BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-21-2020, 02:47 PM   #1
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Just signed up for my first HPDE event!

Long time driving enthusiast here, and finally signed up for a real track day. I'll be running Thunderhill East with Ongrid. i'm very excited!

I bought my M3 in Feb of this year for this exact reason.. Car is all stock besides Enkei NT03s 18x10 square with Conti ECS, and a Meisterschaft catback.

Brakes are fairly new. I've been told conflicting things about going with pads or not. I don't mind having to run a dedicated track set. Car is daily driven for now. Recommendations are welcome! i'm doing SS lines and Motul RBF600 next week.

Cheers!
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 4
      05-21-2020, 02:53 PM   #2
WhiteM3EMC
Private First Class
WhiteM3EMC's Avatar
109
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: 2011 White M3 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Most here will tell you to keep everything besides brake fluid stock for your very first time. While there are MANY more qualified opinions than mine, and I'm sure they'll weigh in, here's mine: You won't be asking a whole lot of the brakes as the speeds won't be crazy for your first ever session. You definitely don't NEED track pads, but they won't hurt. Keep it cheap and just go enjoy your first track day! You'll learn alot, and will naturally start to identify the things that you may want to change in order for you to achieve your goals the next time out.

I will say, modding the car is an extremely slippery slope, that involves lots of money along the way. I'd certainly recommend taking it out stock (with the mods you've already planned) and enjoying yourself.
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2020, 02:55 PM   #3
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
6481
Rep
7,768
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

For the first time you're likely fine with your oem pads. I would buy another set of pads just in case and take them to the track.

The less you mod the more you learn. After a few days I'd move to RE71 tires, track pads like pfc08/12/11 and camber plates
Appreciate 2
dparm3021.50

      05-21-2020, 03:07 PM   #4
MaximusB
Major
1060
Rep
1,094
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

I did my very first track day early last year (then subsequent several more). Stock brakes are totally fine for first timer. You won't be going very fast the first time. In fact I wouldn't even bother doing videos or lap timing on your first track day, per my Instructor's advice. There are just lots to learn and to take in for the first time, so less distraction the better. Just go have fun.

As for brakes, stock setup is fine. I did my first track day with everything stock. I soon upgraded to BBK though. But that was because my stock rotors and pads weren't in the greatest shape to begin with. After pricing out oem replacement it wasn't that much more to get BBK. Having said that, I would suggest you do your first track day with what you have. Decide whether you want to upgrade when things are starting to wear out/need replacement.
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2020, 03:19 PM   #5
tsk94
Captain
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
706
Rep
869
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

All the above is good advice. If you're doing SS lines and fluid already, that will be more then enough for your first/first few times out.

Go in with an open mind, ready to learn and have fun!
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2020, 05:02 PM   #6
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC View Post
Most here will tell you to keep everything besides brake fluid stock for your very first time. While there are MANY more qualified opinions than mine, and I'm sure they'll weigh in, here's mine: You won't be asking a whole lot of the brakes as the speeds won't be crazy for your first ever session. You definitely don't NEED track pads, but they won't hurt. Keep it cheap and just go enjoy your first track day! You'll learn alot, and will naturally start to identify the things that you may want to change in order for you to achieve your goals the next time out.

I will say, modding the car is an extremely slippery slope, that involves lots of money along the way. I'd certainly recommend taking it out stock (with the mods you've already planned) and enjoying yourself.
Thank you! Yeah I definitely agree with that statement- it's easy to spend money on worthless mods, as it adds up fast. The wheels are tires were a no-brainer. But I want to tread lightly on my next steps with the car. Need to figure out a goal.. as of now, I would like to keep it streetable but very track friendly with minimal changes needed on those weekends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
For the first time you're likely fine with your oem pads. I would buy another set of pads just in case and take them to the track.

The less you mod the more you learn. After a few days I'd move to RE71 tires, track pads like pfc08/12/11 and camber plates
Thanks! I was thinking about making my NT03s dedicated track set and going with a stickier tire anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusB View Post
I did my very first track day early last year (then subsequent several more). Stock brakes are totally fine for first timer. You won't be going very fast the first time. In fact I wouldn't even bother doing videos or lap timing on your first track day, per my Instructor's advice. There are just lots to learn and to take in for the first time, so less distraction the better. Just go have fun.

As for brakes, stock setup is fine. I did my first track day with everything stock. I soon upgraded to BBK though. But that was because my stock rotors and pads weren't in the greatest shape to begin with. After pricing out oem replacement it wasn't that much more to get BBK. Having said that, I would suggest you do your first track day with what you have. Decide whether you want to upgrade when things are starting to wear out/need replacement.
I plan to bring my gopro just for fun! Just for the 'gram maybe

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
All the above is good advice. If you're doing SS lines and fluid already, that will be more then enough for your first/first few times out.

Go in with an open mind, ready to learn and have fun!
Sounds good! thx!
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2020, 05:39 PM   #7
MaximusB
Major
1060
Rep
1,094
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
I plan to bring my gopro just for fun! Just for the 'gram maybe
Video footage is also a great learning tool. I now use track addict and race render to overlay data onto the video. You can retrace your steps to see where you made mistakes and etc. However, being it your first time, I would suggest to at least leave out the gopro for your first few sessions. If anything, setup the gopro in the afternoon sessions after you get familiar with the track first.

Have fun, the car is a blast to track!
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2020, 07:38 PM   #8
WhiteM3EMC
Private First Class
WhiteM3EMC's Avatar
109
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: 2011 White M3 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusB View Post
Video footage is also a great learning tool. I now use track addict and race render to overlay data onto the video. You can retrace your steps to see where you made mistakes and etc. However, being it your first time, I would suggest to at least leave out the gopro for your first few sessions. If anything, setup the gopro in the afternoon sessions after you get familiar with the track first.

Have fun, the car is a blast to track!
Definitely a great learning tool, if you're looking at it critically and not just to pat yourself on the back.

Side note to the OP, ask your instructor if he's cool with you filming. Some might get the wrong message if they see a camera setup; they may think you're trying to prove to your buddies how fast you are and think you're gonna be reckless.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2020, 08:51 AM   #9
m13s
Enlisted Member
26
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Boston, MA North Shore

iTrader: (0)

Forget the camera and data first time out. Waste of time, concentrate on the fundamentals and learn to master them. Worrying about data, video and other analytical tools when you have a zero experience on track fills your head with needless items. Use your instructor to your advantage, ask questions. Vision, hands and feet, smooth on the wheel and building speed at a comfortable pace should be your goals.

Good luck.
Appreciate 1
      05-31-2020, 12:37 AM   #10
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
1585
Rep
2,067
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [0.00]
2021 Tesla Model Y  [0.00]
2003 VW Eurovan  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m13s View Post
Forget the camera and data first time out. Waste of time, concentrate on the fundamentals and learn to master them. Worrying about data, video and other analytical tools when you have a zero experience on track fills your head with needless items. Use your instructor to your advantage, ask questions. Vision, hands and feet, smooth on the wheel and building speed at a comfortable pace should be your goals.

Good luck.
+1 forget the cam. In a few more events you'll just regret having filmed yourself crawling around the track anyways. Just enjoy the amazing first time experience because it only happens once. Focus on being smooth and feeling what the car is doing underneath you.

Also, congrats. Welcome to the best money pit.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2020, 12:56 AM   #11
roastbeef
Lieutenant General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
8046
Rep
11,142
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

i'd do fluid and pads and give it a go. tracking on oem suspension will force you to be smoother if you want to be quick. my build has been slow and sort of backwards, i'm on oem suspension and seats, and those are the two things people tend to swap out immediately. while my reason has been financial limitations, my learning and understanding of the car still grows.
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2020, 01:41 AM   #12
_paolo
Member
_paolo's Avatar
United_States
104
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Have fun! Thunderhill East is a fast track.
__________________
iG: MLO.Paolo
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2020, 02:26 AM   #13
kyippee
Major
kyippee's Avatar
United_States
825
Rep
1,438
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Soo... how was it?
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo1585.00

      06-23-2020, 02:00 PM   #14
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyippee View Post
Soo... how was it?
Fun! Except for a corvette ran off track and caused a fire. Lost two whole sessions because of this. The last two of the day I was getting fairly comfortable with the car.

Now because I'm hooked, I've been non-stop thinking of what to do next. I slid around that seat like a mofo, and looking at some schroth harnesses. Brakes and tires help up pretty good, but thinking of going with some PFC11s before my next run on 7/11(west)

Car has 112k miles, and daily driven ATM. What kind of oil change schedule should I be on with say, a track day every other month or so?

Also, should I just go straight to coilovers? The factory suspension(EDC) is original. I'd love to be able to customize the alignment a bit more. Any other next step mods I should go for?
Appreciate 1
kyippee825.00

      06-23-2020, 02:09 PM   #15
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
+1 forget the cam. In a few more events you'll just regret having filmed yourself crawling around the track anyways. Just enjoy the amazing first time experience because it only happens once. Focus on being smooth and feeling what the car is doing underneath you.

Also, congrats. Welcome to the best money pit.
As chance would have it by gopro was dead when I arrived, ha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i'd do fluid and pads and give it a go. tracking on oem suspension will force you to be smoother if you want to be quick. my build has been slow and sort of backwards, i'm on oem suspension and seats, and those are the two things people tend to swap out immediately. while my reason has been financial limitations, my learning and understanding of the car still grows.
What has been your mod path mike? I've been spending all my free time planning a build.. I'm a bit OCD which doesn't help. I'm not rich so I'm trying to figure out what's best given reasonable cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by _paolo View Post
Have fun! Thunderhill East is a fast track.
It was a blast! loved turn 7-8. Carried some good speed though there!
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 02:20 PM   #16
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3022
Rep
8,087
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
Fun! Except for a corvette ran off track and caused a fire. Lost two whole sessions because of this. The last two of the day I was getting fairly comfortable with the car.

Now because I'm hooked, I've been non-stop thinking of what to do next. I slid around that seat like a mofo, and looking at some schroth harnesses. Brakes and tires help up pretty good, but thinking of going with some PFC11s before my next run on 7/11(west)

Car has 112k miles, and daily driven ATM. What kind of oil change schedule should I be on with say, a track day every other month or so?

Also, should I just go straight to coilovers? The factory suspension(EDC) is original. I'd love to be able to customize the alignment a bit more. Any other next step mods I should go for?





I'd do an oil change every 7,500ish. If your daily drive is mostly highway, you can probably push it longer. The car has a huge sump and 10w60 is very stout.

Resist the urge to throw money at mods right away. Just get yourself reliable brake pads/fluid and harnesses, and put your money into driving as much as possible. Once you are being held back by the factory suspension, THEN you can upgrade it.

Consider a private coach if you really want to focus on building good habits and learning how to extract the most from your car. I'm sure local guys can recommend credible coaches.

Pic related.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 02:53 PM   #17
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I'd do an oil change every 7,500ish. If your daily drive is mostly highway, you can probably push it longer. The car has a huge sump and 10w60 is very stout.

Resist the urge to throw money at mods right away. Just get yourself reliable brake pads/fluid and harnesses, and put your money into driving as much as possible. Once you are being held back by the factory suspension, THEN you can upgrade it.

Consider a private coach if you really want to focus on building good habits and learning how to extract the most from your car. I'm sure local guys can recommend credible coaches.

Pic related.
So, even given semi-frequent HPDE 7500 is still safe?

Yes I know.... I'm an overthinker. So once I get it in my head, it's hard to get it out. Even with the mileage, you think the stock suspension is still worth running into the ground?

My boss happens to be an instructor and currently competing in a race series. So one of these days he will coach me

Oh and, funny guy over here
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 03:33 PM   #18
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3022
Rep
8,087
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
So, even given semi-frequent HPDE 7500 is still safe?

Yes I know.... I'm an overthinker. So once I get it in my head, it's hard to get it out. Even with the mileage, you think the stock suspension is still worth running into the ground?

My boss happens to be an instructor and currently competing in a race series. So one of these days he will coach me

Oh and, funny guy over here



You can do 5,000 if it helps you sleep better at night...it's your car and your money. Maybe do 5,000 on the next one and send a sample to Blackstone Labs and see if you can push it to 7,500. Everyone's motor and driving habits are different. Even if you're getting oil for $8/qt, why pour out $80 worth of oil that's still serviceable?

I'm not saying run the suspension into the ground, I'm saying focus on the fundamentals and learning how to push the car to its limits. You'll get much more utility from hiring a coach for two weekends and doing four days of HPDE than you will from upgrading the suspension. Don't be that guy with a crazy track car who is getting passed by Spec Miatas.

Just as an example, my coach got 2+ seconds off my time in a single weekend on a 1.7 mile course just by making small adjustments to my technique -- and I was not an HPDE noob. On that track, 2 seconds is what an $1800 set of Hoosiers would've gotten me with my same medicore trailbraking technique. The next time I went to that track, I got another 2 seconds off by continuing to refine what we worked on. So yeah, 4 seconds in total, and now I can apply that to any other track I drive on any other car.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP

Last edited by dparm; 06-23-2020 at 03:39 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 03:41 PM   #19
kyippee
Major
kyippee's Avatar
United_States
825
Rep
1,438
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

For oil change, I've been keeping to no more than 3-4 track days or no more than 7,500 miles, whichever comes sooner. Might be a simple way to sort it out!
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 03:45 PM   #20
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3022
Rep
8,087
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyippee View Post
For oil change, I've been keeping to no more than 3-4 track days or no more than 7,500 miles, whichever comes sooner. Might be a simple way to sort it out!

I'll bet you a beer that you're pouring perfectly useable oil out if you change every 3-4 track days.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 03:49 PM   #21
spooni
Private First Class
spooni's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: '10 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Sacramento CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
You can do 5,000 if it helps you sleep better at night...it's your car and your money. Maybe do 5,000 on the next one and send a sample to Blackstone Labs and see if you can push it to 7,500. Everyone's motor and driving habits are different. Even if you're getting oil for $8/qt, why pour out $80 worth of oil that's still serviceable?

I'm not saying run the suspension into the ground, I'm saying focus on the fundamentals and learning how to push the car to its limits. You'll get much more utility from hiring a coach for two weekends and doing four days of HPDE than you will from upgrading the suspension. Don't be that guy with a crazy track car who is getting passed by Spec Miatas.

Just as an example, my coach got 2+ seconds off my time in a single weekend on a 1.7 mile course just by making small adjustments to my technique -- and I was not an HPDE noob. On that track, 2 seconds is what an $1800 set of Hoosiers would've gotten me with my same medicore trailbraking technique. The next time I went to that track, I got another 2 seconds off by continuing to refine what we worked on. So yeah, 4 seconds in total, and now I can apply that to any other track I drive on any other car.
Good plan - I actually have a blackstone test that's unused.

Yeah that is a good plan. I just figured the original suspension is pretty tired anyhow - and it would nice to get some better alignment specs. That is great to hear! My next day is 7/11 and hopefully my boss is coming out so he can give me pointers! better yet, it'll be free!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyippee View Post
For oil change, I've been keeping to no more than 3-4 track days or no more than 7,500 miles, whichever comes sooner. Might be a simple way to sort it out!
Hmm. Got ya! These damn things don't exactly have the cheapest oil or smallest capacity
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2020, 03:57 PM   #22
ThunderMoose
Lieutenant Colonel
726
Rep
1,856
Posts

Drives: PY E46 M3 and SG E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spooni View Post
So, even given semi-frequent HPDE 7500 is still safe?

Yes I know.... I'm an overthinker. So once I get it in my head, it's hard to get it out. Even with the mileage, you think the stock suspension is still worth running into the ground?

My boss happens to be an instructor and currently competing in a race series. So one of these days he will coach me

Oh and, funny guy over here



You can do 5,000 if it helps you sleep better at night...it's your car and your money. Maybe do 5,000 on the next one and send a sample to Blackstone Labs and see if you can push it to 7,500. Everyone's motor and driving habits are different. Even if you're getting oil for $8/qt, why pour out $80 worth of oil that's still serviceable?

I'm not saying run the suspension into the ground, I'm saying focus on the fundamentals and learning how to push the car to its limits. You'll get much more utility from hiring a coach for two weekends and doing four days of HPDE than you will from upgrading the suspension. Don't be that guy with a crazy track car who is getting passed by Spec Miatas.

Just as an example, my coach got 2+ seconds off my time in a single weekend on a 1.7 mile course just by making small adjustments to my technique -- and I was not an HPDE noob. On that track, 2 seconds is what an $1800 set of Hoosiers would've gotten me with my same medicore trailbraking technique. The next time I went to that track, I got another 2 seconds off by continuing to refine what we worked on. So yeah, 4 seconds in total, and now I can apply that to any other track I drive on any other car.
Good points. I see a lot of folks talking about spring and suspension upgrades but every good coach tackles braking and keeping weight on nose first before recommending hardware.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST