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      11-20-2017, 08:15 AM   #1
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Anyone had failures with Harrop's SC kit?

Hi team, I'm leaning really hard on getting one of these and am wondering if anyone knows of failures, and if so, what?

I'm guessing a rod, rod bearing, or mains, but want to hear from any first handers.

P.S. I know bearings in these cars go even without superchargers but whatever, share away.
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      11-20-2017, 09:01 AM   #2
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Unfortunately, in general failures of any kit are hidden behind non disclosure agreements or directly removed from the forum when the vendor is a sponsor.

Then you have the fanboys which got a deal in exchange for their unwavering support.

It's pretty hard to determine the truth nowadays


Personally I have not heard of any failures of this kit that was swept under the rug.
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      11-20-2017, 09:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Unfortunately, in general failures of any kit are hidden behind non disclosure agreements or directly removed from the forum when the vendor is a sponsor.

Then you have the fanboys which got a deal in exchange for their unwavering support.

It's pretty hard to determine the truth nowadays


Personally I have not heard of any failures of this kit that was swept under the rug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Unfortunately, in general failures of any kit are hidden behind non disclosure agreements or directly removed from the forum when the vendor is a sponsor.

Then you have the fanboys which got a deal in exchange for their unwavering support.

It's pretty hard to determine the truth nowadays


Personally I have not heard of any failures of this kit that was swept under the rug.
Keeping it real.
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      11-20-2017, 08:07 PM   #4
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Supercharger kits are essentially the same, they provide a compressed source of air to the engine. They will have their subtle differences but ultimately the tune will be the biggest factor in long term reliability of the S65. As far as the kit goes, I haven't read of any kits that failed due to design error. They all seem to be as reliable as the next one. Components can fail at any time though as you are introducing boost into a high revving race engine stuffed into a street car.

My 2cents
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      11-20-2017, 08:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millie View Post
Supercharger kits are essentially the same, they provide a compressed source of air to the engine. They will have their subtle differences but ultimately the tune will be the biggest factor in long term reliability of the S65. As far as the kit goes, I haven't read of any kits that failed due to design error. They all seem to be as reliable as the next one. Components can fail at any time though as you are introducing boost into a high revving race engine stuffed into a street car.

My 2cents
I guess I was looking to hear if people found main bearings in these engines failed earlier, or maybe they threw rods.
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      11-20-2017, 10:58 PM   #6
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One good point about the Harrop kit is that the belt is in line with the stock belts.
This is what I was told about other kits
Quote:
But a word of warning, and this is important. When supercharging your car please avoid any kit that adds an extended crank pulley in front of the existing pulley. It will put a disproportionate load on the front bearings and catastrophic engine failure may result.
I've had this happen to me. I also know 3 other friends who put a sc kit with this configuration on the car, in every case the front mains bearings failed, spun and cracked the block requiring a new engine
One engine was rebuilt and then pulled down after about 2000ks only to find the front bearings were about to fail.
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      11-21-2017, 12:11 AM   #7
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I've had the Harrop SC on my car for over 3 years, with over 27,000km on it. For me there has only been some minor issues, like initially one of the hoses was too short for my car (fixed with a samco) and that at one point the butterfly was stuck open after a track day (re-aligned the butterfly). Both of these issues in my POV was a QC/shipping issue with Harrop being in Australia and me being in Hong Kong. I'm sure these minor issues has been fixed now because no one else has had them.

I have an oil change every 6 months or 5000km, whichever comes first, with 9 litres of 10w60 oil. No issues whatsoever.
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      11-21-2017, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
One good point about the Harrop kit is that the belt is in line with the stock belts.
This is what I was told about other kits
That info is not necessarily wrong, but Harrop is the only kit that doesn't put the supercharger pulley in front of the crank pulley so naturally they would say this to sell more of their own kits. Centrifugal supercharger kits for this platform have been around for almost a decade and installed on thousands of cars. While there have been examples of main bearing failures, the reality is that they are few and far between and certainly much more rare than rod bearings failures. To say every type of supercharger other than Harrop is destined for main bearing failure is quite an exaggeration (or a sales pitch) IMO.

In terms of reliability, one can make the argument that the low end torque produced by the Harrop kit is more detrimental to the engine's health than the added load on the main bearings from a centri kit. I would expect accelerated rod bearing wear from the Harrop kit relative to a centri kit from the stress at low RPM, though that's speculative at this point.

With that said, I don't think any kit is more reliable than the other and anyone who supercharges an S65 should accept the calculated risk they are taking. It's worth it.
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      11-21-2017, 12:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
One good point about the Harrop kit is that the belt is in line with the stock belts.
This is what I was told about other kits
That info is not necessarily wrong, but Harrop is the only kit that doesn't put the supercharger pulley in front of the crank pulley so naturally they would say this to sell more of their own kits. Centrifugal supercharger kits for this platform have been around for almost a decade and installed on thousands of cars. While there have been examples of main bearing failures, the reality is that they are few and far between and certainly much more rare than rod bearings failures. To say every type of supercharger other than Harrop is destined for main bearing failure is quite an exaggeration (or a sales pitch) IMO.

In terms of reliability, one can make the argument that the low end torque produced by the Harrop kit is more detrimental to the engine's health than the added load on the main bearings from a centri kit. I would expect accelerated rod bearing wear from the Harrop kit relative to a centri kit from the stress at low RPM, though that's speculative at this point.

With that said, I don't think any kit is more reliable than the other and anyone who supercharges an S65 should accept the calculated risk they are taking. It's worth it.
You guys are going to think I'm nuts but I actually think a supercharger belt would help balance out the forces on the main bearings. Back of a napkin force diagram would show a bunch of rods pushing down and some belts pulling up...totally discounting whatever pulling the rods are doing at higher speeds throwing a piston around...its certainly way more complicated....

Boxer engines are known to be easier on their mains because of the balance right?....
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      11-21-2017, 11:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
That info is not necessarily wrong, but Harrop is the only kit that doesn't put the supercharger pulley in front of the crank pulley so naturally they would say this to sell more of their own kits.
I didn't say harrop was the only kit that did this, just something to look out for.
And that email wasn't from Harrop.
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      11-22-2017, 01:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
That info is not necessarily wrong, but Harrop is the only kit that doesn't put the supercharger pulley in front of the crank pulley so naturally they would say this to sell more of their own kits.
Harrop isn't the only one. Some others do, and some others don't.
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      11-22-2017, 08:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaron14 View Post
I've had the Harrop SC on my car for over 3 years, with over 27,000km on it. For me there has only been some minor issues, like initially one of the hoses was too short for my car (fixed with a samco) and that at one point the butterfly was stuck open after a track day (re-aligned the butterfly). Both of these issues in my POV was a QC/shipping issue with Harrop being in Australia and me being in Hong Kong. I'm sure these minor issues has been fixed now because no one else has had them.

I have an oil change every 6 months or 5000km, whichever comes first, with 9 litres of 10w60 oil. No issues whatsoever.

Did u sell your SC?
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      11-22-2017, 08:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
I didn't say harrop was the only kit that did this, just something to look out for.
And that email wasn't from Harrop.
I didn't say you said Harrop was the only one and I didn't say that email was directly from Harrop. I agree with you that it's something to look out for, as I said in my earlier post. I was simply pointing out what the email was alluding to, and the fact that it seemed bias/promotional and a bit misleading in the way it was worded. I interpreted it as "anything other than Harrop will blow up your engine, here's some rather extreme anecdotal evidence of high failure rates."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
Harrop isn't the only one. Some others do, and some others don't.
Which ones don't? Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm most familiar with the Vortech-based kits so it's possible I'm missing something in regards to the Rotrex kits.
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      11-22-2017, 09:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus E90 M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaron14 View Post
I've had the Harrop SC on my car for over 3 years, with over 27,000km on it. For me there has only been some minor issues, like initially one of the hoses was too short for my car (fixed with a samco) and that at one point the butterfly was stuck open after a track day (re-aligned the butterfly). Both of these issues in my POV was a QC/shipping issue with Harrop being in Australia and me being in Hong Kong. I'm sure these minor issues has been fixed now because no one else has had them.

I have an oil change every 6 months or 5000km, whichever comes first, with 9 litres of 10w60 oil. No issues whatsoever.

Did u sell your SC?
I am still driving the car with the SC
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      11-22-2017, 12:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
Which ones don't? Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm most familiar with the Vortech-based kits so it's possible I'm missing something in regards to the Rotrex kits.
Kits that drive from the crank pulley:
ESS (Vortech)
Evolve (Rotrex)
G-Power (ASA)
Harrop (Eaton)
VF (Vortech)

Kits that don't drive from the crank pulley and use their own pulley:
AA (Rotrex)
Gintani (Vortech)

Almost all kits on the market drive from the crank pulley, not the opposite.

Maybe you're referring to those who drive from the inner crank pulley instead of the crank accessory belt pulley? Evolve drives from the inner crank pulley, not sure about Harrop. Although I'd consider the inner crank pulley more risk for the engine because if the belt breaks, you lose the water pump as well. This is why most other kits don't do this.
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      11-22-2017, 02:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
Kits that drive from the crank pulley:
ESS (Vortech)
Evolve (Rotrex)
G-Power (ASA)
Harrop (Eaton)
VF (Vortech)

Kits that don't drive from the crank pulley and use their own pulley:
AA (Rotrex)
Gintani (Vortech)

Almost all kits on the market drive from the crank pulley, not the opposite.

Maybe you're referring to those who drive from the inner crank pulley instead of the crank accessory belt pulley? Evolve drives from the inner crank pulley, not sure about Harrop. Although I'd consider the inner crank pulley more risk for the engine because if the belt breaks, you lose the water pump as well. This is why most other kits don't do this.
The way I understand the main bearing wear argument is that adding the SC to the accessory belt pulley adds downward force on the crankshaft, thus putting more load on the front main bearings causing them to wear faster. By using the inner crank pulley, the leverage is reduced. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something?

Which of the above kits would not put more load on the main bearings? Harrop and Evolve?
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      11-22-2017, 09:41 PM   #17
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Haven't heard of a single engine hardware issue from any of our customers running the kit to date.

Still loving my kit years later. Definitely prefer that the supercharger be driven off the crank pulley in line with the other main accessories.
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      11-22-2017, 10:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Haven't heard of a single engine hardware issue from any of our customers running the kit to date.

Still loving my kit years later. Definitely prefer that the supercharger be driven off the crank pulley in line with the other main accessories.
Would you feel comfortable installing this kit on an engine with factory installed mains? I'm still sorting out a replacement engine for my original that failed due to 2 ruined front mains. I want to install the kit but am still reeling from the senseless fail of my original engine....
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      11-23-2017, 12:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk996 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Haven't heard of a single engine hardware issue from any of our customers running the kit to date.

Still loving my kit years later. Definitely prefer that the supercharger be driven off the crank pulley in line with the other main accessories.
Would you feel comfortable installing this kit on an engine with factory installed mains? I'm still sorting out a replacement engine for my original that failed due to 2 ruined front mains. I want to install the kit but am still reeling from the senseless fail of my original engine....
Pretty sure every kit out there is using the factory mains.. Some elected to change rod bearings and some haven't. I usually recommend rod bearings based on mileage and if an 08-10 build. I've seen issues on kits that don't use this pulley configuration on the mains, but haven't with this kit yet.
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      11-26-2017, 03:48 AM   #20
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I have the ESS supercharger kit (~600HP). My engine blew up on stock internals and stock bearings (NOT related to the supercharger). My rod bearings seized as per usual. I should have changed them, and ESS recommends changing them (I bought the kit used so didn't speak to ESS first). I don't think all stock engines with stock bearings fail, but if something is gonna fail, it's most likely those rod bearings. Mine would likely have failed eventually even without the supercharger.

The first replacement engine I bought ended up being scrap because it had major main bearing issue which actually cracked the block on 3 of the support structures (starting at the seat of the main bearing all the way down to the cylinder). No idea what happened to it, though I'm guessing serious overheating. I was quite upset as the seller wouldn't take it back despite selling it as a rebuildable engine. Shows that mains do fail occasionally, though pretty rare.

Anyway, rod bearings are the most likely thing to fail. Definitely recommend upgrading those on your new engine. If you will have the crank out then may as well do coated mains too. I went with VAC coated mains and BE rod bearings on the new build.

Thanks!

S.
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