ESS 625+ Heat Exchanger Upgrade $150

[pbonsalb]

I actually think the Evolve is the best design, but am not as confident about its tuning. The Evolve intercooler setup reminds me of the beautiful job Dinan did on its E46 M3 S3R intercooled supercharger kit.

Were I buying new right now, I would buy an ESS 625 since it is well proven and is the best value for the power at $7300. The comparable Level 2 AA kit is 50% more. Also the AA air intake is located in the hot engine bay above the headers. It is not the best location. However, I have not studied testing on the effect on IAT. I think AA claims it is minimal but I would want some verification.

Were I spending more, I would have to do some studying. I would have said ESS VF650 for $10k, but ESS has replaced it with the G1+ and there is next to no data on the G1+ so far since it is new. ESS recommends water/meth, which probably means it is heating the air more, but I think ESS has denied that. I would need to know more.

VFE has been around for years but I have generally not heard good things about its tuning. Its manifold is also pretty heavy. At $9,000, though, it’s priced the same as the current comparable G1+ from ESS and is worth a look. There is a member who redesigned the intercooler core, but I have not read anything from him lately—at one point he was planning to make a lighter plenum.

The Evolve is priced about the same as AA’s Level 3 kit — too much for me to consider. Gintani is up there as well.

I’d probably go ESS and run water/meth injection. I have been running water/meth for over 20 years on various cars, currently including my 08 N/A M3 and my 99 turbo M3. I would also look into the AC based chiller system that Amraz has linked in another post. I have vaguely followed such systems for a number of years but never tried one. The larger reservoirs and larger/more efficient heat exchangers are also good upgrades. And for track use, the 7 or 8 rib pulley sets in place of the stock 6 rib drive might make sense.

The Harrop positive displacement kit would make for a great daily driver, waking up the car in the low to midrange where a centrifugal does little to nothing. But they don’t make the kind of peak power I would like if I was spending $10k, and cannot be easily upgraded. The only upgrade path so far is through Mike at BPM and is on a case-by-case basis. His stage 2 testing at a runway event last year seemed pretty promising, and I think peak power was probably on par with an ESS VT625. One of those stage 2 systems would tempt me, but is probably priced beyond $12k. I also don’t know how those Harrop kits do on the track in terms of heat management or what upgrades might work. There is probably some info you could find since enough kits have been sold for someone to have tracked one.

I will be waiting until a used or partial system pops up cheap. I could refurbish it, complete it, install it, and upgrade it myself. I might even consider attempting an air to air intercooler as a welding project.

[LastMCar]

Great summation of kits! I would add that the earlier ess kits with the Vortech v3si units are rebuildable and upgradeable, not sure about the new g charger. (I have rebuilt mine and swapped in a low range impeller)

You can probably find a used 625 kit, rebuild the blower and save a couple grand.
I am also very interested in a chiller killer kit, I have contacted Kincaid about working on a kit together, if so, I will be sure to post on it.

[Lambro]

I have no idea why everyone says there is no where to mount the killer chiller. There is a gigantic space behind the crash bar that is more than enough room. I'm installing this now. It's easy.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by iTsEpic

I have no idea why everyone says there is no where to mount the killer chiller. There is a gigantic space behind the crash bar that is more than enough room. I'm installing this now. It's easy.

Please take some pictures and mind sharing install notes?

[Lambro]

This is where I'm going to mount it. I may flip it upside down, im not sure just yet. I was missing the suction hose Tee, so I am waiting for them to send that so I can finish the install. You will have to cut away a bit of the plastic support in the middle as you see in the picture.

View post on imgur.com

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by iTsEpic

[IMG]

View post on imgur.com

[/IMG]

This is where I'm going to mount it. I may flip it upside down, im not sure just yet. I was missing the suction hose Tee, so I am waiting for them to send that so I can finish the install. You will have to cut away a bit of the plastic support in the middle as you see in the picture.

View post on imgur.com

Subscribed! Haha would like to consider this for my Harrop. Although unclear if the AC component is a challenge on the track vs drag strip.

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by iTsEpic

This is where I'm going to mount it. I may flip it upside down, im not sure just yet. I was missing the suction hose Tee, so I am waiting for them to send that so I can finish the install. You will have to cut away a bit of the plastic support in the middle as you see in the picture.

View post on imgur.com

So much room for activities back there it makes me wish bmw shortened the car by 6 inches

[Lambro]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Subscribed! Haha would like to consider this for my Harrop. Although unclear if the AC component is a challenge on the track vs drag strip.

They make a drag valve which diverts 100% of the AC charge to the KC which is suppose to help with the IATs tremendously. I am not using this however. I do have the heat exchanger bypass valve though.

[dozaiya]

hope to see more of this killer chiller install!!

[Deebo]

Same, please keep us updated with the results!!!

[dozaiya]

Originally Posted by iTsEpic

They make a drag valve which diverts 100% of the AC charge to the KC which is suppose to help with the IATs tremendously. I am not using this however. I do have the heat exchanger bypass valve though.

some updates pretty please?

[Lambro]

I still havent got the suction tee yet, apparently they were on backorder but I should be getting it soon.

[Ninetoez]

Originally Posted by iTsEpic

I still havent got the suction tee yet, apparently they were on backorder but I should be getting it soon.

I have installed the fi interchiller on my ess kit. It works but builds up a lot of condensation inside manifold.

[environment2012]

Originally Posted by Ninetoez

I have installed the fi interchiller on my ess kit. It works but builds up a lot of condensation inside manifold.

Are there more photos and information to share?

[Compman]

Does anyone know if there is a comparable heat exchanger upgrade available?

The one mentioned in this thread is not available anymore.

http://www.speedcooling.com/liquid-i...exchanger.html

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Thats why I hate water to air intercoolers, Has anyone just scrapped that shit and ran a large fmic?
or even maybe ran a large FMIC that then led to the water to air intercooler that the kits already have?

I say this because I am totally fine with hacking up the front end and cutting what needs to be cut out since I plan on running a bash type /tube front end anyways

Why change to a system that is less affective?


Water to air is better at transferring heat

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Why change to a system that is less affective?


Water to air is better at transferring heat

Do u have one of these kits? There is only 1 gallon of water and it circulates through the hot engine bay and heats up and doesnt cool the air but rather heats it up. It's a stupid design made for the E55 Mercs 20 years ago and is a POS. The little intercooler blocks the oil cooler and it barely works even with good airflow. In cool temps it works a lot better but in warm temps the little intercooler gets hot and can't cool the water at all.

I did extensive dyno testing for years and anytime the water gets over 115F the tune starts pulling power. On a hot day you are down over 100hp.

A properly designed air to water system can be effective but the air to water kits are not properly designed.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Do u have one of these kits? There is only 1 gallon of water and it circulates through the hot engine bay and heats up and doesnt cool the air but rather heats it up. It's a stupid design made for the E55 Mercs 20 years ago and is a POS. The little intercooler blocks the oil cooler and it barely works even with good airflow. In cool temps it works a lot better but in warm temps the little intercooler gets hot and can't cool the water at all.

I did extensive dyno testing for years and anytime the water gets over 115F the tune starts pulling power. On a hot day you are down over 100hp.

A properly designed air to water system can be effective but the air to water kits are not properly designed.

The Mercedes ran with water that was shared with the radiator exactly like Range Rover and Jaguar. This is a poor idea.

A separate circuit of water is the answer like these kits offer but with added volume

I am in process of a larger water tank and interchiller in my Harrop m3

I have seen you have done a larger water tank from your thread some time back.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

The Mercedes ran with water that was shared with the radiator exactly like Range Rover and Jaguar. This is a poor idea.

A separate circuit of water is the answer like these kits offer but with added volume

I am in process of a larger water tank and interchiller in my Harrop m3

I have seen you have done a larger water tank from your thread some time back.

Sounds like you have a very good plan. A larger capacity water tank AND interchiller would be amazing. I tried the killer chiller but had to send it back as we tried to find an acceptable place to mount that wouldn't negatively impact other systems but unfortunately could not. I had ESS so perhaps your Harrop can allow for a mounting option such as at/near the factory airbox. Hope it works out. I want to see this happen at least once successfully on this platform.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Do u have one of these kits? There is only 1 gallon of water and it circulates through the hot engine bay and heats up and doesnt cool the air but rather heats it up. It's a stupid design made for the E55 Mercs 20 years ago and is a POS. The little intercooler blocks the oil cooler and it barely works even with good airflow. In cool temps it works a lot better but in warm temps the little intercooler gets hot and can't cool the water at all.

I did extensive dyno testing for years and anytime the water gets over 115F the tune starts pulling power. On a hot day you are down over 100hp.

A properly designed air to water system can be effective but the air to water kits are not properly designed.

I find with my G1 that as long and I am moving at speed, I can keep the IAT under 115F (45C). This is in hotter days here (25C+) BUT as soon as I slow down, the heat soak can be very real. Also, once you get hot, it takes some time to cool back down.

I would much rather a big A2A HE, but the cost of the AA kit, plus how tight that kit is, sent me to ESS. Also, I do not track my car - I just like the extra bit that the SC gives you.

On that note: I am really surprised with the grip from my 275/30/19s. Even charged, I don't have too much of an issue with traction unless I upset the chassis or really hammer the shifts (1st will spin but, well, it would do so NA).

Cheers,

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

I find with my G1 that as long and I am moving at speed, I can keep the IAT under 115F (45C). This is in hotter days here (25C+) BUT as soon as I slow down, the heat soak can be very real. Also, once you get hot, it takes some time to cool back down.

I would much rather a big A2A HE, but the cost of the AA kit, plus how tight that kit is, sent me to ESS. Also, I do not track my car - I just like the extra bit that the SC gives you.

On that note: I am really surprised with the grip from my 275/30/19s. Even charged, I don't have too much of an issue with traction unless I upset the chassis or really hammer the shifts (1st will spin but, well, it would do so NA).

Cheers,

Yeah straight-line dig traction is tough with the SC for sure. I have been able to figure it out NA stock power. Zero spin with the following setup and procedure: 275 35 19 PS4S aired to 27psi, Euro MDM, Power button ON, DCT on S5 automatic mode, stab throttle to bottom but DO NOT hit the stoic "button" and the car will do close to a 4.0 second 0-60mph on the dragy GPS everytime without any wheel spin assuming tarmac is over 50-ish deg F. Below that and the PS4S will spin a bit. Interestingly I switched my wheels up for the summer with Cup2's of tbe same size also on tbe factory ZCP wheels and they spin a little bit even with warmer tarmac temps because they need more heat in them before they start working. So tire compound and tarmac temp have a lot to do with it. But again this is only at stock power levels.

[1SloeEm3]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

I find with my G1 that as long and I am moving at speed, I can keep the IAT under 115F (45C). This is in hotter days here (25C+) BUT as soon as I slow down, the heat soak can be very real. Also, once you get hot, it takes some time to cool back down.

I would much rather a big A2A HE, but the cost of the AA kit, plus how tight that kit is, sent me to ESS. Also, I do not track my car - I just like the extra bit that the SC gives you.

On that note: I am really surprised with the grip from my 275/30/19s. Even charged, I don't have too much of an issue with traction unless I upset the chassis or really hammer the shifts (1st will spin but, well, it would do so NA).

Cheers,

Danm that sucks. I put the ess supplied heat exchanger behind the kidney grills and added a second larger heat exchanger in front of the oil cooler. I’m seeing on average 10F above ambient no matter the ambient temperature cruising.I have a 5 gal tank as well. Stop and go traffic it wants to creep up but starts coming back down as soon as I start going again. Currently testing out a heat Sheild I made to sit below the plenum and slow the heat soak when I leave it parked.