GTR vs M3. Any reasons to not get a GTR?

[ihatepotholes]

Originally Posted by moosety2009

This just in!!!

Camaro Tuner To Take on GT-R With Turbo V6 Camaro Project

LONGVIEW, Texas — East Texas Muscle Cars is developing a turbocharged 2010 V6 Camaro with the ultimate goal of beating the Nissan GT-R around the Nürburgring Nordschliefe.

Rather than go the V8 route, "We wanted to do something a little different," says company spokesman Mike White. "We're seeing a lot of interest in something like this for the V6 Camaros."

The car, currently under development, will initially be a one-off to prove the concept and take the pulse of the market. Built with a forged crank, rods and pistons, the V6 will receive a modified Squires Turbo Systems remote-mount turbocharger kit and produce around 500 horsepower.

Other changes include a Baer big brake kit, lightweight 20-inch iForged wheels and Pedders coil-overs and bushings to address "the stock Camaro's tremendous understeer and cradle walk."

The company estimates the Camaro's final weight to measure about 3,750 pounds. "This will not be a race-prepped car. Anyone can build a racecar to beat a street car," White continues. "We will have a full interior and be running 275/35 Bridgestone RE050 [street] tires. Everyone knows the GT-R wasn't running street tires at the 'Ring," White continues, referring to the GT-R's results in the hands of Nissan engineers.

Once sorted, the company plans to crate up and ship both the completed Camaro and a close acquaintance's personal GT-R to Germany to run hot laps of the Nürburgring. "We want to beat the GT-R's lap time."

The car will debut at the 2009 SEMA Show this year in the Squires Turbo Systems booth.

Inside Line says: A surprisingly ambitious project that promises to deal only in extremes. — Jason Kavanagh, Engineering Editor

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=154486

yea sure... get a new chassis while at it, otherwise it ain't happening

[devo]

Originally Posted by Quacker

You are making this up. From my knowledge, no info has been released for the 2011 911tt. Even what you say is true, by 2011, there will be a much improved version of the GTR. Porsche is playing catch up here.
"you get what you pay for." True to some extent but not all the time. Ever heard of the "law of diminishing returns?" 997tt owners in Australia know that law very very well, considering the fact that the 997tt costs twice as much as a GTR over there

Like I said: 2010 997 TT: 500 HP, Torque up from 460-505 on overboost to 480-516 on overboost, 3.8L DI engine, even more fuel efficient with less emissions and no GG tax, lighter Centerlock wheels, more aggressive PASM and rear biased AWD with a torque vectoring system, dynamic engine mounts, 7-spd PDK with optional paddles, modest weight reduction, etc...

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911turbo/usa.aspx

[footie]

Originally Posted by Quacker

You are making this up. From my knowledge, no info has been released for the 2011 911tt. Even what you say is true, by 2011, there will be a much improved version of the GTR. Porsche is playing catch up here.
"you get what you pay for." True to some extent but not all the time. Ever heard of the "law of diminishing returns?" 997tt owners in Australia know that law very very well, considering the fact that the 997tt costs twice as much as a GTR over there

You're right that Porsche are playing catch up to Nissan's GTR but from what I have read and been told Porsche noew have an answer to the GTR and the new Mk2 997tt is it.

I'm of the opinion that it will match the GTR on most track and definitely beat it hands down on acceleration. Though even if this opinion ends up to be true it doesn't lessen the achievement Nissan made with the GTR, it still is one of the stars in the motoring world and will be for some years to come.

[devo]

Originally Posted by footie

You're right that Porsche are playing catch up to Nissan's GTR but from what I have read and been told Porsche noew have an answer to the GTR and the new Mk2 997tt is it.

I'm of the opinion that it will match the GTR on most track and definitely beat it hands down on acceleration. Though even if this opinion ends up to be true it doesn't lessen the achievement Nissan made with the GTR, it still is one of the stars in the motoring world and will be for some years to come.

In addition the GTR is far less expensive, although more costly to maintain, which certainly does not offset any initial price disparities. Unfortunately, I don't find the GTR as visually pleasing as I do the 997 TT nor does it have the fit and finish -but we'll leave that as just an opinion.

I agree, Footie, the 997 TT should be on par with the GTR at the track (These cars will fight for 1 or 2 seconds there) but should just walk it on any in gear run. The new turbo will have roughly 80 lb/ft of torque advantage weighing about 450 lbs. less.

[moosety2009]

Originally Posted by devo

In addition the GTR is far less expensive, although more costly to maintain, which certainly does not offset any initial price disparities. Unfortunately, I don't find the GTR as visually pleasing as I do the 997 TT nor does it have the fit and finish -but we'll leave that as just an opinion.

I agree, Footie, the 997 TT should be on par with the GTR at the track (These cars will fight for 1 or 2 seconds at the there) but should just walk it on any in gear run. The new turbo will have roughly 80 lb/ft of torque advantage weighing about 450 lbs. less.

The 911tt if the above numbers are true, should really be compared to the SPEC-V version of the GTR, not the regular GTR. The Spec V gets better suspension, breaks, looses 150lbs of weigh and has a new overboost controler, which ups the Torque between 2500-5500 RPMs for about 80seconds. Of course the price tag with the Spec-V doubles that of the regular GTR, but if Porche is going to modify its 997, then it's only fair to compare it with a new GTR spec-v.

[devo]

Originally Posted by moosety2009

The 911tt if the above numbers are true, should really be compared to the SPEC-V version of the GTR, not the regular GTR. The Spec V gets better suspension, breaks, looses 150lbs of weigh and has a new overboost controler, which ups the Torque between 2500-5500 RPMs for about 80seconds. Of course the price tag with the Spec-V doubles that of the regular GTR, but if Porche is going to modify its 997, then it's only fair to compare it with a new GTR spec-v.

Why wouldn't the numbers be true? Do you think there's a conspiracy with Porsche to offer you the aforementioned link?

That's what the GT2 is for.

If not the GT2 then let's use the less expensive soon to come turbo S, which will have as standard equipment, PDK, roughly 530 HP (X50), 516 lb/ft of torque, likely without the use of overboost and Ceramic Brakes which weigh 40 lbs. less, etc...

As far as Porsche modifying their turbo as you say, then apparently it was never "fair" to compare a GTR to a 3 year turbo with a six speed manual. At least now they have an equal playing field as to the transmissions. And, turbo's benefit far more than NA cars from dual clutch transmissions because there is little or no loss of boost between shifts. The transmission and engine software is linked which is why even the archaic tiptronic turbo was faster to 60 than the six speed.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by devo

Why wouldn't the numbers be true? Do you think there's a conspiracy with Porsche to offer you the aforementioned link?

That's what the GT2 is for.

If not the GT2 then let's use the less expensive soon to come turbo S, which will have as standard equipment, PDK, roughly 530 HP (X50), 516 lb/ft of torque, likely without the use of overboost and Ceramic Brakes which weigh 40 lbs. less, etc...

As far as Porsche modifying their turbo as you say, then apparently it was never "fair" to compare a GTR to a 3 year turbo with a six speed manual. At least now they have an equal playing field as to the transmissions. And, turbo's benefit far more than NA cars from dual clutch transmissions because there is little or no loss of boost between shifts. The transmission and engine software is linked which is why even the archaic tiptronic turbo was faster to 60 than the six speed.

Makes a change for someone other than porsche to suggest there's a conspiracy doesn't it

The GTR was compared to the original TT by Nissan and they beat it. Fantastic achievement that everyone should be thrilled with including Porsche fans. The only result of it is to kick P in the ass to produce even better models. Net result a win for everyone.

As for some other comments about the new TT "Definitely kicking it ass because it's lighter/more power" etc. Plenty have said that before and failed. We'll see.

On the fit and finish front I disagree that there is even a slight problem with any Nissan product compared to P cars. The interior fit and finish has always been the main area attacked by reviewers when it comes to P and while I've like all of mine in the past they haven't exactly been the model of design and quality that people would believe.

Visuals are pure personal taste so to say one is ugly is complete nonsense. It may be ugly in your eye but fantastic to someone else.

Bottom line is the motoring world can only benefit from the rare, true giant killers like the GTR so we should applaud them, not knock them all the time.

[devo]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Makes a change for someone other than porsche to suggest there's a conspiracy doesn't it

The GTR was compared to the original TT by Nissan and they beat it. Fantastic achievement that everyone should be thrilled with including Porsche fans. The only result of it is to kick P in the ass to produce even better models. Net result a win for everyone.

As for some other comments about the new TT "Definitely kicking it ass because it's lighter/more power" etc. Plenty have said that before and failed. We'll see.

On the fit and finish front I disagree that there is even a slight problem with any Nissan product compared to P cars. The interior fit and finish has always been the main area attacked by reviewers when it comes to P and while I've like all of mine in the past they haven't exactly been the model of design and quality that people would believe.

Visuals are pure personal taste so to say one is ugly is complete nonsense. It may be ugly in your eye but fantastic to someone else.

Bottom line is the motoring world can only benefit from the rare, true giant killers like the GTR so we should applaud them, not knock them all the time.

I didn't knock the GTR, so what are you talking about? I did state my opinion, so again, what are you talking about.

Your conspiracy response doesn't make any sense.

Regarding the rest of your post, blah, blah, blah...

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by devo

I didn't knock the GTR, so what are you talking about? I did state my opinion, so again, what are you talking about.

Your conspiracy response doesn't make any sense.

Regarding the rest of your post, blah, blah, blah...

Oooh you're kinda touchy aren't you.

I wasn't saying you specifically knocking the car. I was speaking generally. All these posts end up with some P fans (and fanboys) knocking the GTR and accusing them of making up lap times. I believe them as much as I believe any manufacturers lap times.

The post was light with plenty of smilies so the humourless ones would know it was meant that way. Obviously there are a few people on here that take themselves too seriously and can't figure that out.

I didn't knock you, P or anyone else in that post. I joked about the conspiracy thing as it was the first time I had seen anyone spin that one around and found it funny. Sorry if you didn't. It wasn't supposed to make "sense".

As for the rest of the post I was stating the fact that Nissan's achievement can only lead to better products from other manufacturers. If you find that blah then that's your prerogative. At least it's a factual statement. Your post sounded full on fanboy with quoted figures that you state yourself are "roughly" and "likely" and how it wasn't fair to compare to the old model etc etc. Very factual and useful.

Of course I didn't point any of that out because I'm a car fan and not a fanboy and can appreciate good products from any manufacturer.

I suggest you lighten up.

[devo]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Oooh you're kinda touchy aren't you.

I wasn't saying you specifically knocking the car. I was speaking generally. All these posts end up with some P fans (and fanboys) knocking the GTR and accusing them of making up lap times. I believe them as much as I believe any manufacturers lap times.

The post was light with plenty of smilies so the humourless ones would know it was meant that way. Obviously there are a few people on here that take themselves too seriously and can't figure that out.

I didn't knock you, P or anyone else in that post. I joked about the conspiracy thing as it was the first time I had seen anyone spin that one around and found it funny. Sorry if you didn't. It wasn't supposed to make "sense".

As for the rest of the post I was stating the fact that Nissan's achievement can only lead to better products from other manufacturers. If you find that blah then that's your prerogative. At least it's a factual statement. Your post sounded full on fanboy with quoted figures that you state yourself are "roughly" and "likely" and how it wasn't fair to compare to the old model etc etc. Very factual and useful.

Of course I didn't point any of that out because I'm a car fan and not a fanboy and can appreciate good products from any manufacturer.

I suggest you lighten up.

The only figures that I preface with "roughly" and/or "likely" are the speculative ones, the factual ones I don't use such terms.

Your initial response quoted my post and made statements pertaining to it, so of course, I am going to believe that you are referring to my opinions.

I'll be sure to lighten up though! Blah, Blah, Blah,

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by devo

The only figures that I preface with "roughly" and/or "likely" are the speculative ones, the factual ones I don't use such terms.

I'll be sure to lighten up though!

Most excellent my friend

Honestly though if they didn't come out with stuff like the GTR I guarantee you your GT3 on order would be years later coming out.

Don't know how you can order a car and wait that long though. I'd crack and take whatever spec they had in the showroom. I've never been accused of having the patience of a saint

[devo]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Most excellent my friend

Honestly though if they didn't come out with stuff like the GTR I guarantee you your GT3 on order would be years later coming out.

Don't know how you can order a car and wait that long though. I'd crack and take whatever spec they had in the showroom. I've never been accused of having the patience of a saint

I really wanted DE mounts so I can think I am faster, LOL.

I totally agree, without cars like te GTR, Porsche would still be sitting on their lazy asses. I am glad they are not any longer.

[Ca$hOnly]

There's only one reason: Looks. M3 looks great, GTR looks like a rice rocket.

[adc]

Well here is how my selection process went...

I need a car.
I need a fast car.
I need a fast car with stick shift.
I need a fast car with stick shift and 4 seats.
I need a fast car with stick shift, 4 seats and other minor conveniences.
I need a fast car with stick shift, 4 seats and other minor conveniences that I can drive on the Nurburgring and see Spain in.

And, I only have $50k for it.


If the budget stretches to $80k, all sorts of interesting possibilities open up...

[SUB-ZERO]

Like I told the guy at the Nissan dealer

Dealer guy: I see you picked up the M3. Why didn't you get the GTR.

Me: I love the GTR but the GTR is built for one thing...to destroy pretty much anything on the street and track. The M3 can probably destroy about 97% of everything and I can still pick up a client or drive my VP to a meeting.

I would like to see a GTR parked next to my M3 in the future, however, you can't go wrong with the M3. The M3 has tons of performance, sophistication, class and great quality both inside and outside. Also, the maintenance expense on a GTR was a no-go for me.

-SZ

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly

There's only one reason: Looks. M3 looks great, GTR looks like a rice rocket.

Ah yes. Nothing like a bit of racism to make an excellent argument.
Looks are entirely subjective. One persons "good looking" is another's "ugly as sin".

Looks can never come into the discussion as any factual argument.

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by devo

Like I said: 2010 997 TT: 500 HP, Torque up from 460-505 on overboost to 480-516 on overboost, 3.8L DI engine, even more fuel efficient with less emissions and no GG tax, lighter Centerlock wheels, more aggressive PASM and rear biased AWD with a torque vectoring system, dynamic engine mounts, 7-spd PDK with optional paddles, modest weight reduction, etc...

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911turbo/usa.aspx

Excellent specs! Too bad it's double the price. I personally think the car should be around 100-110K. Competition is good. The GTR really turned the world upside down.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by devo

I really wanted DE mounts so I can think I am faster, LOL.

I totally agree, without cars like te GTR, Porsche would still be sitting on their lazy asses. I am glad they are not any longer.

OT- Did you see there are 2010 GT3s on ebay already?
They're going close to sticker.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/All-N...=p4506.c0.m245

[devo]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

OT- Did you see there are 2010 GT3s on ebay already?
They're going close to sticker.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/All-N...=p4506.c0.m245

Yeah, a lot of turmoil in the market right now. I've seen some asking prices $20-$40K above, it's ridiculous. The majority will likely go at or near MSRP.

[Mikewarlover]

GTR is for sure a great car but it does have faults

1. the interior just feels very japanese not solid like on a german car

2. Looks a bit too over the top for many older guys but i am 20 so its fine with me.

3. Only comes in dual clutch transmission and driver feel disconnected from the mechanical actions of the car.

My good buddy recently bought a GTR and he said he still wishes he could have afforded a 911 Turbo. My GTR friend's girlfriend has a Carrera 2s and every time he drives the carrera he will tell me how good it feels and how different it is from a GTR.

I feel the same towards the GTR as my friend, sometimes it does not matter how fast a car can go around a track its how the car makes you feel everytime you go for a drive.

Now go back to OP's topic if i have to pick a car to drive around everyday between the GTR and M3 i will probably pick the m3. M3 is much more comfortable and much less flashy(still very bling). For these of you who never rode in a GTR i can tell you the ride is pretty firm to a point of bit harsh. Which makes it tiring to drive around on a daily bases.

Obviously fact though, is if i am buying a weekand fun car it would definitely be a GTR.

However if i am buying a car for daily and can add C63 to the mix i would buy a C63. Well just as i did last week.

[ScotyH]

This GTR sure attracts attention from all walks of life.

I got "nice car" from a couple of Harley guys yesterday and the same from a member of the Hell's Angels about 20 minutes ago.

The only group that seems to not show any appreciation for it are the 40+ classic/muscle car guys.

[moosety2009]

Originally Posted by ScotyH

This GTR sure attracts attention from all walks of life.

I got "nice car" from a couple of Harley guys yesterday and the same from a member of the Hell's Angels about 20 minutes ago.

The only group that seems to not show any appreciation for it are the 40+ classic/muscle car guys.

Scott, I totally know what you mean. To my surprise I actually have gotten a fair bit of guys over 40+ making those same comments.

Two days ago ventured to downtown charlotte to mee the wife for lunch. They had a Nascar event going on, and to my surprise I pulled up next to one at a light. Driver gave me a thumbs up.. Here I am in a GTR next to a NASCAR, my face looked like this ===>