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07-26-2009, 07:59 PM | #178 | |||||
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I just realized I did have a pass with them closed. Well, I cant be sure that they are fully closed because I personally didn't shut them and the car does still sound a little aftermarket to me in the video. Either way, I know they were mostly closed because most or all of the raspiness is gone. Enjoy! http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/MG...l=en&fs=1&hd=1 Quote:
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Sam and I chatted a little about making these for people and we have some idea of how this might work. I feel that it is a shame to go through all of this R&D and not share it with others. Several people have PM'ed me already throughout this process about making one for them, and now that we know it works and works well, we ARE considering doing this. It would be useful for us to get a count of people that are SERIOUSLY interested, and would leave a deposit so we can order the initial parts and get that stage going. We think it might work something like this for a small batch: 1. Get a list of people sorted and to leave a deposit so we can order the initial parts (J Bends, flanges, sanding disks, stainless welding rod, etc) and get that stage going. 2. People send us either their exhaust, one from a junkyard, or one from the forum that is for sale (seems like there are a few out there, especially if you don't mind a "cut" one). If people order these, they can ship directly to us. You can of course go to BMW and order a new exhaust, but I just looked it up and its $1600. 3. In the meantime, we fab up the connecting pipes, flanges and generally get organized. 4. Once we have them all, we would then work in an assembly line on several a time. This should save some work/effort. 5. As they're done, we can ship them out to people, or if local to NY, we can meet/pickup. Also, I could build the headlight switches for people. I think there is a group buy on the newer '09 version going on now for the fog light mod guys, so old ones can be had, or just get a new one. You can of course just take yours off and send it. BTW, you could always use the switch that comes with the valves, or buy their wireless module and just use the keyfob. The headlight switch mod for the valves is really slick though. I love that part, the button even feels nice and squishy; very tactile. We are guesstimating that we can turn them around in 2-3 weeks. 90% of the work is in Sam's hands so we'd have to work around his busy schedule. So, there you have it. Let me know via PM the interest level. Thanks for the compliments!
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 Last edited by Subw00er; 07-29-2011 at 08:28 PM.. |
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07-26-2009, 09:35 PM | #179 |
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wow.. now that sounded really good..
good job on the project.
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07-26-2009, 10:48 PM | #180 |
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+1 Sounds great! Thanks for shooting so much video. This was a fun thread to follow.
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07-27-2009, 01:03 PM | #181 |
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A few people PM'ed me about cost. It would look something like this:
-Welding work $2200 -2 RRP exhaust valves $480 (If you want the wireless module, its $100. If you want me to mod your headlight switch like mine, add $50) -1 OEM rear muffler (its all just one piece) $150ish seems to be the going rate for a used one, or if you have something else to drive for a couple weeks, just send us yours. We could also obviously mod one thats been cut for a aftermarket exhaust- I'm sure there are a lot of those lying around inexpensively. -Return shipping (Varies but at least $90 I'd guess). Pickup is also ok.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 Last edited by Subw00er; 07-27-2009 at 01:38 PM.. |
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07-27-2009, 06:28 PM | #183 |
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Seems like a very generous price given the work required. I hope you find a couple takers!
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07-27-2009, 07:11 PM | #184 |
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+1 and considering the price of it's only competitor.... I think you have some room to raise your price slightly so you actually make a bit of money and still have a great system out for less than the alternative, and with less wait time.
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07-27-2009, 10:13 PM | #186 |
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Thanks guys. Yes I think that is the least amount we'd want to make them for. Its a solid 5-6 days of Sam's time, then I have to get orders together, coordinate everything, order parts, pack and ship them out, etc. Its a lot of work. I just don't see how you could make these for less, even if you were to tool up somehow. Remember that Sam can make a piece of art in a week and sell it for 5x this amount. The obvious benefit here is that he can make several at a time and have guaranteed buyers at the end. He is also engaged in the project and likes how so many people are interested in it. He was pretty surprised how many people were into the idea when I showed him this thread.
So, as far as I know there are two competitor exhausts, the KKS and Kreissieg. I think the KKS is around $4K and the Kreissieg, 6K?! Last time I checked, both were about a 2 month wait. I'd like to get into a little history here for those that don't know. I never went into this project thinking that it would be a new sales opportunity. Initially, I was just a guy with a new M3 looking to buy an exhaust. I felt that although the intake noise was to die for, I could barely hear the exhaust and after coming out of a rambunctious C5Z06, I really missed the sound. The M3, for me, was missing something - too refined, too "old man." I previously got hooked on the concept of valve-based exhaust after almost buying a 911s with a factory valve exhaust system installed. What a great concept - to be able to have a nice quiet car for phone calls or long trips, but then when you want to have some fun and be a little obnoxious, you can just hit a button and all hell breaks loose! When I started to look at the only two options for the M3, I got serious sticker shock and decided to investigate other solutions. I found JML's thread where he paralleled the cutouts to a "ferrari sound" and that peaked my interest http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=valve+exhaust. But I researched further, and found that all of the cutout-based exhausts drone (all of these were pre-muffler), and this was unacceptable to me, I didn't want any compromises like that. So I started looking at what causes drone, and why stock exhausts don't drone, and read up on the Helmholtz chamber inside - a very interesting concept. I talked to several engineer friends and researched for many weeks online. I drew up some plans (see page 1), and obtained a sacrificial exhaust to play with off of this forum (Thanks Boosted!). Three months later, I have what I think is the best sounding exhausts I've ever heard. I dont mean to be cocky, but you just have to hear this thing in person to understand, and anyone in the NY area is welcome to stop by for a listen. I put a lot of effort into the recordings so I could share, but I just cant capture the right sounds. I may just take some straight WAV or high quality MP3 recordings to bypass the possibility that its my camera thats ruining the sound. Ok, so there you have it. Thanks for following my little project here and all the positive comments. Its wicked fun to come in each day and see what people write.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 Last edited by Subw00er; 08-17-2009 at 11:49 AM.. |
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07-28-2009, 08:42 PM | #187 |
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BMW should have done something like this from the factory. The sounds is pretty intoxicating. EVERYONE who has heard the simple pre-muffler cut-out system raves about it - and I'm talking even AI series racers at NASA (muscle car road racers).
Whomever can productize and sell something like this will win the M3 muffler wars. I'd be surprised if anyone can design an exhaust as quiet as the stock unit with the same flow rate - so I'm interested to see how this goes. Subw00er - it would be interesting to add a completely removed muffler scenario to your sound clips to demonstrate the reduction in drone. |
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07-28-2009, 09:46 PM | #189 |
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JML, I agree, something like this should be on every sports car. What do you mean by removed muffler? Drive around with no muffler!? I wouldnt want to do that. I did take some stationary video of the muffler off. Unfortunately, I had bass reduction on:
http://www.youtube.com/v/VAqfW5k6XcY&hl=en&fs=1 So far, a few people have been interested, but think its too expensive?! I think people are monetarily comparing it to a standard exhaust but what you have to realize is that ya, this might cost a little less than twice that of the cheapest exhaust out there (Remus), but you get twice the muffler, and with no drone or other compromises. This is definitely a niche exhaust though, not everyone is as fascinated by the valves as me. I just loved the concept as soon as I heard it in the 911s. BTW, after driving around with the exhaust for a week now, I can verify that there is no drone or other issues. Previously I mentioned that I thought there might be the slightest bit at 3K RPMs, but its not drone, there is just a very slight increase in volume, and by very slight, I mean VERY slight; maybe 5%. I think most wouldn't even notice what I'm referring to. Oh, and my new favorite thing to do.. drive next to buildings, guardrails or pace next to cars. The reflection off of the sides of surfaces is... OMG. I think this is a somewhat unique feature of having the exit pipes to the side, and perhaps this is what causes that intoxicating sound I'm trying to capture. My hypothesis is that normally, with a rear exiting exhaust, even if it had that sound, you wouldn't hear it because of the sound wave projection going only rearward and the car would physically block all instances of the noise. But since mine is tilted slightly sideways and down, I think this is what makes the exhaust sound so unique in the car. Just thought I'd throw that out there, someone may find it interesting.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 Last edited by Subw00er; 07-29-2011 at 08:30 PM.. |
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08-15-2009, 05:20 PM | #191 |
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I was flying down the auto bahn today & swear I saw valve on guy's exhaust only in the tailpipe - didn't think much of it until I read this thread -
Obviously for me to see them, the valves were behind the muffler, not like cut outs between the headers & muffler - |
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08-15-2009, 06:14 PM | #192 |
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There are two brands of exhaust that have valves, and they both are at the rear, the KKS and Kresissig (probably spelled that wrong). It was likely one of those.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 |
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08-15-2009, 09:48 PM | #193 |
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Great work!!
I haven't considered an exhaust because none of them truly offer the exotic sound I was always looking for. I've tried to convince myself on some but never could. The stock exhaust has a sound I LOVE but I always wanted a little more. Let me tell you, this is it! You have succeed with exactly that intention with precisely the high pitch note I love. Incredible! Dam this sounds gooooood! Hands down the best, no doubt about it. |
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08-16-2009, 09:27 AM | #194 |
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If you want to come hear it, let me know. I see you are semi-local.
I'd like others to hear it in person so they can see, and I can get feedback. The videos, although I spent a lot of time trying to get it right, do not do it justice.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 |
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08-18-2009, 08:52 AM | #196 |
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Maybe there could be flat CF sheets in behind them to block the view? You can buy these at McMaster-Carr. BTw, they really arent that noticeable in person.. The sort of disappear under the car because they match the exhaust color, but I think most enthusiasts would notice them... but then again, what a great conversation piece.
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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740 |
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08-29-2009, 07:45 AM | #197 |
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I have been watching this thread from the beginning and I am still impressed. I was wondering about a few exhaust options for myself. Do think the sound of your exhaust would be acceptable full time in the open position? The reason I ask is I wonder what it would be like if as an alternate the pipes in the absorption chambers were either wrapped with exhaust wrap or replaced with non-perforated piping. Do you think this would yield the same sound you have achieved now, with out the ability to turn it on and off of course.
Basically I want sound and no drone. I wouldn't mind having sound full time, as long as it is not irritating (which usually comes from drone). Thanks. BTW, once is a blue moon I go upstate to visit friends, maybe I should pay you a visit! Last edited by Periokid; 08-29-2009 at 10:50 AM.. Reason: typo |
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08-29-2009, 09:45 AM | #198 |
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Yunno, thats not a bad way to make the stock exhaust not only louder, but quieter. You could open the center section, cover the holes, and remove the packing material. I bet it would be much louder, although I doubt it would be as loud as mine - it still has to go through a couple bends and the tips. Give it a try!
You're definitely welcome to stop by for a listen. PM me for my #.
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