did a lousy photoshop to see what I think it might look like on my own car.

I have to imagine it would work well with the GTS lip. Also keep in mind the GTS lip splitter is adjustable in and out which ought to have some minor affect on downforce (or cancelling lift). From all the images I've seen the Grand Am wing was run with a totally stock front bumper with no aero.

[kyippee]

I'm not convinced of the benefits of the cheaper / usual GTS style lips. I have a replica GTS wing and used to run a replica 2-piece GTS lip.

Later on I removed the lip, and I haven't really noticed a difference. I've had a better, faster driver test my car and the comments on setup were that it's still very balanced, and it's just a matter of spring rates. (too soft)

I suspect a real chassis mounted lip would do more than the typical aftermarket lips

[derbo]

Originally Posted by kyippee

I'm not convinced of the benefits of the cheaper / usual GTS style lips. I have a replica GTS wing and used to run a replica 2-piece GTS lip.

Later on I removed the lip, and I haven't really noticed a difference. I've had a better, faster driver test my car and the comments on setup were that it's still very balanced, and it's just a matter of spring rates. (too soft)

I suspect a real chassis mounted lip would do more than the typical aftermarket lips

I can imagine the true GTS replica with the chassis-mounted would actually do something. I don't recall the RW carbon GTS 2pc lip you had being chassis mounted like the GTS.

The wind tunnel article with the GTS lip at @125mph at 7kg of downforce vs lift in the factory car. Granted its at very high speed but still is a difference.

[kyippee]

Yea as we chatted over IG messages, I believe the real GTS lip does something, but the one I had (replica, not chassis mounted) didn't have a significant impact.

Also for practical use, the amount of time we spend at 125 mph is minimal. I hit that at the end of the Laguna Seca T1-T2 run, and spend some time at ~130mph at the end of Thunderhill's long straightaway, but the rest of the corners.. they're probably 80-100 mph for high speed corners like Sonoma's T10 and Thunderhill East T8. I doubt the speed is high enough to feel a difference there.

I think there's a difference between what's shown in real, valid data in a windtunnel with certain conditions vs. what we actually encounter in real life. Just gotta take that wind tunnel speed into account to make sense of the differences in practice.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by kyippee

I'm not convinced of the benefits of the cheaper / usual GTS style lips. I have a replica GTS wing and used to run a replica 2-piece GTS lip.

Later on I removed the lip, and I haven't really noticed a difference. I've had a better, faster driver test my car and the comments on setup were that it's still very balanced, and it's just a matter of spring rates. (too soft)

I suspect a real chassis mounted lip would do more than the typical aftermarket lips

With an AIM Solo DL, you could measure yaw rate and see if the car has more understeer or oversteer.