Test Drove one Today (review from a GT3 driver)

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by ersin

There has been talk of the car being "watered down" performance-wise before the 1200 mile break-in. This could explain some first driving impressions as less than impressive. It is just a rumor. But, yeah, you really need to rev her past 5500 rpm to get the real beast to show.

I also assume, and I have first-hand experience with this with my E46 M3, that the engine will continue getting stronger for a few thousand miles.

Yeah, I have heard of the "detuning" nature until you bring it in for the first service...could be true. I asked my rep and he did not know if it was true or not.

[AW_M3]

What was the interior color? and what do u think of it? Extended or not? how did it Look?
Thanks for the great review!

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by AW_M3

What was the interior color? and what do u think of it? Extended or not? how did it Look?
Thanks for the great review!

Interior was black nov. extended with alum trim. I ordered black nov with alum. So this was very similar to what I am ordering...minus the extended.

I really liked it. Great fit and finish. I don't think the extended is worth it, at least in black. many others have said that too...and I tend to agree. the leather is VERY soft and nice. Its so soft, I may even drive mine naked. lol

[ersin]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

... the leather is VERY soft and nice. Its so soft, I may even drive mine naked. lol

Man, I sure hope the chicks like this car.

[e46e92love]

Two things:

1) As far as the space between the stalks and the steering wheel and whether there will be room for the paddles, I currently own a e92 335i with the paddle shifters. Yes, the shifters are different then the M-DCT but I can tell you that there will be no space issues.

2) The subs take up no space under the seats, they look exactly the same as those in the premium sound system in the e92 335i premium sound system, which also has two subs (one under each front seat.). The speaks are covered by a plastic grate and are flush with the floor, so I guess their are dropped into the floor boards.

Don't know if this information is useful to you GTS Tim!!

Regards,
e46e92

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Two things:

1) As far as the space between the stalks and the steering wheel and whether there will be room for the paddles, I currently own a e92 335i with the paddle shifters. Yes, the shifters are different then the M-DCT but I can tell you that there will be no space issues.

2) The subs take up no space under the seats, they look exactly the same as those in the premium sound system in the e92 335i premium sound system, which also has two subs (one under each front seat.). The speaks are covered by a plastic grate and are flush with the floor, so I guess their are dropped into the floor boards.

Don't know if this information is useful to you GTS Tim!!

Regards,
e46e92

Yeah, useful info. Thanks!

I am glad to hear the paddles work out in the 325. I am sure they will be fine in the M, it was just something I noticed in the 6MT.

As for the speakers, interesting. I figured the sub were only for the Enhanced Sound, but all 3 M's they had were loaded, and had enhanced sound, so I could not compare. I guess if we want lower seats, we need to go aftermarket! However, I will be tearing into the car when i get it and see if something can be done, but I kinda doubt it.

Thanks again for the info....Tim

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Yeah, useful info. Thanks!

I am glad to hear the paddles work out in the 325. I am sure they will be fine in the M, it was just something I noticed in the 6MT.

As for the speakers, interesting. I figured the sub were only for the Enhanced Sound, but all 3 M's they had were loaded, and had enhanced sound, so I could not compare. I guess if we want lower seats, we need to go aftermarket! However, I will be tearing into the car when i get it and see if something can be done, but I kinda doubt it.

Thanks again for the info....Tim

Well, my 335i's sound system is not that far from the premium one in the M. No doubt the M's premium sound is better, but the premium sound in the 335's cost a pretty penny as well, and after listening to the M's sound its definitely better but it still leaves me impressed with my 335's sound system, the bass on both systems is sick---- sick in that its very strong and balanced even when you turn the sound almost all the way up------most systems don't have enough power to push all that bass at higher decibel levels nor quality speakers that are able to handle it and maintain tonal quality.

That all being said I would also like to sit a little bit lower in my e92 335i, and the now the e92 M, especially since they are coupes.....be curious to see how far race seats would drop that.....though I think you would also have to change the bracket system which has as much affect on the seating position and that is a little bit more difficult, is it not?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Well, my 335i's sound system is not that far from the premium one in the M. No doubt the M's premium sound is better, but the premium sound in the 335's cost a pretty penny as well, and after listening to the M's sound its definitely better but it still leaves me impressed with my 335's sound system, the bass on both systems is sick---- sick in that its very strong and balanced even when you turn the sound almost all the way up------most systems don't have enough power to push all that bass at higher decibel levels nor quality speakers that are able to handle it and maintain tonal quality.

That all being said I would also like to sit a little bit lower in my e92 335i, and the now the e92 M, especially since they are coupes.....be curious to see how far race seats would drop that.....though I think you would also have to change the bracket system which has as much affect on the seating position and that is a little bit more difficult, is it not?

Good to know, thanks!!!

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

That all being said I would also like to sit a little bit lower in my e92 335i, and the now the e92 M, especially since they are coupes.....be curious to see how far race seats would drop that.....though I think you would also have to change the bracket system which has as much affect on the seating position and that is a little bit more difficult, is it not?

I think the drop will be significant for at least one reason....racing seats are "thin". There is about an inch between the seat bottom and seating surface, typically. The M3 seats look like they are about 5-6" deep! lol Could be more, will have to wait and see one when I rip it out.

As for brackets, yeah, that will be a challenge at first, but I bet somebody will make brackets for it soon enough. Also, with a good race seat, you can adjust front and rear height and thus angle, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

I think the drop will be significant for at least one reason....racing seats are "thin". There is about an inch between the seat bottom and seating surface, typically. The M3 seats look like they are about 5-6" deep! lol Could be more, will have to wait and see one when I rip it out.

As for brackets, yeah, that will be a challenge at first, but I bet somebody will make brackets for it soon enough. Also, with a good race seat, you can adjust front and rear height and thus angle, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Of course, then some of the reason you left your GT3 disappears because I know one thing, those racing seats won't be nearly as comfortable for anything other than really short trips

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Of course, then some of the reason you left your GT3 disappears because I know one thing, those racing seats won't be nearly as comfortable for anything other than really short trips

LOL. Yeah, true, but I am used to them. I have the "euro GT3" seats in my car now and they are basically racing shells with a bit of padding. Anything more than a 30 minute ride becomes a bit uncomfortable...mostly due to the fact that you are basically locked in one position and cannot stretch or move easily!

Here are the seats I have, as seen in a turbo. I also have the 5-point harness, but in red. The second pic is a frontal shot from a site I frequent for parts.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

LOL. Yeah, true, but I am used to them. I have the "euro GT3" seats in my car now and they are basically racing shells with a bit of padding. Anything more than a 30 minute ride becomes a bit uncomfortable...mostly due to the fact that you are basically locked in one position and cannot stretch or move easily!

Here are the seats I have, as seen in a turbo. I also have the 5-point harness, but in red. The second pic is a frontal shot from a site I frequent for parts.

Wow, thats not your GTS on the left is it? Thats the 996tt right? Because if its yours I was gonna say I didn't think the GTS and a left peddle delete option, and if it does, you don't sound like I guy who would delete it.

Nice seats, can I ask, since I have never sat in any for more than a minute, how the racing seats hold you more than deep bucket seats on the M3 with the adjusting side bolsters? Are the race seats that much better? I always though that now a days with the design of the M seats and the deep side bolsters that adjust that the only real advantage of the race seats is weight savings and look. Am I completely wrong?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

LOL. Yeah, true, but I am used to them. I have the "euro GT3" seats in my car now and they are basically racing shells with a bit of padding. Anything more than a 30 minute ride becomes a bit uncomfortable...mostly due to the fact that you are basically locked in one position and cannot stretch or move easily!

Here are the seats I have, as seen in a turbo. I also have the 5-point harness, but in red. The second pic is a frontal shot from a site I frequent for parts.

Really nice seats for racing etc... agree with you that they may be a bit uncomfortable in long rides though.

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Wow, thats not your GTS on the left is it? Thats the 996tt right? Because if its yours I was gonna say I didn't think the GTS and a left peddle delete option, and if it does, you don't sound like I guy who would delete it.

Nice seats, can I ask, since I have never sat in any for more than a minute, how the racing seats hold you more than deep bucket seats on the M3 with the adjusting side bolsters? Are the race seats that much better? I always though that now a days with the design of the M seats and the deep side bolsters that adjust that the only real advantage of the race seats is weight savings and look. Am I completely wrong?

Well, the differences are huge. Compared to stock seats, even in an M3, they are WAY better at controling your body. Really, there is no comparison, they are two completely different animals! You simply do not move at all in a shell with a 5-point...NADA. With an M seat, you will not have the lateral support of a shell, not even close. You can put in a 4-point harness and improve it greatly, but it is not the same. You just have to sit in a few shells to see. Go to the next HPDE at your local track and bring your helmet. Ask some of the guys going out if you can ride along. Pick cars that have racing seats. The difference will be huge.

As for the pics...the first pic is of a TURBO with the same seats. That is not my car, just the same seats and harness type. I don't have a pic of my seats in my car.....so I just used the pic of the turbo to illustrate.

edit: Even though my seats are somewhat of a racing shell, they are not true racing shells. A true racing seat/shell will also have much more bolstering on the torso and even head. However, that would TOTALLY suck for a street car!

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Well, the differences are huge. Compared to stock seats, even in an M3, they are WAY better at controling your body. Really, there is no comparison, they are two completely different animals! You simply do not move at all in a shell with a 5-point...NADA. With an M seat, you will not have the lateral support of a shell, not even close. You can put in a 4-point harness and improve it greatly, but it is not the same. You just have to sit in a few shells to see. Go to the next HPDE at your local track and bring your helmet. Ask some of the guys going out if you can ride along. Pick cars that have racing seats. The difference will be huge.

As for the pics...the first pic is of a TURBO with the same seats. That is not my car, just the same seats and harness type. I don't have a pic of my seats in my car.....so I just used the pic of the turbo to illustrate.

edit: Even though my seats are somewhat of a racing shell, they are not true racing shells. A true racing seat/shell will also have much more bolstering on the torso and even head. However, that would TOTALLY suck for a street car!

Great, you know you could have lied to me, because now you just created another thing I need to have, and thus another expense.........if only they could invent a tree that grows money..........

[GT3 Tim]

Na...you wont need better seats man...

The first thing to work on is SEAT TIME. Get your butt out there and learn to drive it on the track. I did not do hardly anything to my old M's besides brakes/fluids for a LONG time. Racing seats are a bit overkill for 99% of the people out there, seriously. If you just install a good 4-point in your car, like Schroth's or similar, it will be MORE than enough for a long time.

The most important thing, in all honesty, is track TIME. There is a LOT to learn. I caution everybody I know that wants to, or is tracking, to NOT upgrade their cars (intakes, exhaust, seats, etc, etc.) until they are at an advanced level. You will not be driving the car at even 90% of its ability for many many trackdays. Learn to drive it to its ability first, then upgrade. Seriously.

edit: Once you can drive the car to its ability, then start playing with camber and toe settings, upgrade the suspension, etc. After you can drive the car to its ability consistently, you will then be able to feel the differences and be able to fine tune the car to your driving style/liking. If you do that crap before you can really "feel it", it is pointless and may actually slow your progression.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Na...you wont need better seats man...

The first thing to work on is SEAT TIME. Get your butt out there and learn to drive it on the track. I did not do hardly anything to my old M's besides brakes/fluids for a LONG time. Racing seats are a bit overkill for 99% of the people out there, seriously. If you just install a good 4-point in your car, like Schroth's or similar, it will be MORE than enough for a long time.

The most important thing, in all honesty, is track TIME. There is a LOT to learn. I caution everybody I know that wants to, or is tracking, to NOT upgrade their cars (intakes, exhaust, seats, etc, etc.) until they are at an advanced level. You will not be driving the car at even 90% of its ability for many many trackdays. Learn to drive it to its ability first, then upgrade. Seriously.

edit: Once you can drive the car to its ability, then start playing with camber and toe settings, upgrade the suspension, etc. After you can drive the car to its ability consistently, you will then be able to feel the differences and be able to fine tune the car to your driving style/liking. If you do that crap before you can really "feel it", it is pointless and may actually slow your progression.

I 100% agree, I have no plans to tune my M for years because there is no way I am good enough to drive it to its limits----NO WAY IN HELL.

How hard is it to install a five point on a normal M seat?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I 100% agree, I have no plans to tune my M for years because there is no way I am good enough to drive it to its limits----NO WAY IN HELL.

How hard is it to install a five point on a normal M seat?

If you go on track say three or four times a year, and maybe one time with an instructor, you will learn to drive your car to the limit in a reasonably short time. I’m already driving mine to the limit (albeit on track and have done so on several vehicles) after only a couple of months!!!

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I 100% agree, I have no plans to tune my M for years because there is no way I am good enough to drive it to its limits----NO WAY IN HELL.

How hard is it to install a five point on a normal M seat?

You wont be able to install a 5-point on an M seat as the 5-point has a sub-strap (ie: the one that crushes your nuts). Being as there is no hole in the seat, you can't do it. You CAN install a 4-point though...which is more than enough to keep you planted in the seat. Just tighten the hips first, then the shoulders!

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

If you go on track say three or four times a year, and maybe one time with an instructor, you will learn to drive your car to the limit in a reasonably short time. I’m already driving mine to the limit (albeit on track and have done so on several vehicles) after only a couple of months!!!

I recommend you get instruction every time...you will be amazed at how much you learn. Also, like school, we only teach you what we want you to know...then, once we see you are proficient, we introduce another thing or two. It's a natural progression.....just like being in school. So even though we introduce a few concepts, etc. and you have mastered them, does not mean that there is all there is too it.

Again, I strongly recommend you get instruction for a LONG time. I was "instructed" for 6 years. For the last 3, I have been instructing others.

You can get instruction all the way into actual racing techniques, passing, etc. etc. etc. There is definately a lot to it! I stopped before going into race-only tpye instruction as I do not plan to race. i don't have the time or the $$ to do it! Plus, I wanted to keep track days "fun" and non-competative! As soon as you cross that threshold, it is less fun and moe work and worry. lol. I dipped my toes in it and said "forget it", it is more fun to just come and run in a session and not race. Of course, that is just me....

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

I recommend you get instruction every time...you will be amazed at how much you learn. Also, like school, we only teach you what we want you to know...then, once we see you are proficient, we introduce another thing or two. It's a natural progression.....just like being in school. So even though we introduce a few concepts, etc. and you have mastered them, does not mean that there is all there is too it.

Again, I strongly recommend you get instruction for a LONG time. I was "instructed" for 6 years. For the last 3, I have been instructing others.

You can get instruction all the way into actual racing techniques, passing, etc. etc. etc. There is definately a lot to it! I stopped before going into race-only tpye instruction as I do not plan to race. i don't have the time or the $$ to do it! Plus, I wanted to keep track days "fun" and non-competative! As soon as you cross that threshold, it is less fun and moe work and worry. lol. I dipped my toes in it and said "forget it", it is more fun to just come and run in a session and not race. Of course, that is just me....

I couldn’t agree with you more!!!! My appologies if I came through too strong!! I really have not had as much instruction as you and am by no means ready to be an instructor. However, I have been to the Porsche high speed driving course on 911TT’s and Cayman S’s 3 times, F1 training course on a 2003 (or 04 can’t recall) Cosworth powered Minardi, Mercedes-Benz AMG driving school several times, SLR McLaren driving school in the South of France, and have personally hired Champ-Car driver Mario Dominguez (whom loves M3’s by the way) to instruct me on the E92 M3 on the F1 race track. And yes, every time I get instructed I do not only greatly enjoy it, but learn new things as well. Its also great, great fun to watch these guys drive you car to show you and then you go!!!!! In any event, driving the car to the limit does not necessarily mean (at all IMO) that I am an expert driver and that there is no room for improvement, what I mean is that with intermediate skills you are already reaching the limits of the car and probably the more novice you are, the faster you will reach those limits!!! Hahahaha!!! And well, with on track instruction at least once a year, you should be OK, but the more the merrier!!!!

[GT3 Tim]

No bashing intended! You have had some AWESOME experiences at various tracks/ cars. WOW!!

I was more posing my response to E46E92 Love as I think he is new to the tracking thing. I always try to pound into them that it is all about seat time at this point....I have been whipped in my modded M3 by a guy in a stock one before...it is 90% driver, 10% car, and that is what I try to instill in the new guys.

Peace....

Edit: Thnking back, I actually took "classes" for 8 years, not 6. lol. Or would that be 7? I started in 1997. Whatever.