New water pump and Tstat - high fan speed

[evilpinkeye]

Hey everyone, really annoying issue.

2011 M3, Just swapped in a new water pump with the metal blade along with a new thermostat as a precautionary maintenance ( was there swapping valve cover gasket) and now the oil temp raises higher than usual. Does this at idle, at the light, and even at low speed.

Because of this, the fan goes into high speed and will only slow down if I turn on the heater, which of course lowers the temp at tad lower than midway kn the gauge.

The only thing I feel that I can do is to try making sure there is no air in the system.
To accomplish this, I removed the reservoir cap completely and let the car idle with a few revs to help move the water around. Made sure to turn on the heater to help burp the heater core but nothing. Didnt drain the water though. Just topped off and made sure to check the following days.

Searched like mad but couldn't find a clear cut answer that did not involve an electric pump.

Any help would be great.

PS: F the god damn flimsy, chip happy, water pump pulley...


Searched everywhere for any tip to get it back on the pump, but damn that tight space. If I could offer any sort of advise on this, since the water pump was basically drained, I would advise either disconnecting the bottom reservoir hose from the metal housing in the front of the engine or just gently pull the entire reservoir toward the front of the engine bay to help create some clearance that would otherwise be eaten up by the hose mentioned. Then carely maneuver the stupid pulley in there. If the bottom of the pulley gets caught/jammed, dont force it. Just slide out and retry. Good news is the part isn't too expensive. Ask me how I know...


Thanks!

[dbyrd]

Same thing just happened to me when I changed the temp sensor, thermostat and impeller. My mechanic thought it wasn't related to the coolant work I did and recommended installing the Epic oil diverter. He said that the oil thermostat can get stuck or gummed up in the tighter area under the filter housing. The tiny diverter bypasses the thermostat routing all oil to the cooler. The oil diverter is under $100 but it cost me 6 hours of labor - well worth it. The job was definitely beyond my capability, but I've seen a DIY herein when I was researching.

When he was in there, he thoroughly cleaned the filter housing. He found what he thought was gasket sealer/material from replacing the valve gaskets a year or two before. The thermostat had a small piece of material rapped around the center.

Now, my oil temps are significantly lower than they've ever been. I can barely get the oil temps past 210 with very spirited driving when it was running around 235 on the highway before. I haven't been back to the track yet, but I'm sure I won't be overheating as I have been.

I'm not saying this is your solution but something to consider. I thought it was air in the system, too, but my water temps were not high. Search this forum for Epic oil diverter. Bimmerworld has them.

[evilpinkeye]

Dang it...so a possible clog and it makes sense because I had to do the gasket job twice as one of the sparkplug tubes didn't sit right so a leak ensued. The second time is when I did water pump + stat. This would of course increase the chances of your suggestion.

The idea of having to take apart the hole thing is making me dread this real bad...

[dbyrd]

See this thread if you haven't already. The DIY was far above my ability.

Epic Oil Diverter Valve Success! https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577384

[evilpinkeye]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

See this thread if you haven't already. The DIY was far above my ability.

Epic Oil Diverter Valve Success! https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577384

Thanks alot. I feel like I can do this but it comes down to, do I want to do this... lol

Took it out for a drive earlier and monitored both the oil and water temps with the app protool. Water when rolling about was at 175-190 and oil was 10 degrees more, which is normal but as soon as it hits 212+ on oil, the fan starts kicking up to jet engine levels sound.

Not sure if its old though but did see a temp sensor error 2B59 logged... may swap the dang sensor back to old one that gave the same error before but will wait to see if the error comes up again with the new one.

Dang cars

[evilpinkeye]

for others that may run into this thread - scanned the car and got error A6D1 which lead me to this thread https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1687639

Basically the aux water pump found on the side driver side, may be failing or even disconnected as I did disconnect it at one point to make some room while I worked. This would make sense as this pump makes sure the car has cabin heat + water continues to circulate while idling at the light and what have you.

Will report back later...

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

for others that may run into this thread - scanned the car and got error A6D1 which lead me to this thread https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1687639

Basically the aux water pump found on the side driver side, may be failing or even disconnected as I did disconnect it at one point to make some room while I worked. This would make sense as this pump makes sure the car has cabin heat + water continues to circulate while idling at the light and what have you.

Will report back later...

As mentioned in that thread, had the A6D1 for a long time, haven't noticed anything wrong with the engine oil getting hot. Typically stays just below 100C even after warm up.

Did you check the coolant temp after the tstat replacement?

Ps. Do have occasional issue with hot DCT fluid, also involving hhe aux pump, another story though.

[evilpinkeye]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

As mentioned in that thread, had the A6D1 for a long time, haven't noticed anything wrong with the engine oil getting hot. Typically stays just below 100C even after warm up.

Did you check the coolant temp after the tstat replacement?

Ps. Do have occasional issue with hot DCT fluid, also involving hhe aux pump, another story though.

thankfully its not overheating like mad but it does goes a notch over halfway on the oil temp gauge which is when it kicks off the fan at turbo speed.
Data logging did show while driving its good for both oil and water but goes up when parked or at the light. to combat this, I just crack the heat on a tad.

Car is manual so good on that front.

Did swap the aux pump with a used clean one that tested good but no improvement. I'm starting to suspect there is a lot of air in the system that needs to be bled since I disconnected the several hoses during the pump and stat swap. Did try to bleed several times and even left off the reservoir cap off for a bit while the car idled with an occasional 2k rev. nothing smh.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

thankfully its not overheating like mad but it does goes a notch over halfway on the oil temp gauge which is when it kicks off the fan at turbo speed.
Data logging did show while driving its good for both oil and water but goes up when parked or at the light. to combat this, I just crack the heat on a tad.

Car is manual so good on that front.

Did swap the aux pump with a used clean one that tested good but no improvement. I'm starting to suspect there is a lot of air in the system that needs to be bled since I disconnected the several hoses during the pump and stat swap. Did try to bleed several times and even left off the reservoir cap off for a bit while the car idled with an occasional 2k rev. nothing smh.

Prior replacing my tstat a few weeks ago I also read around regarding the bleed procedure and found that using the aux pump a'la standard 3 series isn't the way to go and not needed for the S65. Hence I did like everybody else seems to do i.e. simply start the engine and let the air sneak out via the bleed screew on the coolant reservoir. Topped up once or twice, no issues what so ever.
However I let a quite limited amount of coolant out by sucking the reservoir dry first, and I obvioulsy didn't have to empy the pump, so not tons of air in their when I was done.

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

thankfully its not overheating like mad but it does goes a notch over halfway on the oil temp gauge which is when it kicks off the fan at turbo speed.
Data logging did show while driving its good for both oil and water but goes up when parked or at the light. to combat this, I just crack the heat on a tad.

Car is manual so good on that front.

Did swap the aux pump with a used clean one that tested good but no improvement. I'm starting to suspect there is a lot of air in the system that needs to be bled since I disconnected the several hoses during the pump and stat swap. Did try to bleed several times and even left off the reservoir cap off for a bit while the car idled with an occasional 2k rev. nothing smh.

Raise the front of the car , start car,set fan speed to low , temp to 84, and Squeeze On The Tubes .

Fan speed also depends on rate of rise of the coolant temperature

[evilpinkeye]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Prior replacing my tstat a few weeks ago I also read around regarding the bleed procedure and found that using the aux pump a'la standard 3 series isn't the way to go and not needed for the S65. Hence I did like everybody else seems to do i.e. simply start the engine and let the air sneak out via the bleed screew on the coolant reservoir. Topped up once or twice, no issues what so ever.
However I let a quite limited amount of coolant out by sucking the reservoir dry first, and I obvioulsy didn't have to empty the pump, so not tons of air in their when I was done.

Did read posts about using pump to force the air out but like you said, i just let my car sit with the cap and bleeder open for a bit like 4 times. No improvement yet but at least car does not go over 220 at least.

@atopa2002 my driveway has an incline that i did take advantage of but no luck.
I'm scared that all the work + parts that went into this will come down to requiring another set of pump/therm/sensor because the new thing its doing is when the car is shutoff, the fan remains on for a min or so. When I searched for this, every post out there said its the pump failing or temp sensor ooor fan. smh I hate winter...

At least I got the parts from FCP Euro I guess

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

Did read posts about using pump to force the air out but like you said, i just let my car sit with the cap and bleeder open for a bit like 4 times. No improvement yet but at least car does not go over 220 at least.

@atopa2002 my driveway has an incline that i did take advantage of but no luck.
I'm scared that all the work + parts that went into this will come down to requiring another set of pump/therm/sensor because the new thing its doing is when the car is shutoff, the fan remains on for a min or so. When I searched for this, every post out there said its the pump failing or temp sensor ooor fan. smh I hate winter...

At least I got the parts from FCP Euro I guess

Was high oil temp the reason you started to replace pump/tstat or how did things work prior the project mate?

[evilpinkeye]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Was high oil temp the reason you started to replace pump/tstat or how did things work prior the project mate?

What made me attack the pump was the codes a6d1 and 2b59 +valve cover leak. A wile there moment.

2b59 was somewhat frequent for me. reset and it would come back every few weeks.
a6d1 was my ah ah moment as it came up for the first time while battling the sight overheat.

Otherwise, car ran just fine and never over heated aside from the burnt oil smell + smoke that came up when I would go woot thanks to the increased oil pressure that increased the leak onto the driver side header smh. that's thankfully fixed.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

What made me attack the pump was the codes a6d1 and 2b59 +valve cover leak. A wile there moment.

2b59 was somewhat frequent for me. reset and it would come back every few weeks.
a6d1 was my ah ah moment as it came up for the first time while battling the sight overheat.

Otherwise, car ran just fine and never over heated aside from the burnt oil smell + smoke that came up when I would go woot thanks to the increased oil pressure that increased the leak onto the driver side header smh. that's thankfully fixed.

I have no experience from the valve cover leak (how does that generate a code??), but again a failing aux pump (A6D1) I'm pretty sure will not fiddle with the engine temp at all, every 2nd BMW have this failing.

If the temp was fine before you started to work those bits...I'd start there. See you have Carly where you can follow both coolant and oil temp which will give you some fairly good pointers. Coolant should obviously take the lead, to stop around 79C where after oil temp comes and eventually pass it. At stop and go/idling the coolant temp also comes up but should get squeezed down to around 80C again once you get on the move. If this doesn't seem to be your coolant cycle, the coolant system may the the issue. If it does, its probably something else, but where would that all of a sudden come from?

From what I've read the typicall tstat issue is that it opens earlier than 79C (which was the case with mine), but guess it could get sqewed the other was as well, and maybe even when its new. What brand tstat did you get?

[evilpinkeye]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

I have no experience from the valve cover leak (how does that generate a code??), but again a failing aux pump (A6D1) I'm pretty sure will not fiddle with the engine temp at all, every 2nd BMW have this failing.

If the temp was fine before you started to work those bits...I'd start there. See you have Carly where you can follow both coolant and oil temp which will give you some fairly good pointers. Coolant should obviously take the lead, to stop around 79C where after oil temp comes and eventually pass it. At stop and go/idling the coolant temp also comes up but should get squeezed down to around 80C again once you get on the move. If this doesn't seem to be your coolant cycle, the coolant system may the the issue. If it does, its probably something else, but where would that all of a sudden come from?

From what I've read the typical tstat issue is that it opens earlier than 79C (which was the case with mine), but guess it could get sqewed the other was as well, and maybe even when its new. What brand tstat did you get?

Really appreciate your help and insight.

I actually have protool and inpa (haven't scanned with this yet) but logged water at 94.694C and oil at 104C or 212.72F which is just over half on the oil temp gauge.

As to the parts:
Mahle Behr 11537836155 tstat
VNE 13621433076 - water temp sensor
Graf 11517838201 - water pump

Just incase, noticed my valve gasket was leaking a tad, swapped it, one sparkplug seal broke, flooding a tube then over flowing onto headers. the code I generated was which prompted me to retry with new tube and do the water pump.

I just really hope its not something along the lines of what dbyrd mentioned earlier because damn it...

[Helmsman]

Hmm, and did you hook up the svanner from start so you can follow the resp temps? Tstat certainly seem to be the correct one but as a long shot make sure it halts at 79C?

[evilpinkeye]

I does creep over 79C over unfortunately.
Scanned today and got the following:
Alternator warning has come up before but never really created an issue but should address asap of course.

The Aux pump came up again. Keep in mind it's used and tested before installing. May rebuild my one.


Chassis: E92
Model: M3
Engine: S65B40O0
Body Style: Coupe


****************** Errors ******************
--------------------------------------------
FAMILY [VARIANTE] | CODE: DESCRIPTION
--------------------------------------------

JBBF [JBBF70] | A6D1: No description found

EDC [EDCK65] | No errors found

FRM [FRM_70] | 9CC6: Mirror heating, passenger's side, faulty
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CB4: Ride-height sensor, rear, faulty
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CB3: Ride-height sensor, front, faulty

CAS [CAS] | No errors found

RDC [RDCKWP] | No errors found

PGS [PGS_65_2] | No errors found

KOMBI [KOMB87] | No errors found

FAS [FAS_PLX] | No errors found

ZBE [ZBE_60_2] | No errors found

CID [CID_90] | No errors found

BFS [BFS_PLX] | No errors found

DME/DDE [MSS60] | 278D: BSD, message; alternator: Missing

KLIMA [IHKA87_2] | No errors found

DSC [DSC_87] | 5DE0: Brake-pad wear: plausibility, front axle

DWA [DWA_E65] | No errors found

MRS [MRS5] | No errors found

VIRTSG92 [] | No errors found

CCC [CICR_HD] | No errors found

SINE [SINE_65] | No errors found

TEL/MULF [CMEDIAR] | No errors found

MOSTGW [CICR_GW] | No errors found

AMP [AMPT70] | No errors found

MASK/CCC [CICR] | E1CF: No description found

FZD [FZD_87] | No errors found


BimmerGeeks ProTool

Date: 02.12.21 01:55 PM

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

I does creep over 79C over unfortunately.
Scanned today and got the following:
Alternator warning has come up before but never really created an issue but should address asap of course.

The Aux pump came up again. Keep in mind it's used and tested before installing. May rebuild my one.


Chassis: E92
Model: M3
Engine: S65B40O0
Body Style: Coupe


****************** Errors ******************
--------------------------------------------
FAMILY [VARIANTE] | CODE: DESCRIPTION
--------------------------------------------

JBBF [JBBF70] | A6D1: No description found

EDC [EDCK65] | No errors found

FRM [FRM_70] | 9CC6: Mirror heating, passenger's side, faulty
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CB4: Ride-height sensor, rear, faulty
FRM [FRM_70] | 9CB3: Ride-height sensor, front, faulty

CAS [CAS] | No errors found

RDC [RDCKWP] | No errors found

PGS [PGS_65_2] | No errors found

KOMBI [KOMB87] | No errors found

FAS [FAS_PLX] | No errors found

ZBE [ZBE_60_2] | No errors found

CID [CID_90] | No errors found

BFS [BFS_PLX] | No errors found

DME/DDE [MSS60] | 278D: BSD, message; alternator: Missing

KLIMA [IHKA87_2] | No errors found

DSC [DSC_87] | 5DE0: Brake-pad wear: plausibility, front axle

DWA [DWA_E65] | No errors found

MRS [MRS5] | No errors found

VIRTSG92 [] | No errors found

CCC [CICR_HD] | No errors found

SINE [SINE_65] | No errors found

TEL/MULF [CMEDIAR] | No errors found

MOSTGW [CICR_GW] | No errors found

AMP [AMPT70] | No errors found

MASK/CCC [CICR] | E1CF: No description found

FZD [FZD_87] | No errors found


BimmerGeeks ProTool

Date: 02.12.21 01:55 PM

It will pass 79C at stand still and stop/go traffic but once the heat exchanger get air flow it should come down to around 79C again.

Interesting with your A6D1 even with replaced pump. After I replaced my Tstat, the pump all of a sudden started prior I started the car (filter box off so could come close for listening). But again, get the code back soon as I cleared it. Hmm, so maybe I shouldn't bother replacing it.

You want to make sure that the alternator is doing its job. Not sure about your scanner but some (like Carly) measure the alternator output current, which should give you an idea.

[evilpinkeye]

Hey guys,

Still wresting with this annoyance. I'm going to call FCP to see if I can get parts swaps under the "life time" warranty because car was running like a champ until I swapped. Bled like crazy and even swapped in a different aux pump with no improvement.

Below is a onedrive share of a data log I gathered at first start till shutdown (went to a store about 5 miles away).
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AoCqJEGsuOJOjqI_EM5kLo17Yqx2cA


From my understanding, Tstat would open once it reaches 1774ish degrees, so at this point I should see the temp somewhat level off a tad right? Times just kept climbing at a pace that was almost double the oil temps. Suspecting the tstat is a dud.

Alternator levels are there as well along with rpm to show when its idling and such.

Hate this especially when this thing needs the bumpers resprayed and new brakes up front. I'll never get a supercharger at the pace smh

[pbonsalb]

Water does warm up faster than oil. Was the thermostat BMW or OEM or aftermarket? Did you by any chance put the hotter one in? Troy Jeup recommends a hotter one because it has the side effect of helping the oil warm up faster. I installed one a few years ago and the fan runs on high frequently. It’s really loud. I will probably change back to a stock one this year just because of the loud fan.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by evilpinkeye

Hey guys,

Still wresting with this annoyance. I'm going to call FCP to see if I can get parts swaps under the "life time" warranty because car was running like a champ until I swapped. Bled like crazy and even swapped in a different aux pump with no improvement.

Below is a onedrive share of a data log I gathered at first start till shutdown (went to a store about 5 miles away).
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AoCqJEGsuOJOjqI_EM5kLo17Yqx2cA


From my understanding, Tstat would open once it reaches 1774ish degrees, so at this point I should see the temp somewhat level off a tad right? Times just kept climbing at a pace that was almost double the oil temps. Suspecting the tstat is a dud.

Alternator levels are there as well along with rpm to show when its idling and such.

Hate this especially when this thing needs the bumpers resprayed and new brakes up front. I'll never get a supercharger at the pace smh

Yes, once reached 79C the coolant should maintane around that temp as long as you have air flow, at stop/idling it will go up a bit to fall back once moving. I'm recon even if the fan would be broken, the coolant comes down if you move at fair speed. I'd replace the Tstat once more.

[evilpinkeye]

well TStat was swapped and no dice, still repeats the high fan speed at idle and after a drive.

Next swap...temp sensor.

Its crazy how there is no really documentation on how to properly perform the swaps and such. especially the bleeding which I suspect is the real culprit.