Serious question: cell tower being built behind us, should we be worried?

[GregTheStig]

We recently learned that a property owner that lives in a forest behind our neighborhood is going to let a company build a cell phone tower on his property and it's going to be really close to my parent's house.

Cliff notes:

-Douchebag property owner is letting a company build a tower on his property which is right behind my parent's house. It's already been approved and it seems to be closer to us than we were lead to believe. His property is in another city (we live in the city line).

-The tower will definitely be visible to most of the neighborhood and kill our property values. We feel like we were thrown under the bus so he could make money. The tower itself is also going to be closer to our neighborhood than it is to his house!

-My parents are also worried about possible health risks as my mother is a cancer survivor. Is there any reason to be worried about the RF waves coming out of that tower?

-Is there any hope of getting compensation for the hit we're gonna take on our property? Our homeowner's association has an attorney who thinks we can stop the tower from going in or at least get money out of it.


I also drew out a diagram at the bottom to kinda give you an idea of where everything is and how close it'll be to our house.

-------------------------------------

Full story:


The man (I'll refer to him as "douchebag" for now) owns a bunch of land behind us. A few months ago my parents noticed a bunch of surveyors walking around back there and when asked what they were doing they said something along the lines of "we're just taking measurements for some estate thing because the original owners died and they're passing it on to their sons" or some BS like that. The property in question is a heavily wooded area and we and our neighbors were afraid they were going to sell it to a developer so they could build more homes back there. We offered to buy some of their land closest to us but they refused. Now we know why.

About 3 weeks ago we got a letter from some company saying that a cell tower was going to be built 450ft north of our property back in the woods. This is interesting because our town is very strict about towers because our town is "too fancy" for cell towers. The property that man owns isn't in our city (we live right on the city's boundaries) and their laws about stuff like this is more relaxed. At least our town's city council was still going to be holding a hearing about this. Of course, we were out of town when the letter arrived and we missed the hearing. Apparently almost everyone else in our neighborhood did too. So the tower got approved and they've started clearing out a few trees back there. Now we've realized that it's a lot closer than 450ft. Probably more like 200ft or less. So a nearly 200ft tower is going to be visible to most of the neighborhood. (I drew an awesome diagram to kind show you where it's all going to be in relation to our house)

Now we're freaking the fuck out about what it's going to do to our property values. We talked to our real estate agent and she pretty much said it'll be impossible unless we take a huge hit on it.

Also, my mother is a breast cancer survivor and she's pretty much been told that we need to live pretty far away from cell towers - certainly more than a couple hundred feet.

In the end we just feel like we've been thrown under the bus. That douchebag gets to profit will we all take a hit to our property value and have to stare at that fucking thing. Our city wouldn't allow a cell tower anywhere else, so they put it just outside the city limits and right by a fucking neighborhood. And it's not like we live in a trashy neighborhood either. There are some people here with big money (not really us) and we're all shocked that we're really the only ones who seem to have a problem with it.

Our homeowner's association has an attorney on hand and right now it seems like we can at least get some compensation out of this, but who knows.


So my question for all of you who bothered to read all this is this:

A) Do you guys think we have a chance at getting some sort of compensation out of the company?

B) Any Realtors out there think we would really have a hard time selling a house with a fucking phone tower in sight?

C) Is there really a reason for my parents or their neighbors to be concerned about their health from this thing? I've read up on the issue a bit and it seems like there isn't much to worry about at first, but what about in the long run?



I would really appreciate whatever feedback or suggestions you guys might have for me and my family.




... for your troubles (NSFW) - http://thechive.com/2010/12/29/anony...ias-30-photos/


Also look at the totally awesome drawing that shows kinda where everything is and where the tower is going in. Notice how it's going to be closer to use than it is to him. Mother fucker. (Green shit is the forest. The pine trees are pretty tall, but not tall enough to block out a 200ft tower. Black lines are roads, brown shit is the houses).

[1sikbmr]

your artistic skills are far superior to mine.

[M_Six]

The neighborhood I grew up in bordered hundreds of acres of forest in the next town. The folks on the street closest to the town border had rock walls running just behind their yards to mark the border. That town allowed a developer to put in a huge industrial park on that land because the land was cut off from the rest of their town by a highway. It made perfect sense for them. The folks in our neighborhood ended up with factories a crab apple throw from their houses. (I know because we used to throw crab apples over the few remaining trees to see if we could hit the buildings.)

Our town tried to fight the building of factories so close to our houses, but had no legal grounds to stop it.

Cliff notes: You're screwed.

[Echo M3]

As far as the health risk goes, I have not seen any studies that indicate living near a cell phone tower increases your risk for cancer or any other ailments.

However, it's still an active area of research - mainly since cell phone towers haven't been around long enough to determine really long-term effects.

Here's a source that might help

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...r-phone-towers

[vioaltec]

your at a higher risk for cancer

[AngelinIsRich08]

Actually, cell phones emit SAR radiation which in large amounts has been proven to cause cancer. I would not want to be living next to a cell phone tower which constantly emits this radiation and in large amounts. I would advise your parents to sue whoever is building it and have him move it.

[GarySL]

Neighbor built his dream home, told my wife that they would have to bury him before he moved out, raised a family & fought hard against a cellphone tower installation next to his property. He lost the cellphone tower fight (the tower added more sending/receiving units since).

He recently died of brain cancer. The family sold the place (to friends of ours with a young family!).

[Kiemyster]

I wouldnt worry too much of it. I grew up in an apartment building and there was a cell tower right in perfect sight of my room. lol.

anyways, this is a fun chart and since we are talking about such things ima throw it in here.

[timmahh]

Will they at least do the one that looks like a fake tree?

[shipill]

lucky bastard , you'll get better reception at home

[GregTheStig]

Originally Posted by pman10

As far as the health risk goes, I have not seen any studies that indicate living near a cell phone tower increases your risk for cancer or any other ailments.

However, it's still an active area of research - mainly since cell phone towers haven't been around long enough to determine really long-term effects.

Here's a source that might help

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...r-phone-towers

I read that same article earlier and it answered a lot of questions for me, but my mother claims to have found a study conducted in Germany where they determined that if you lived within 1/4 mile of a cell tower you were 3 times more likely to have cancer. I still haven't seen the actual study, but she damn near had a stroke when she read it.

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

Actually, cell phones emit SAR radiation which in large amounts has been proven to cause cancer. I would not want to be living next to a cell phone tower which constantly emits this radiation and in large amounts. I would advise your parents to sue whoever is building it and have him move it.

Thanks for the info. While we're not the kind of family that likes lawsuits, they are talking with an attorney that represents the home owner's association in their neighborhood. He claims that we might be able to stop it from going up, but if not we can at least get paid compensation so we can GTFO.

Originally Posted by GarySL

Neighbor built his dream home, told my wife that they would have to bury him before he moved out, raised a family & fought hard against a cellphone tower installation next to his property. He lost the cellphone tower fight (the tower added more sending/receiving units since).

He recently died of brain cancer. The family sold the place (to friends of ours with a young family!).

Son of a bitch... that's terrible.

Originally Posted by timmahh

Will they at least do the one that looks like a fake tree?

I don't think so. My mother got the plans from the city and it's going to be a regular, giant ass silver tower.

Originally Posted by shipill

lucky bastard , you'll get better reception at home

Yeah, but we don't want that if it means not being able to sell the house and the possible health risks! I think that's why it seems like we're the only ones fighting this. Cell service in our 'hood sucks so most of the guys couldn't give a damn since it's in our backyard and not theirs.


Thanks everyone for the suggestions. It means a lot!

I'm about to set this guy on fire just because of how stressed my mother is now.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by GregTheStig

I read that same article earlier and it answered a lot of questions for me, but my mother claims to have found a study conducted in Germany where they determined that if you lived within 1/4 mile of a cell tower you were 3 times more likely to have cancer. I still haven't seen the actual study, but she damn near had a stroke when she read it.



Thanks for the info. While we're not the kind of family that likes lawsuits, they are talking with an attorney that represents the home owner's association in their neighborhood. He claims that we might be able to stop it from going up, but if not we can at least get paid compensation so we can GTFO.

I believe she is referring to this study?

http://www.tetrawatch.net/papers/naila.pdf

I have to admit, there are a few studies that suggest a relationship between adverse effects and cell phone towers. But nothing has been conclusively determined. Certainly, no health or government agency has labeled cell phone towers as a definite carcinogenic source.

Example: this study suggests exactly the opposite

http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c3077.full

Another study from the World Health Organization:

" A report issued in 2006 from the World Health Organization (WHO) found no scientific evidence that RF signals from cell towers cause adverse health effects and made the following points:

•Up to five times more of the RF signals from FM radio and television (than from cell towers) are absorbed by the body with no known adverse effects on health in the more than 50 years that radio and TV broadcast stations have been operating.
•Reported cancer clusters surrounding cell phone towers are "often a collection of different types of cancer with no common characteristics" and are therefore "unlikely to have a common cause." What's more, the report noted that there are now so many cell towers that cancer clusters will occur near some merely by chance. And during the past 15 years, no epidemiological studies have found an increased risk of human or animal cancers related to the transmitters."

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA40040...er-Threat.html

The easy answer is to tell you not to get freaked out. But IMO, if I were you and it was my parents living next to a potential tower, I would probably try to get them to move out or stop the construction. Good luck OP

[GregTheStig]

Originally Posted by pman10

I believe she is referring to this study?

http://www.tetrawatch.net/papers/naila.pdf

...

•Up to five times more of the RF signals from FM radio and television (than from cell towers) are absorbed by the body with no known adverse effects on health in the more than 50 years that radio and TV broadcast stations have been operating.
•Reported cancer clusters surrounding cell phone towers are "often a collection of different types of cancer with no common characteristics" and are therefore "unlikely to have a common cause." What's more, the report noted that there are now so many cell towers that cancer clusters will occur near some merely by chance. And during the past 15 years, no epidemiological studies have found an increased risk of human or animal cancers related to the transmitters."


The easy answer is to tell you not to get freaked out. But IMO, if I were you and it was my parents living next to a potential tower, I would probably try to get them to move out or stop the construction. Good luck OP

That's the one I think. I'll read through it all when I get the chance

Thanks for all the info. The only thing that concerns me is that reported cancer clusters with "no common characteristics" bit. I mean a cluster of cancer is still a cluster of cancer right? I'm sure you can tell I'm not a doctor lol.

Like I said earlier, we are getting an attorney involved so here's to hoping for the best. Thanks a bunch, pman.

[1speedbike]

According to the World Health Organization:

Considering the very low exposure levels and research results collected to date, there is no convincing scientific evidence that the weak RF signals from base stations and wireless networks cause adverse health effects.

In commenting on cell phone towers near homes or schools, the Federal Communications Commission states:

Radiofrequency emissions from antennas used for cellular and PCS [personal communications service] transmissions result in exposure levels on the ground that are typically thousands of times below safety limits. These safety limits were adopted by the FCC based on the recommendations of expert organizations and endorsed by agencies of the Federal Government responsible for health and safety. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that such towers could constitute a potential health hazard to nearby residents or students.

Also.. if you're willing to listen to science, here's my take on it..

The increase in cancer risk comes from a lot of various factors about the radiation itself.

Of all the types of waves which could be damaging your DNA, the radiation from cell towers is at the bottom of the list. If you think of radiation as particles travelling in a sinusoidal pattern (waves), then you can see what I mean. In order to do some serious damage to your DNA, the particles not only need to be travelling fast, but they need to have some serious momentum. In order to have momentum, they need to have sizeable mass.

Alpha radiation is particularly nasty because you have relatively huge alpha particles (which are equivalent to a helium nucleus) battering your cells, ripping through, and taking out chunks of DNA. This is why different types of radiation get assigned RBE values, for which alpha particles are assigned a huge value of 12. RBE stands for relative biological effectiveness, and is a way to gauge how "bad for you" different types of radiation are. However, because of the extraordinarily slow velocity (relative to other waves), this type of radiation does not travel well, and even in air won't get far and won't get deep into your skin. It won't even get through a sheet of aluminum foil.. but damn that foil must be hurtin'

EMF waves (visible light, radio waves, UV, X-rays, gamma rays) on the other hand are made up of photons (particles of light). I'm pretty sure we can't actually calculate a photon's mass (if it has ANY) because it's so tiny, though we know they have momentum. With such a small mass, the momentum of the photon is much smaller than that of an alpha particle, and thus has the smallest RBE value of 1. However, due to their high velocity, they DO travel far and can penetrate the walls of your house.

All isn't lost, however, because typical radio waves have a frequency (and thus energy levels) much lower than those of nasty x-rays and gamma rays. The energy of a photon is directly related to its frequency, and lower energy means lower velocity. Without this energy, they simply don't have the momentum to knock your DNA around.

If you notice:



Radio and cell waves are on the OTHER SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM from UV, x, and gamma rays (the ones we always hear about giving cancer). In fact, visible light is MORE damaging than radio waves based on frequency and energy alone.

Instead of basing your information on population studies which only report on correlations, just think about what CAUSES damage to your DNA (elevating the risk for cancer) and how radio waves fit into the equation.

Radio waves simply don't have the energy required to give you cancer. You can rest easy

[GregTheStig]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Radio waves simply don't have the energy required to give you cancer. You can rest easy

Thanks so much for all that info! I really appreciate the science lesson I just hope my mother's oncologist says the same thing because I think he's the only one she will believe about this.



UPDATE:
It seems that now the rest of the neighborhood is catching on and they're all mega pissed about it and want to join the effort to stop it. The only problem is that it's already been approved by the county so I'm not sure what good it'll do at this point.

[Mahmood07]

We had the same issue at home. One of my family members got sick and he was told it could very well be radiation from the pole. He had to sleep with a net over his bed to keep out radiation. Long story short, my mother forced us to move out..we did and never looked back. Goodluck.

[Throwback28]

FIGHT IT!!!!! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!! you need to appeal to city hall, get your neighbors for support. If you do that i almost guarantee they'll stop it. If it is a residential neighborhood the homeowners association can stop the plan

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by GregTheStig

Thanks so much for all that info! I really appreciate the science lesson I just hope my mother's oncologist says the same thing because I think he's the only one she will believe about this.



UPDATE:
It seems that now the rest of the neighborhood is catching on and they're all mega pissed about it and want to join the effort to stop it. The only problem is that it's already been approved by the county so I'm not sure what good it'll do at this point.

Hopefully the oncologist remembers physics class from pre-med / medical school

Originally Posted by Mahmood07

We had the same issue at home. One of my family members got sick and he was told it could very well be radiation from the pole. He had to sleep with a net over his bed to keep out radiation. Long story short, my mother forced us to move out..we did and never looked back. Goodluck.

Sounds like the net was acting like a Faraday Cage. Such a "cage" is any sort of mesh (or even solid sheet) of conducting material. Any electromagnetic (light) wave will have electric and magnetic fields associated with it. The magnetic fields will generate a small current in the mesh... and that current will actually in turn create a field of its own (by Ampere's law). This field will be in the opposite direction of the original field and "cancel" it out.

However, all this is unnecessary, as I honestly doubt the waves from the cell tower actually caused the sickness. Placebo effect can go a long way.



Though, the principle of this whole situation is just kind of wrong. This cell tower is something which affects the whole neighborhood. There are reasons for residential zoning laws. What may be acceptable in a commercial space, or out in the woods, it not necessarily okay to do around people's houses. I'd still fight it.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by GregTheStig

That's the one I think. I'll read through it all when I get the chance

Thanks for all the info. The only thing that concerns me is that reported cancer clusters with "no common characteristics" bit. I mean a cluster of cancer is still a cluster of cancer right? I'm sure you can tell I'm not a doctor lol.

Like I said earlier, we are getting an attorney involved so here's to hoping for the best. Thanks a bunch, pman.

Contrary to popular thought, cancer is not a single disease; rather, it is a cluster of syndromes and diseases under a single, somewhat-unifying banner.

The reason for this? These different cancer syndromes often have different causes and phases of development. Simple examples: lung cancer is closely linked to exposure to smoking, mesothelioma is closely related to asbestos exposure. Extremely (EXTREMELY) high levels of exposure to cell phones are linked to certain CNS tumors, like oligodendrogliomas and astrocytomas.

The WHO reasons that if unrelated cancers are appearing, there may not be a causal link (or that the causal link is rather weak).

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Also.. if you're willing to listen to science, here's my take on it..

The increase in cancer risk comes from a lot of various factors about the radiation itself.

Of all the types of waves which could be damaging your DNA, the radiation from cell towers is at the bottom of the list. If you think of radiation as particles travelling in a sinusoidal pattern (waves), then you can see what I mean. In order to do some serious damage to your DNA, the particles not only need to be travelling fast, but they need to have some serious momentum. In order to have momentum, they need to have sizeable mass.

Alpha radiation is particularly nasty because you have relatively huge alpha particles (which are equivalent to a helium nucleus) battering your cells, ripping through, and taking out chunks of DNA. This is why different types of radiation get assigned RBE values, for which alpha particles are assigned a huge value of 12. RBE stands for relative biological effectiveness, and is a way to gauge how "bad for you" different types of radiation are. However, because of the extraordinarily slow velocity (relative to other waves), this type of radiation does not travel well, and even in air won't get far and won't get deep into your skin. It won't even get through a sheet of aluminum foil.. but damn that foil must be hurtin'

EMF waves (visible light, radio waves, UV, X-rays, gamma rays) on the other hand are made up of photons (particles of light). I'm pretty sure we can't actually calculate a photon's mass (if it has ANY) because it's so tiny, though we know they have momentum. With such a small mass, the momentum of the photon is much smaller than that of an alpha particle, and thus has the smallest RBE value of 1. However, due to their high velocity, they DO travel far and can penetrate the walls of your house.

All isn't lost, however, because typical radio waves have a frequency (and thus energy levels) much lower than those of nasty x-rays and gamma rays. The energy of a photon is directly related to its frequency, and lower energy means lower velocity. Without this energy, they simply don't have the momentum to knock your DNA around.

If you notice:
:

Very nice way to reason it out . Wave-particle theory, I like that! Something to keep in mind the next time I get asked about cell phone radiation.

Also explains why no solid theory has emerged as to HOW RF might result in neoplasia, unlike X-ray, UV and Gamma ray radiation.

[GregTheStig]

Originally Posted by Throwback28

FIGHT IT!!!!! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!! you need to appeal to city hall, get your neighbors for support. If you do that i almost guarantee they'll stop it. If it is a residential neighborhood the homeowners association can stop the plan

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Though, the principle of this whole situation is just kind of wrong. This cell tower is something which affects the whole neighborhood. There are reasons for residential zoning laws. What may be acceptable in a commercial space, or out in the woods, it not necessarily okay to do around people's houses. I'd still fight it.

We are absolutely going to fight it! The lawyer that is representing our home owner's association is confident we can beat them.

The principle of it all is fucking with us too. That guy is making money at the expense of the nearly 40 families that are in the vicinity of this thing. I mean everyone is going to see it and we're all going to have a hard time selling. I mean neighbors don't do that to each other. But I guess they do when you own lots of property in the South...

[michaelthepsycho]

It doesn't take statistics to know that given the choice, people should never live near these things. Science, while great, is fairly finite and limited in scope.

[Throwback28]

I'm almost positive you'll win. Some towers emit frequencies that will drive you insane. I drive pass them on my way to school, its irritating for the ears.