Dealership wants to replace my engine with 1700 miles on the car. :( (kinda long)

[synclastica_86]

A new car is what you should ask for, but the down side is you'll have to go through the painful break in process all over again.

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

A new car is what you should ask for, but the down side is you'll have to go through the painful break in process all over again.

Just seems like either I am hearing things or I am the most unlucky person.

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by knifegun

The issue is this is my second car with the same sound. Just seems like either I am hearing things or I am the most unlucky person.

Did they ever figure out exactly what was causing the noise on your previous M3? I find it hard to believe you'd get two with the same issue, but I still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation for the noise.

[ihyln]

I find it hard to believe that going over the limit once or twice can ruin the engine to that kind of degree. I hit 6500 once bringing it home off the lot with less than 15 miles on the odo. Now, I'm at 1900 and thank goodness theres nothing wrong.

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by farbarg

Did they ever figure out exactly what was causing the noise on your previous M3? I find it hard to believe you'd get two with the same issue, but I still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation for the noise.

I agree. I also find it hard to believe that overreving it once or twice would damage the main bearing. The tech believed it was the main bearing of the engine that was faulty. I asked what could cause it and he said the tolerances were so tight that it could just be a defect bearing. Maybe it is a batch of engines that were affected. I really don't know at this point. On the other hand, the other car they had at the dealership did not have this noise and it was past the 1200 mile break in.

[knifegun]

So are SnowM3 and I the only people who have this noise after the 1200 mile break in? Or is it that many people have it but you are not listening for it? I am willing to be more people have it. I am starting to think there must be a defect in the engine or it is something else.

[farbarg]

KnifeGun,

My current tally is 5: SnowsM3, me, Bills742, you, and another who's PM'd me.
My current plan is to drive the car normally (including auto-x's), and take it back in 1-2k miles (but this time be with the tech when it's on the lift to see if we can isolate the noise). Car still drives fine, but I swear it has become a bit rougher (slight shaking) at about 1k.

I find it hard to believe that, being as anal as everyone on this board tends to be about noises, that the noise is normal. I'd expect more than just you and I to be complaining about it.

[farbarg]

Here's a summary of the noise excerpted from SnowsM3 posts:

on 5-29-2008 SnowsM3 says:

The noise sounds like
someone is taking a long screwdriver and tapping(clicking) on the side of the engine
block. My noise is most easily replicated by just sitting parked and lightly jabbing the
throttle between 1k & 2k rpm. It's really weird because it doesn't get faster as the rpm's
increase. It's almost like a random tapping when the rpm's climb between 1k & 2k.
Sometimes I might get 1 tap(click) on that small rev and sometimes I might get up to 5
or 6 taps(clicks) on that small rev. The noise is the same whether the car is in gear or
not and whether the clutch is depressed or not. I first heard it when I was driving slowly
thru a parking lot & it only happens when the throttle is lightly pressed. The sound
doesn't happen when I'm coasting thru aI lightly press the throttle. Really weird.

and an excerpt from SnowsM3 post on 5-29-2008:

All that being said it still doesn't seem right that nobody else on this board has this
noise. If you want to replicate the noise it's very important that you only use LIGHT
throttle input. Either pull away slowly in a parking lot or park in your garage and
LIGHTLY tap the throttle up to 1500 rpms to hup....at least 15 to 20 minutes of driving.
-----

These are *exactly* the conditions required to replicate the noise on my car and KnifeGun's.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by farbarg

KnifeGun,

My current tally is 5: SnowsM3, me, Bills742, you, and another who's PM'd me.
My current plan is to drive the car normally (including auto-x's), and take it back in 1-2k miles (but this time be with the tech when it's on the lift to see if we can isolate the noise). Car still drives fine, but I swear it has become a bit rougher (slight shaking) at about 1k.

I find it hard to believe that, being as anal as everyone on this board tends to be about noises, that the noise is normal. I'd expect more than just you and I to be complaining about it.

Have you guys had any contact whatsoever with Snows? They took his engine and disected it, right? I mean someone in Germany knows the truth right now - whether this is a real problem to be concerned with or is just a fluke of some engines but does not effect performance or reliability. Personally I don't think the latter makes sense, but either way someone at BMW knows the deal on this now. Have you guys tried to get any info from Snows, and if not, have you tried to get answers from people at BMW AG?

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Have you guys had any contact whatsoever with Snows? They took his engine and disected it, right? I mean someone in Germany knows the truth right now - whether this is a real problem to be concerned with or is just a fluke of some engines but does not effect performance or reliability. Personally I don't think the latter makes sense, but either way someone at BMW knows the deal on this now. Have you guys tried to get any info from Snows, and if not, have you tried to get answers from people at BMW AG?

This is a great point. I think KG tried to get in touch with Snows but no luck. I asked my SA if it was possible to get any info from BMW about that one case, and he said even the BMW techs who make the rounds of dealerships may not have access to that information until they're ready to issue some official note. It would be great if BMW was listening in and wanted to give us an update

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by farbarg

This is a great point. I think KG tried to get in touch with Snows but no luck. I asked my SA if it was possible to get any info from BMW about that one case, and he said even the BMW techs who make the rounds of dealerships may not have access to that information until they're ready to issue some official note. It would be great if BMW was listening in and wanted to give us an update

Sadly, that is probably not forthcoming.

If BMW gave up a new car and it turns out it was something minor (sucha as expansion of the exhaust, as his SA had tried to claim originally) then they will bury this very deep because it is both an embarassment and a liability. On the other hand, if there's a real issue, it will be a while before anything is revealed publicly. They will want to wait for more samples to roll in before they are willing to say if it is anything more than an isolated case.

Have you guys been able to get the same kind of attention that Snows did yet? If not, then maybe BMW doesn't need any more samples. Maybe they have already been able to replicate the problem in their dyno facilities, and are just trying to determine the magnitude and whether or not a recall or TSB is in order.

Good luck on this. I will be watching closely with interest. This reminds be a bit of the way the E46 rod bearing recall debacle started out. At first there were just a few, and then there were hundreds. Maybe a dedicated website for people to sign up and provide VIN is in order?

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Good luck on this. I will be watching closely with interest. This reminds be a bit of the way the E46 rod bearing recall debacle started out. At first there were just a few, and then there were hundreds. Maybe a dedicated website for people to sign up and provide VIN is in order?

Lets hope it doesn't get to this point.

[knifegun]

I have tried to contact Snow to no avail. But if we have 5 instances, please bring your cars into the dealership. Best is to ask when the BMW of NA is going to be there so he can hear the noise as well. I am going back this Tuesday when the rep will be there. There has to be something going on with either all engines or a batch of them. Issue could be also environmental. I live in Northern CA. Does anybody else with issue live in similar climates? Also, mine is a sedan. I know Snow's was a coupe. But what about everybody else?

Let's start tracking the 5 cars and see if we can get a resolution. There has to be more affected. It is just that if you never drive with your windows down, you won't know you even have the problem. And it only shows up when the car is warmed up. Don't let the techs tell you it is the cats. There is no reason that raising the revs which heat up the exhaust would cause cool down sounding clicks. if you get that story, ask to talk to a shop foreman. They ARE the subject matter experts and the ones that receive the training on the latest and greatest M cars first.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Have you guys had any contact whatsoever with Snows? They took his engine and disected it, right? I mean someone in Germany knows the truth right now - whether this is a real problem to be concerned with or is just a fluke of some engines but does not effect performance or reliability. Personally I don't think the latter makes sense, but either way someone at BMW knows the deal on this now. Have you guys tried to get any info from Snows, and if not, have you tried to get answers from people at BMW AG?

[knifegun]

BTW, do any of the others live in the CA Bay Area? Maybe we can meet up and compare sounds. And then we could go to Steven's Creek BMW.

Others, if you live in AZ, you can go to Scottdale BMW...I believe that is where Snow took his car.

Please report back what you find. Maybe we should start a thread to track all the information about this issue and get to the bottom of it (no pun intended as it seems to be a bearing in the bottom of the engine causing the issue ).

Please also make sure you follow break in to the letter even after 1200 mile service. Bring the revs slowly. If you immediately redline at 1201 miles, the BMW of NA rep could give you trouble.

Originally Posted by knifegun

I have tried to contact Snow to no avail. But if we have 5 instances, please bring your cars into the dealership. Best is to ask when the BMW of NA is going to be there so he can hear the noise as well. I am going back this Tuesday when the rep will be there. There has to be something going on with either all engines or a batch of them. Issue could be also environmental. I live in Northern CA. Does anybody else with issue live in similar climates? Also, mine is a sedan. I know Snow's was a coupe. But what about everybody else?

Let's start tracking the 5 cars and see if we can get a resolution. There has to be more affected. It is just that if you never drive with your windows down, you won't know you even have the problem. And it only shows up when the car is warmed up. Don't let the techs tell you it is the cats. There is no reason that raising the revs which heat up the exhaust would cause cool down sounding clicks. if you get that story, ask to talk to a shop foreman. They ARE the subject matter experts and the ones that receive the training on the latest and greatest M cars first.

[knifegun]

I have a sinking feeling this may turn out to be simliar.

Originally Posted by Dascamel

Lets hope it doesn't get to this point.

[MDCTFTW]

Let me know if/when you go to Stevens Creek. I am pretty close by and may want some noise checked out as well.

[synclastica_86]

Do you get to keep your old engine? Hahaha... I would love an engine for a center piece in my living room.

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

Let me know if/when you go to Stevens Creek. I am pretty close by and may want some noise checked out as well.

I am going in this Tuesday at 8:30 a.m. The BMW of NA rep will also be there so he can look into my rev history and make sure I followed the break in. If you decide to go, make an appointment for the same time. My SA is Angie Challenor. Eric Diamond is also very good there and extremely helpful.

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Do you get to keep your old engine? Hahaha... I would love an engine for a center piece in my living room.

That would be awesome. I got a new car but it also has the same noise. If they force an engine replacement, I'll ask if I can keep the original one as a souvenir

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by knifegun

BTW, do any of the others live in the CA Bay Area? Maybe we can meet up and compare sounds. And then we could go to Steven's Creek BMW.

Others, if you live in AZ, you can go to Scottdale BMW...I believe that is where Snow took his car.

Please report back what you find. Maybe we should start a thread to track all the information about this issue and get to the bottom of it (no pun intended as it seems to be a bearing in the bottom of the engine causing the issue ).

Or, if you live near San Diego, it would be great to meet up and compare sounds down here. Second, KG, what about a wiki? I could host a small one, and that way those who are registered could update their own info. It may be a better medium than a thread. If that sounds OK, I'll try to look into it soon.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by knifegun

That would be awesome. I got a new car but it also has the same noise. If they force an engine replacement, I'll ask if I can keep the original one as a souvenir

Nice idea but I'm sure theyd want to pull it apart and check it out.

[knifegun]

Well, I live in the Northern California near Palo Alto. I could meet anyone that is local tomorrow afternoon so we can compare sounds.