Apple CarPlay/Android Auto Retrofit

[PACarGuy]

Originally Posted by derbo

brettcp

Wireless Carplay requires both Bluetooth and WiFi to work. It also requires GPS location data.

BT is used to connect/discover devices.
WiFi is the medium for audio/video transfer.

If you want to read more about it or watch the video from WWDC 2017 that talks about wireless Carplay and how to set up a device.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/717/

It is interesting how the BT discovery and response messages are set up to trigger the WiFi access point and transfer the medium. Then again, I work with networks as a professional so my excitement might be bias.

I messaged with the contact from Kremersino and he says that there is no additional WiFi connection for their unit. Given the info above, not sure how they're achieving data streaming, though in our new X3 we only connect to Carplay via Bluetooth as well, so maybe WiFi really isn't required?

He also confirmed that it does come with USB connection though mentioned that the charge rate isn't that high so will likely have to use the USB split dongle to get extra power from the original USB port.

I think for $300 I'm going to give this a shot and see how it goes.

[brettcp]

Joyeauto responded and said that the $300 unit on Aliexpress is a "Totally different device" than theirs.

I also received an e-mail from Unichip this morning: "Hi, our wireless carplay box is preselling now. Shipping will be at the end of this month."

...so it seems these are finally hitting the market.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by PACarGuy

I messaged with the contact from Kremersino and he says that there is no additional WiFi connection for their unit. Given the info above, not sure how they're achieving data streaming, though in our new X3 we only connect to Carplay via Bluetooth as well, so maybe WiFi really isn't required?

He also confirmed that it does come with USB connection though mentioned that the charge rate isn't that high so will likely have to use the USB split dongle to get extra power from the original USB port.

I think for $300 I'm going to give this a shot and see how it goes.

Wireless is definitely required. From what I've read about the Car Play framework, it is very similar to how AppleTV 3rd gen does Peer to Peer Airplay. Bluetooth discovery is used to find devices then negotiate an ad-hoc wifi network to transfer the data.


you can definitely test this in your X3.

Connect to the Wireless Apple Carplay
Try to connect to a mobile hotspot while in Wireless Carplay. It should not let you since you are using the Wifi for ACP.

I'm positive it requires WiFi as Bluetooth is a POOR protocol to transfer that amount of data across.

[PACarGuy]

Originally Posted by derbo

Wireless is definitely required. From what I've read about the Car Play framework, it is very similar to how AppleTV 3rd gen does Peer to Peer Airplay. Bluetooth discovery is used to find devices then negotiate an ad-hoc wifi network to transfer the data.


you can definitely test this in your X3.

Connect to the Wireless Apple Carplay
Try to connect to a mobile hotspot while in Wireless Carplay. It should not let you since you are using the Wifi for ACP.

I'm positive it requires WiFi as Bluetooth is a POOR protocol to transfer that amount of data across.

Gotcha. Will have to try that in the X3 and see what it's doing.

Maybe he misunderstood my question but he only stated that you connect via Bluetooth. He didn't say that a separate WiFi connection was needed and their demo video doesn't show one. Maybe it's ad-hoc as you describe.

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by derbo

Wireless is definitely required. From what I've read about the Car Play framework, it is very similar to how AppleTV 3rd gen does Peer to Peer Airplay. Bluetooth discovery is used to find devices then negotiate an ad-hoc wifi network to transfer the data.


you can definitely test this in your X3.

Connect to the Wireless Apple Carplay
Try to connect to a mobile hotspot while in Wireless Carplay. It should not let you since you are using the Wifi for ACP.

I'm positive it requires WiFi as Bluetooth is a POOR protocol to transfer that amount of data across.

Agreed. Here's an article about how it works:

"Wireless CarPlay has three requirements, a Bluetooth connection, a Wi-Fi access point, and location data. Here’s is a simplified breakdown of the entire process:

To initialize the connection the phone uses Bluetooth to send a signal to the head unit requesting to connect.

Once the Bluetooth connection is made the phone will request wireless credentials to the Wi-Fi access point.

Upon confirmation the head unit will send the wireless credentials to the iPhone, which will cause the phone to search and join the Wi-Fi access point.

After the Wi-Fi connection has been established, the Bluetooth signal will disconnect and all audio and video will be transferred over Wi-Fi.

And now you’re set, you now can use CarPlay wirelessly."

I'm leaning toward the Joyeauto unit at the moment.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by PACarGuy

Gotcha. Will have to try that in the X3 and see what it's doing.

Maybe he misunderstood my question but he only stated that you connect via Bluetooth. He didn't say that a separate WiFi connection was needed and their demo video doesn't show one. Maybe it's ad-hoc as you describe.

I don't expect the WiFi signal to be the traditional SSID you have to connect to. It is basically a backend that doesn't show up. It is very similar to how AppleTV uses the WiFi radio on Channel 149 but the actual WiFi does not broadcast an SSID or anything of that nature. If you setup a wireshark on a device to listen to the air, you will most likely see the WiFi beacon packets from the headunit though. That's probably way overboard to confirm it is using WiFi for most people .

[yuyuyuyu]

WiFi was needed for this kit, my phone kept on prompting me to turn it on because I had it off when I was in my car last night

Looked at the WiFi menu and there's an ssid called carplay_wifi, but there wasnt a need to establish this connection at all.

All I did was pair via bluetooth and the carplay UI was activated

[derbo]

Originally Posted by yuyuyuyu

WiFi was needed for this kit, my phone kept on prompting me to turn it on because I had it off when I was in my car last night

Looked at the WiFi menu and there's an ssid called carplay_wifi, but there wasnt a need to establish this connection at all.

All I did was pair via bluetooth and the carplay UI was activated

That makes perfect sense. It sends the authentication keys via BT, then connects to the WiFi, then deactivate the BT connection.

From my reading, if you plug into the USB before paired, the iPhone will ask you to enable wireless carplay and do all the negotiation for setting up BT and WiFi portions via the USB cable to make it even more seamless.

[timstar]

Originally Posted by derbo

Seems like timstar will be the first to try this!

Please keep us in the loop

So I've got the unit all wired up and wireless carplay is connecting and working fine. Sound quality is great, however so far the track control buttons on the steering wheel don't work. The telephone button on the steering wheel works to dial the last called number though.
At first I couldn't see how any of the steering wheel buttons could work as the device only seems to intercept the idrive controller and the video signal.
The idrive controller will skip tracks by pushing the knob either left or right though so I may be able to live with that.
I have asked JoyeAuto about it, because the packaging info that came with the unit shows the steering wheel buttons can be used to change tracks.
Hoping to get the install finished this morning, but for now I'm refereeing my 2.5yo and 4yo boys!
Will post updates as they develop!

[timstar]

Originally Posted by timstar

So I've got the unit all wired up and wireless carplay is connecting and working fine. Sound quality is great, however so far the track control buttons on the steering wheel don't work. The telephone button on the steering wheel works to dial the last called number though.
At first I couldn't see how any of the steering wheel buttons could work as the device only seems to intercept the idrive controller and the video signal.
The idrive controller will skip tracks by pushing the knob either left or right though so I may be able to live with that.
I have asked JoyeAuto about it, because the packaging info that came with the unit shows the steering wheel buttons can be used to change tracks.
Hoping to get the install finished this morning, but for now I'm refereeing my 2.5yo and 4yo boys!
Will post updates as they develop!

Ok, I have an update.
The Telephone button on the steering wheel was working because my iPhone was still connected to the factory bluetooth as well as carplay. Once I disconnected from the factory bluetooth, the tel button does nothing, can't even answer a call with it.
That may be annoying as I have two phones, and was planning on having my work phone connected to the factory bluetooth so I could use either phone while in the car.
Hmm...

[derbo]

Originally Posted by timstar

Ok, I have an update.
The Telephone button on the steering wheel was working because my iPhone was still connected to the factory bluetooth as well as carplay. Once I disconnected from the factory bluetooth, the tel button does nothing, can't even answer a call with it.
That may be annoying as I have two phones, and was planning on having my work phone connected to the factory bluetooth so I could use either phone while in the car.
Hmm...

This doesn't seem like a normal sceneario for people. lol. However, the steering wheel controls to skip audio does concern me. From what I know, the wired version works with the steering controls.

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by timstar

So I've got the unit all wired up and wireless carplay is connecting and working fine. Sound quality is great, however so far the track control buttons on the steering wheel don't work. The telephone button on the steering wheel works to dial the last called number though.
At first I couldn't see how any of the steering wheel buttons could work as the device only seems to intercept the idrive controller and the video signal.
The idrive controller will skip tracks by pushing the knob either left or right though so I may be able to live with that.
I have asked JoyeAuto about it, because the packaging info that came with the unit shows the steering wheel buttons can be used to change tracks.
Hoping to get the install finished this morning, but for now I'm refereeing my 2.5yo and 4yo boys!
Will post updates as they develop!

Please do keep us posted - I'm relying on your thorough review to decide which one to go with!

[timstar]

Originally Posted by brettcp

Please do keep us posted - I'm relying on your thorough review to decide which one to go with!

So far I’ve spent the day with JoyeAuto support trying to get the reverse camera working. No luck as of yet.
Seems that the steering controls dont work for tracks, which after looking at how the unit is installed makes sense. The unit doesn’t hook into anything except the idrive controller and the video signal from the original head unit, so I can’t see a way it could detect a button press from the steering wheel.
I should point out, as it may be relevant, my car was originally CCC but was retrofitted with CIC, so perhaps this is causing issue.
I have some ideas on how I might be able to get the steering control to work, but its all theoretical at the moment.
After a day with JoyeAuto support, I’ve been really happy with how helpful they’ve been, even though they haven’t been able to solve my problem.. but it seems that my car doesn’t trigger the reverse signal the way the box is expecting it, again possibly because mine is a CIC retrofit.
Anyway, I’ll keep tinkering and update as I go.

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by timstar

So far I’ve spent the day with JoyeAuto support trying to get the reverse camera working. No luck as of yet.
Seems that the steering controls dont work for tracks, which after looking at how the unit is installed makes sense. The unit doesn’t hook into anything except the idrive controller and the video signal from the original head unit, so I can’t see a way it could detect a button press from the steering wheel.
I should point out, as it may be relevant, my car was originally CCC but was retrofitted with CIC, so perhaps this is causing issue.
I have some ideas on how I might be able to get the steering control to work, but its all theoretical at the moment.
After a day with JoyeAuto support, I’ve been really happy with how helpful they’ve been, even though they haven’t been able to solve my problem.. but it seems that my car doesn’t trigger the reverse signal the way the box is expecting it, again possibly because mine is a CIC retrofit.
Anyway, I’ll keep tinkering and update as I go.

That's interesting... I have a '12 M3 with original CIC, but have added a backup camera (via an emulator) which works 100% perfect.. wondering if this carplay unit would break this? My camera is spliced into the quadlock connector and functions just as OEM. I wouldn't be willing to give up my backup camera so I'm curious to know how this is resolved.

[timstar]

Originally Posted by brettcp

That's interesting... I have a '12 M3 with original CIC, but have added a backup camera (via an emulator) which works 100% perfect.. wondering if this carplay unit would break this? My camera is spliced into the quadlock connector and functions just as OEM. I wouldn't be willing to give up my backup camera so I'm curious to know how this is resolved.

It shouldn't break your emulated OEM camera, as you can set the box to use original camera, which in my setup displays my original PDC screen, so I imagine it would display your backup cam if set up that way.

[timstar]

So I'm starting to think the problems I'm having is because my car has CIC retrofit and I suspect an emulator was used.
From what I understand, emulators aren't required anymore and the CIC retrofit can be done with coding or FSC codes.. so I'm going to look into pulling out the emulator.

[timstar]

Originally Posted by timstar

So I'm starting to think the problems I'm having is because my car has CIC retrofit and I suspect an emulator was used.
From what I understand, emulators aren't required anymore and the CIC retrofit can be done with coding or FSC codes.. so I'm going to look into pulling out the emulator.

Well that was a bust, pulled the CIC out and can’t see anything resembling an emulator. There is 3 wires out of the back of the big black connector that go nowhere.. the mystery continues.

Anyway, here’s my review of the CarPlay unit anyway.

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the device. The boot time is very quick as it starts powering up as soon as I unlock the door, resulting in carplay coming up about 3 seconds after starting the car.
The reverse camera is working, however we can’t get guidelines or PDC to display on the camera because the unit can’t detect my reverse signal without using the reverse lights... this is likely due me having a retrofitted CIC although I’m still not sure.
I can’t change tracks using the steering wheel buttons, however pushing the controller knob right or left achieves the same result so I can live with that for now.
The sound quality is great, I have left the EQ on whatever it was set to by default and it sounds a lot better than the Bluetooth Aux adapter I was using previously. Even Siri sounds clear and crisp when she speaks.
Controlling CarPlay with the controller is easy and responsive, I experienced a little bit of lag once, but the device had only just finished coming up from a reboot so I’m assuming that was the cause.
Siri hasn’t had any trouble hearing me and I’ve made one phone call so far and I didn’t get any complaints.
Installation was pretty straight forward, I ended up cable tying the unit in behind the steering wheel so it’s all hidden behind the dash.

All in all, I’m pretty happy with it. Disappointed about the steering wheel controls and cam integration, but I plan on trying a cam emulator to see if I can just get OEM cam/pdc/guidelines and have the CarPlay box use that.

Cheers,
Tim

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by yuyuyuyu

WiFi was needed for this kit, my phone kept on prompting me to turn it on because I had it off when I was in my car last night

Looked at the WiFi menu and there's an ssid called carplay_wifi, but there wasnt a need to establish this connection at all.

All I did was pair via bluetooth and the carplay UI was activated

Do your steering wheel controls work for controlling audio (track forward/previous) via carplay?

[yuyuyuyu]

Originally Posted by brettcp

Do your steering wheel controls work for controlling audio (track forward/previous) via carplay?

Yes

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by yuyuyuyu

Yes

Interesting.. timstar doesn't have his steering wheel track controls working on the joyeauto unit, I wonder if this further suggests his issues are due to his CCC-CIC retrofit.. since your's works, we know its possible.

Does anybody else on this thread have the joyeauto unit on order yet?

[yuyuyuyu]

Originally Posted by brettcp

Interesting.. timstar doesn't have his steering wheel track controls working on the joyeauto unit, I wonder if this further suggests his issues are due to his CCC-CIC retrofit.. since your's works, we know its possible.

Does anybody else on this thread have the joyeauto unit on order yet?

I also have a cic retrofit with an emulator

[timstar]

Originally Posted by yuyuyuyu

I also have a cic retrofit with an emulator

Well that's interesting.
And can I confirm, for your install did you only have to connect the 4 pin harness for the i-drive controller and then LVDS connections?