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06-06-2011, 05:10 PM | #1 |
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GT3 RS 4.0
Any specific reason why the flat 6 4.0L makes 500hp vs the M3's v8 4.0L?
I'm geniunely curious. Higher compression ratio, etc? Seems to run similarly spec'd otherwise, even down to the peak power, redline, etc. Just looking at the motor itself. |
06-10-2011, 07:35 PM | #3 | |
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The GT3 RS 4.0 is a more highly tuned engine with less compromises! The S65 is a pretty amazing engine but their are other manufacturers who make more HP per litre NA than BMW M does with the S65. Ferrari and Porsche are the two manufacturers that come quickly to mind. One thing to note is that BMW has engineered the S65 with a broad torque curve whereas Porsche and Ferrari Engines generally have less low end torque and are therefore not as relaxed to drive around on a day to day basis. The thing about Ferrari's and Porsche GT3's is that they are performance cars through and through and are engineered with ultimate performance in mind. The M3 was engineered to be a car that you can daily drive yet take to the track on the weekend! |
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06-11-2011, 05:05 AM | #5 | |
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Have a look at the torque curve of a 997 GT3...... you can see that the torque peak is over 5000RPM. You are right that the bottom end is far from soft however it is not as flat as the S65's torque curve where the peak is a 3900RPM and remains nearly flat till well above 7000RPM. [IMG]http://www.****************/DynoGraphs/ID00058-1288748480-APEPERFORMANCE.COM.jpeg[/IMG]
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06-11-2011, 09:30 AM | #6 |
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Apparently the crankshaft used is the exact one from the 911 GT3 RSR race car. It sounds like an actual race car with registration plates, a 7:27 ring time is the claim.
If that is true, it's only 3 seconds off of the GT2 RS time and a massive 13 seconds faster than the 911 GT3 RS. The "standard" 911 GT3 is 7 seconds slower than the GT3 RS. All of these times are for Sport Auto by the same driver, Horst Von Saurma. So, the difference between the "Super Extreme Hardcore" Porsche, and the "Super Hardcore" one is almost double the difference between the "Super Hardcore" version of the "Hardcore" one. And breathe out...
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06-11-2011, 11:51 AM | #7 | |
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06-11-2011, 11:59 AM | #8 | |
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06-11-2011, 02:07 PM | #9 | |
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I was just trying to point out that porsche went for all out performance from the GT3 but M obviously compromised when building the S65 so they could get a nice flat torque curve at the expense of maximum output....... The S65 could have made more output with some wilder cams and a bit higher compression but I think M accomplished what they set out to do when building it. Like was mentioned a few posts above, the M3 is not even in the same league as the GT3....... that is why my next car is going to be one! |
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06-11-2011, 07:23 PM | #10 | |
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I love when others say that it should because of what you pay for a GT3 or any car for that matter. You pay more you get more. When is more too much, $30k, $40k, $80k, >$100k? That's a question only the buyer can answer. Last edited by devo; 06-11-2011 at 07:31 PM.. |
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06-11-2011, 07:34 PM | #11 | |
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06-12-2011, 12:52 AM | #12 |
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i love the GT3 and the RS. this GT2 RS is pretty sick
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dd...er_id=45253959
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06-12-2011, 07:01 PM | #14 | |
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06-12-2011, 07:08 PM | #15 |
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That's a bold statement (which I'm sure many informed people may disagree with as I have not read anything but GLOWING reviews of the 458 compared to almost anything else produced)... what's the basis for this opinion?
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06-12-2011, 07:28 PM | #16 |
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Here is my 2010 997.2 GT3 dyno (higher # is with exhaust, but lost low end trq) other # is stock. Pretty flat line. Gt3 makes 317 lb ft and 435 hp .... M3 is 295 lb ft and 414hp
Porsche did an amazing job and so did bmw. You have to consider that the porsche costs a lot more. Although you could pick up a used 997.1 GT3 which had 299 lb ft and 415 hp out of a 3.6 liter flat 6 for 70k
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06-13-2011, 12:09 AM | #18 |
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higher compression. GT3RS is 13:0 I believe. The Boxer engine is able to produce a lot of torque for a 6 cyclinder. More too it than just that thou.
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06-13-2011, 06:38 AM | #19 | |
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I wasn't calling you out on your comment nor was I implying I knew anything of relevance. All I was saying was that it was a very "bold" comment to make and wanted to know what supported it, I.e. Did you drive them both. You are one of the lucky few to have experienced both... thanks for the insight. I have experienced the GT3 RS but none of the others. It was an amazing car for sure but I would not be able to make a comparison to anything else (other than it was the most insane fun of any car I have experienced).
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06-14-2011, 01:31 AM | #20 | |
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not quite. Sport Auto has not conducted their own test of the GT3 RS 4.0 yet.
That time is a manufacturer time which tends to be lower than HvS laps but with porsches they are pretty close. Sport Auto: GT2 RS - 7:24 GT3 RS (3.8L) - 7:33 Porsche Claims GT2 RS - 7:21 GT3 RS (4.0L) - 7:27 GT3 RS (3.8L) - 7:31 Also as another reference, the current ZR1 time is 7:19. GM claimed the first generation ZR1 did a 7:25 Sport Auto with HvS driving did a 7:38. all in all, the times at the ring are very hard to repeat. way too many variables on that track even on the same day with back-to-back runs. The Mezger engine in the GT3's is a work of art. It was originally used in the GT1 and has been in every GT 911 car since. It is also the same engine used in the 911 GT3 Cup car. The porsche community is now worried about the future 911 GT3 engines as the 4.0 is the final farewell to this engine. Porsche folks don't like change much as evidenced by the 911. Its all about evolution and refining what works. On the flip side of the coin BMW tends to take a more radical approach and reinvents itself, never looking back. I actually like both approaches which is why I think I will always have both products in the garage. Quote:
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06-14-2011, 11:30 AM | #21 |
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I actually know someone who ordered one. Specs look amazing.
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06-14-2011, 02:14 PM | #22 |
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I saw one at the dealership the other day. All I can say is wow, except for the stickers. Peal them off and that this is aboslutely perfect.
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