BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wash, Wax, Detail, Cosmetic Maintenance & Repairs
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-05-2015, 01:14 AM   #1
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Paint correction on Jet Black E92 - thin clear coat

Jet Black E92 needs some love. Lots of marring on the hood when you look closely. Took to Auto Concierge in Fremont and had the paint depth measured. The trunk was ok at around 115 microns, but the rest of the car was between 61 and 85 or so. Not much room left to correct and maintain the factory clear coat.

So at this point I'm considering options.

If we do any more correction on the paint, that's about it I think. That'd be the last time it could be polished. So I would need to follow up either a coating or a wrap. That way I'm maintaining the coating or sealant instead of exposing the paint to more wear and tear.

Wraps: Suntek or XPEL
Coatings: Cquartz, Modesta, Opticoat, etc

What I'm looking for is someone who's been in a similar situation with the dreaded Jet Black E92 where the car had just been brutalized by a past detailer.

Feeling bad enough about this, so advising me that I should have had the paint depth measured before I bought the car doesn't really help. Looking for constructive comments to get the car's exterior in good shape.

Thanks in advance.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2015, 03:11 AM   #2
Properstyle
Major
326
Rep
1,116
Posts

Drives: 2011 e90 ZCP m3
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Miramar, FL

iTrader: (0)

That's insane, m3 have extreme te thick clear coat I wonder if the previous owns have used a rotary to do one and have cut the clear down like that.

My suggestion do with what you can just polish the car. Don't do a cut. Keep it light.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2015, 03:38 AM   #3
pooyab
Captain
pooyab's Avatar
131
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Off topic but how expensive is Auto Concierge? And can I go to just get a quote? The car has a fair amount of swirls and one or two scratches from last owner.
__________________
BayOptiks DTM Headlights | Satin Nero Pearl Wrap | BPM Tune | Ohlins R&T | Bimmerworld X-Pipe | Miesterschaft GT2 | Harrop BBK | Black TE37RT | MFactory CF Driveshaft | Hotchkis F/R Sways | F/R Endlinks | Rogue Rear Toe Arms and Front Tension Bushings | Powerflex Diff Bushings | MS Solid Subframe Bushings | MS Underdrive Pulley and Intake | Dinan Strut Bars | Dinan DCT Tune | Mode Carbon Spoiler | CF Side Skirts | CF Mirror Caps
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2015, 04:45 PM   #4
Helmsman
Brigadier General
Helmsman's Avatar
Sweden
1426
Rep
3,866
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Wow, previous guy most have been heck of a polisher man. Curious, does that mean the orange peal is all gone now?
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2015, 05:35 PM   #5
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Wow, previous guy most have been heck of a polisher man. Curious, does that mean the orange peal is all gone now?
Still a decent amount of orange peel, but I'm not sure how much it had from the factory
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2015, 09:44 PM   #6
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

So if I don't really have enough clear coat to work with long term, is it worth it to do one more correction then lay down either a wrap or a coating to lock that in? That way I'll be maintaining the coating/wrap instead maintaining the paint.
Appreciate 0
      04-07-2015, 03:48 PM   #7
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Leaning towards one more paint correction, repainting the hood+bumper (to get rid of minor rock damage) then wrapping the whole car in XPEL. That way I'll have a 10 year warranty on the wrap, very minor scratches/swirls will self-heal, and I'll be maintaining the clear coat on the wrap instead of the (very soft) factory paint.

Won't be cheap, but the car should be like new after this.
Appreciate 0
      04-07-2015, 04:30 PM   #8
vsix
Lieutenant Colonel
vsix's Avatar
No_Country
524
Rep
1,609
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 sold, M4 F82
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietrichf View Post
Jet Black E92 needs some love. Lots of marring on the hood when you look closely. Took to Auto Concierge in Fremont and had the paint depth measured. The trunk was ok at around 115 microns, but the rest of the car was between 61 and 85 or so. Not much room left to correct and maintain the factory clear coat.

So at this point I'm considering options.

If we do any more correction on the paint, that's about it I think. That'd be the last time it could be polished. So I would need to follow up either a coating or a wrap. That way I'm maintaining the coating or sealant instead of exposing the paint to more wear and tear.

Wraps: Suntek or XPEL
Coatings: Cquartz, Modesta, Opticoat, etc

What I'm looking for is someone who's been in a similar situation with the dreaded Jet Black E92 where the car had just been brutalized by a past detailer.

Feeling bad enough about this, so advising me that I should have had the paint depth measured before I bought the car doesn't really help. Looking for constructive comments to get the car's exterior in good shape.

Thanks in advance.
Then take some cash in your hand's and repaint the car from scratch.
It's not such a big of a deal, just a few k but very well and wise spent considering you'd like to keep this car for a long time.
Appreciate 0
      04-07-2015, 04:39 PM   #9
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsix View Post
Then take some cash in your hand's and repaint the car from scratch.
It's not such a big of a deal, just a few k but very well and wise spent considering you'd like to keep this car for a long time.
I was thinking it would be upwards of $16k to do a ground up high quality jet black paint job on the car. Could be way off though.
Appreciate 0
      04-07-2015, 04:45 PM   #10
vsix
Lieutenant Colonel
vsix's Avatar
No_Country
524
Rep
1,609
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 sold, M4 F82
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietrichf View Post
I was thinking it would be upwards of $16k to do a ground up high quality jet black paint job on the car. Could be way off though.
I really don't know what you have to pay but that's pretty spot on what I payed for mine a few week's ago.
Man it's like everything in life, you got to set priorities. Don't think to long about it, you want a cool azs looking M3? Go for it instead of polishing and burning money on all kind of stuff.
You know what to do? Get various paint shop's give you a quote.
Just let them know you aren't a money throwing dummy.
Show them not only but just because you drive an M you know how to keep your money together.
Refer to shop's you already contacted and let them know you have a rough estimate...give them pressure...otherwise you get ripped off.
Competition is a B... Let her work for you

Last edited by vsix; 04-07-2015 at 04:51 PM.
Appreciate 0
      04-07-2015, 04:57 PM   #11
dietrichf
New Member
dietrichf's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 E92 ZCP JB Akra
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsix View Post
Competition is a B... Let her work for you
heh thanks. Anyone know of any great paint shops in the Bay Area? Bob at Auto Concierge has a place he works with that I'll probably get an estimate from. Curious about other places in the area I can talk to for comparison.

The car looks pretty nice for now so it's not a huge huge rush. But I'd like to do it this year. Any help shopping around would be
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2015, 07:36 AM   #12
ddas
Second Lieutenant
ddas's Avatar
102
Rep
248
Posts

Drives: 2018 Daytona Violet M3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

It's practically impossible that someone removed 40+ microns of clear from an e90/2 m3. Most do not even have that amount of clear total to give up. If the finish is absolutely free of orange peel, MAYBE someone has been too aggressive and removed a bunch.

Bob is a real expert on PC but you should have the paint read with a PDG that can read individual layers, thus revealing the true amount of clear coat you have.

If Bob's PDG only reads the total depth of paint, I do not blame him for saying no thanks for doing PC with those measurements. But that's why it's good to have something like a Positector b3 advanced.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2015, 02:11 PM   #13
rjd598
Major General
rjd598's Avatar
United_States
565
Rep
6,088
Posts

Drives: E90 M3/ F30 328i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 328i  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
Off topic but how expensive is Auto Concierge? And can I go to just get a quote? The car has a fair amount of swirls and one or two scratches from last owner.
bob is considered one of the best in the industry. you get what you pay for. i'm sure you can call him and get a good estimate from him.

you do realize the cost difference between wrapping your car and coating it right? pretty big difference. if it were me i would get my car coated in modesta. they have some very good coatings even above mc-05 just can't remember what they are right now. wrapping is a great option, but the cost compared to a coating like modesta would turn me off.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2015, 05:37 PM   #14
JR M3
Member
JR M3's Avatar
8
Rep
277
Posts

Drives: E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
bob is considered one of the best in the industry. you get what you pay for. i'm sure you can call him and get a good estimate from him.

you do realize the cost difference between wrapping your car and coating it right? pretty big difference. if it were me i would get my car coated in modesta. they have some very good coatings even above mc-05 just can't remember what they are right now. wrapping is a great option, but the cost compared to a coating like modesta would turn me off.
BC-03, BC-04 and PD coating are the other Modesta options
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2015, 05:47 PM   #15
rjd598
Major General
rjd598's Avatar
United_States
565
Rep
6,088
Posts

Drives: E90 M3/ F30 328i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 328i  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR M3 View Post
BC-03, BC-04 and PD coating are the other Modesta options
i know pd is the newest one, but for some reason thought there was another one that stood above them all.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2015, 10:03 PM   #16
ddas
Second Lieutenant
ddas's Avatar
102
Rep
248
Posts

Drives: 2018 Daytona Violet M3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

These others bring up a valid option, Modesta coatings.

Modesta has probably your best solution if you really do have thinner clear coat. You can have P-01A applied and then topped with BC-05 which will provide you with a substantial additional layer of protection.

If you have deep pockets and want the best Modesta offering, the PD coating will give you the closest thing to a bullet-proof coating. It is not for the faint of heart in terms of cost. The yearly cost alone would make most detailers blush. The fluorine topcoat for the PD coating is stunning.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2015, 05:55 PM   #17
pooyab
Captain
pooyab's Avatar
131
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Just had my clear coat measured. Ranged from 120 to 90 on all panels. So I'll probably be doing a coating of some sort on mine too.
__________________
BayOptiks DTM Headlights | Satin Nero Pearl Wrap | BPM Tune | Ohlins R&T | Bimmerworld X-Pipe | Miesterschaft GT2 | Harrop BBK | Black TE37RT | MFactory CF Driveshaft | Hotchkis F/R Sways | F/R Endlinks | Rogue Rear Toe Arms and Front Tension Bushings | Powerflex Diff Bushings | MS Solid Subframe Bushings | MS Underdrive Pulley and Intake | Dinan Strut Bars | Dinan DCT Tune | Mode Carbon Spoiler | CF Side Skirts | CF Mirror Caps
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2015, 12:20 PM   #18
Greg@DetailedImage
Brigadier General
United_States
116
Rep
3,496
Posts

Drives: clean and protected
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
Just had my clear coat measured. Ranged from 120 to 90 on all panels. So I'll probably be doing a coating of some sort on mine too.
This is about average across the board these days. We work on all kinds of cars from brand new vehicles, to classics, and while paint characteristics varies greatly between automotive manufacturers, one thing is consistent... they are all thin.



^Reading on 2011 BMW M3


It is common for newer vehicles to have around 100-150 microns of total paint thickness, sometimes more, sometimes less (keeping in mind that this includes primer, base and clear coat). The only layer that really matters is the clear coat layer. Once the clear has been penetrated, you're out of luck. As already mentioned, most electronic paint thickness gauges only measure total paint thickness and therefore do not allow you to read exact clear coat levels unless you have an ultrasonic gauge which is a costly investment.

Routine polishing truly removes very little material at all and can therefore be performed on a fairly regular basis (yearly at most in my opinion) without ever seeing any issues, however if you do not maintain your vehicle properly and require heavy correction every couple of years, you're certainly limiting the life of your paint. Proper maintenance is critical, as safe washing and drying will drastically reduce the amount of defects and the severity of defects introduced into the paint overtime. This translates to polishing less frequently and less aggressively which means your paint will last a very long time.

In my article about paint coatings, one of the key benefits that I discuss is the fact that a paint coating will add material to the surface of your paint. This is something that traditional waxes or sealants will not do. Consider this hypothetical situation - you polish your vehicle and remove 2 microns of clear coat every year for 10 years. This totals 20 microns of material removed, which in most situations is no cause for concern, however what if you could remove much less over time? If you apply a paint coating after polishing, you are adding back an average of 1.5-2 microns in most instances (some coatings claim to add more). This means that after the coating has been applied, light swirls and scratches will then reside in the coating layer, and next time you polish the car you will be removing the coating and very little (if any) paint, so over time the total amount of paint removed will be much less than a vehicle that has not been coated.

The Benefits of a Paint Coating by Zach McGovern


Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2015, 12:23 PM   #19
pooyab
Captain
pooyab's Avatar
131
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg@DetailedImage
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
Just had my clear coat measured. Ranged from 120 to 90 on all panels. So I'll probably be doing a coating of some sort on mine too.
This is about average across the board these days. We work on all kinds of cars from brand new vehicles, to classics, and while paint characteristics varies greatly between automotive manufacturers, one thing is consistent... they are all thin.



^Reading on 2011 BMW M3


It is common for newer vehicles to have around 100-150 microns of total paint thickness, sometimes more, sometimes less (keeping in mind that this includes primer, base and clear coat). The only layer that really matters is the clear coat layer. Once the clear has been penetrated, you're out of luck. As already mentioned, most electronic paint thickness gauges only measure total paint thickness and therefore do not allow you to read exact clear coat levels unless you have an ultrasonic gauge which is a costly investment.

Routine polishing truly removes very little material at all and can therefore be performed on a fairly regular basis (yearly at most in my opinion) without ever seeing any issues, however if you do not maintain your vehicle properly and require heavy correction every couple of years, you're certainly limiting the life of your paint. Proper maintenance is critical, as safe washing and drying will drastically reduce the amount of defects and the severity of defects introduced into the paint overtime. This translates to polishing less frequently and less aggressively which means your paint will last a very long time.

In my article about paint coatings, one of the key benefits that I discuss is the fact that a paint coating will add material to the surface of your paint. This is something that traditional waxes or sealants will not do. Consider this hypothetical situation - you polish your vehicle and remove 2 microns of clear coat every year for 10 years. This totals 20 microns of material removed, which in most situations is no cause for concern, however what if you could remove much less over time? If you apply a paint coating after polishing, you are adding back an average of 1.5-2 microns in most instances (some coatings claim to add more). This means that after the coating has been applied, light swirls and scratches will then reside in the coating layer, and next time you polish the car you will be removing the coating and very little (if any) paint, so over time the total amount of paint removed will be much less than a vehicle that has not been coated.

The Benefits of a Paint Coating by Zach McGovern


Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com
So it should be fine to detail a couple more times? Our jag paint thickness varies between 180-150 so I guess it has a longer lifespan than mine.
__________________
BayOptiks DTM Headlights | Satin Nero Pearl Wrap | BPM Tune | Ohlins R&T | Bimmerworld X-Pipe | Miesterschaft GT2 | Harrop BBK | Black TE37RT | MFactory CF Driveshaft | Hotchkis F/R Sways | F/R Endlinks | Rogue Rear Toe Arms and Front Tension Bushings | Powerflex Diff Bushings | MS Solid Subframe Bushings | MS Underdrive Pulley and Intake | Dinan Strut Bars | Dinan DCT Tune | Mode Carbon Spoiler | CF Side Skirts | CF Mirror Caps
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2015, 12:39 PM   #20
Greg@DetailedImage
Brigadier General
United_States
116
Rep
3,496
Posts

Drives: clean and protected
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
So it should be fine to detail a couple more times? Our jag paint thickness varies between 180-150 so I guess it has a longer lifespan than mine.
Certainly should be fine. If the vehicle does not require extensive correction, I would not hesitate when it comes to routine polishing every 1-2 years for many many years to come. Just keep in mind that proper maintenance to reduce the risk of creating swirls is much easier and cheaper than polishing the paint to remove the defects

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2015, 12:51 PM   #21
pooyab
Captain
pooyab's Avatar
131
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg@DetailedImage
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooyab View Post
So it should be fine to detail a couple more times? Our jag paint thickness varies between 180-150 so I guess it has a longer lifespan than mine.
Certainly should be fine. If the vehicle does not require extensive correction, I would not hesitate when it comes to routine polishing every 1-2 years for many many years to come. Just keep in mind that proper maintenance to reduce the risk of creating swirls is much easier and cheaper than polishing the paint to remove the defects

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com
This time it needs a decent amount of work due to previous owners, but afterwards it should be much less. Thanks
__________________
BayOptiks DTM Headlights | Satin Nero Pearl Wrap | BPM Tune | Ohlins R&T | Bimmerworld X-Pipe | Miesterschaft GT2 | Harrop BBK | Black TE37RT | MFactory CF Driveshaft | Hotchkis F/R Sways | F/R Endlinks | Rogue Rear Toe Arms and Front Tension Bushings | Powerflex Diff Bushings | MS Solid Subframe Bushings | MS Underdrive Pulley and Intake | Dinan Strut Bars | Dinan DCT Tune | Mode Carbon Spoiler | CF Side Skirts | CF Mirror Caps
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2015, 08:55 PM   #22
mpower4life
Private First Class
mpower4life's Avatar
6
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: E36 Avus Blue M3 / E39 M5 / M4
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA

iTrader: (0)

A coating will not keep your car from being marred and scratched... especially being that super soft jet black paint. Listen to Bob, he knows his stuff and I have worked with him multiple times.
__________________
BMW: THE ATHLETE IN A SUIT
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:33 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST