Value of car with newly rebuilt engine?

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by akkando

I agree with your logic but casually looking at at private sales it doesn't seem like a lower mile engine swapped into a higher mile car commands a premium, usually the opposite.

If it was me, I'd rather have a rebuilt engine with 25k miles on it before rebuild in a 85k mile car, than an 85k mile engine in the same car.

You should ask what bearings they used, that will be important to buyers.

BE bearings were used in the rebuild, it’s listed on the receipt/invoice

[deansbimmer]

Any type of significant service or repair such as a salvage rebuild or engine replacement will cause the perception of reduced value on the used market.

With no shortage of poor quality work coming out of shops, (easily outnumbering the good shops), we can understand why this perception is the norm. Independents don't produce the same quality product as the factory did. Personally, I'd rather have an 80k mile original engine, than a rebuilt engine done by a little known shop or end user/diy.

If yours was done by some celebrity status shop like Dinan or VAC then you'll probably be fine. Even if done by a good shop known for their expertise with this platform you'll have a good chance at retaining the value if you ever sell.

However if your receipt is one page and the line simply states "Engine Rebuild....$18,0000", you might not expect to do as well. It's all about documentation.

[MahiC]

Lol probably woulda made more money selling the chassis. I'd keep the car if I was 18k into the engine. I woulda made it a stroker at that point.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by MahiC

Lol probably woulda made more money selling the chassis. I'd keep the car if I was 18k into the engine. I woulda made it a stroker at that point.

I made a chunk back parting out the supercharger and other aftermarket parts, plus a partial refund from the place that sold the core. If I had planned on keeping it I would have thought about going the stroker route but I was planning on selling to recoup the money I laid out for the GT3 down payment.

On a side note I checked into selling the chassis and was offered like $10-11k. Didn’t make sense to sell for that.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Any type of significant service or repair such as a salvage rebuild or engine replacement will cause the perception of reduced value on the used market.

With no shortage of poor quality work coming out of shops, (easily outnumbering the good shops), we can understand why this perception is the norm. Independents don't produce the same quality product as the factory did. Personally, I'd rather have an 80k mile original engine, than a rebuilt engine done by a little known shop or end user/diy.

If yours was done by some celebrity status shop like Dinan or VAC then you'll probably be fine. Even if done by a good shop known for their expertise with this platform you'll have a good chance at retaining the value if you ever sell.

However if your receipt is one page and the line simply states "Engine Rebuild....$18,0000", you might not expect to do as well. It's all about documentation.

I understand what you’re saying but personally I feel the complete opposite. I’d have zero confidence in buying one of these cars with 80k miles on original engine, there’s just way too many issues IMO and I’d be afraid the engine was going to blow at some point (valid concern being that this is already engine #3 for this car in 60k miles).

[smyles]

Well, you're asking for buyers perspective, so here it is. I too would prefer factory assembled 80k miles motor over some unknown hand built project.

But I'm also not a member of the RB cult, so discount for that.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Any type of significant service or repair such as a salvage rebuild or engine replacement will cause the perception of reduced value on the used market.

On a mainstream vehicle I would agree. On an 'enthusiast' vehicle, or any vehicle with well-known engine problems, I would not agree. I actually own two examples of the latter:

'99 Porsche 996: The engine in mine was replaced at 42k miles due to the well-documented IMS failure. People are so scared of this failure that it's easier to sell examples with replacement engines than those without. "What's the status of the IMS?" is the first question any 996 buyer asks, and "it has a Porsche replacement engine" is among the best answers.

'13 BMW X3: The N52 engine in mine was replaced at 64k miles due to the well-known timing chain failure. You would need to be virtually insane to purchase any BMW of this era with the 2.0T engine if it hasn't been replaced. These vehicles are ticking time bombs if the engines haven't been repaired or replaced.

That said, this all applies to the E9x M3 mostly because of the RB issue. The fact that the engine--regardless of originality--has fresh bearings is one of the biggest selling points of the car.

Engine replacements simply do not bother me any more, as long as I can get answers to the following questions:

1) Why was the engine replaced?
2) Who did the work?
3) Did the replacement solve a common engine failure in this model of car?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

On a mainstream vehicle I would agree. On an 'enthusiast' vehicle, or any vehicle with well-known engine problems, I would not agree. I actually own two examples of the latter:

Engine replacements simply do not bother me any more, as long as I can get answers to the following questions:

Yes, I know you've made that argument before in other posts- it may be valid for a specific model here and there, but having been in the industry for many years, I can tell you from experience that your viewpoint, as fine as it may be, is more exception than rule. There are beliefs on both sides of this fence, so it really doesn't matter if there are differing opinions, there will be buyers for cars on both sides.

In the used car market (kbb/Nada/etc) there is no metric for calculating car value with replacement or rebuilt engines. So on paper, there really is no decreased value as there would be with title status, equipment, or mileage deductions, etc., only the perception of less desirability. Since many will not even consider the purchase of a non-original M3, it does indeed affect the perceived value of these cars. On the flipside, some others may find it a perk- it's a case by case basis. From my experience what it all boils down to is that you will probably be able to sell your car for the same price, it may just take longer while you look for the right buyer.

While our cars absolutely have a growing enthusiast following, they are still quite mainstream and subject to the trends of that market.

[smyles]

Knowing that engine replacement is $$$$, as a buyer I'd be, frankly speaking, very suspicious of the fact that the seller parts with the vehicle immediately after such an expense (and hassle). After few years/many miles - yeah, sure, perfectly understandable.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by smyles

Knowing that engine replacement is $$$$, as a buyer I'd be, frankly speaking, very suspicious of the fact that the seller parts with the vehicle immediately after such an expense (and hassle). After few years/many miles - yeah, sure, perfectly understandable.

I had the car sold and the engine blew literally two days before the buyer was coming to pick it up, rod bearings decided to put a nice hole in the block (again). I already bought a GT3 as a replacement months ago. Still might just keep both though, not sure yet. But you're probably right, just figured I'd throw $18k into it to screw someone over...come on man

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

In the used car market (kbb/Nada/etc) there is no metric for calculating car value with replacement or rebuilt engines. So on paper, there really is no decreased value as there would be with title status, equipment, or mileage deductions, etc., only the perception of less desirability.

I agree with all of that, but I also find KBB/NADA to be virtually useless for determining the value of an E9x M3 or anything comparable/better.

Since many will not even consider the purchase of a non-original M3, it does indeed affect the perceived value of these cars. On the flipside, some others may find it a perk- it's a case by case basis. From my experience what it all boils down to is that you will probably be able to sell your car for the same price, it may just take longer while you look for the right buyer.

Sure, that's pretty much what I'm saying--the market determines the value of a vehicle.

While our cars absolutely have a growing enthusiast following, they are still quite mainstream and subject to the trends of that market.

Do you consider recent RB replacement to be a positive when selling an M3? That's arguably a 'major engine repair' to a mainstream buyer, but it's probably worth more to anyone in this forum.

[SoCalRPM]

OP, honestly I think you have to remove your enthusiast mindset from trying to rationalize on certain levels. Sure, many of us here in the forums could appreciate or understand the benefit of a new S65 in a [hopefully] well maintained platform with only roughly 50k miles.

But selling to other enthusiasts is a niche market and there's a much larger buying pool of regular people out there. The majority of buyers with even a casual interest in these cars are going to look at a car with multiple engine issues and walk away immediately.

Hell, when looking for my e92 I passed on another car that was the right spec but had an engine swap after failed RBs. Even as an enthusiast I said no because I wanted something numbers-matching.

You also have to consider that your buyer is thinking resale down the road, too. You may be able to find an enthusiast who understands this situation but that person may want to sell to the general market later and that's a tall order with a vehicle that has two engine red flags.

The only way you can even match a fair market price (let alone add any value) for other comparable cars without an engine swap/rebuilt is if you're super patient and manage to connect to that 1% of willing buyers.

I also suggest that if you're trying to target that small group of buyers willing to pay more for your engine rebuild, you've got to know exactly what was done during said rebuild.

Otherwise, you're going to have to price it competitively and that puts the cost of an engine rebuild completely in the red.

Such is life with an S65.

[Scrippy]

As a buyer I'd only pay 60% of market value as there is no warranty involved. That 50 some thousand mile original motor wouldn't have bothered me at all and in fact would have interested me and paying market value would've been fine IMO. Because engine replacements can get fucked up I would offer the 60% respectfully.