DIY: S65 M3 Rod Bearing

[SYT_Shadow]

Good luck bigjae!! Let us know if you run into any snags and what your bearings look like

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Good luck bigjae!! Let us know if you run into any snags and what your bearings look like

Thanks. Won't be able to see the bearings until next weekend.

I'm going to get the subframe off this morning. Only have 2-3 hours to work on it and I'll be gone all week.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I did it once dropping the SF and once not. It's quicker to not drop, but if you are a DIYer enjoying a project, a little extra time does not matter.

For OE rod bolts, you might save a couple of minutes but it's way easier to do the job right with the subframe out of the way on my E46.

Looking at the E90 subframe...looks to be even more of a PIA.

If you're using ARPs with the single torque procedure, then letting the subframe hang really won't slow you down.

[bigjae1976]

So you're saying I need a new engine mount?

It was in one piece but came apart when I pulled down on the subframe.

There are so damn many hoses on this car!!!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

So you're saying I need a new engine mount?

It was in one piece but came apart when I pulled down on the subframe.

There are so damn many hoses on this car!!!

wowww!!!!

this car eats through engine mounts!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

wowww!!!!

this car eats through engine mounts!

My car has seen track use so I'm sure the heat and torque is what kills the engine mounts. I'm confident that if I wasn't doing this rod bearing job, my engine mounts would still be fine.

BTW...this is the pass side which has always been the one that fails first for me.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

My car has seen track use so I'm sure the heat and torque is what kills the engine mounts. I'm confident that if I wasn't doing this rod bearing job, my engine mounts would still be fine.

BTW...this is the pass side which has always been the one that fails first for me.

Your cold, hard stare keeps the driver side mount in its place b/c it's too scared to do anything untoward...

Too many hoses. Do the engine mounts on an E53 X5 N62 4.4 and get back to me on your assessment.

Can't wait to see your bearings.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by admranger

Your cold, hard stare keeps the driver side mount in its place b/c it's too scared to do anything untoward...

Too many hoses. Do the engine mounts on an E53 X5 N62 4.4 and get back to me on your assessment.

Can't wait to see your bearings.

I'm really curious too.

[bigjae1976]

Bearings looked pretty bad but really can't tell if doom was pending.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...0#post21438580

Really need to order new engine mounts when you do this job. I forgot so now I'll have to wait until next weekend to finish this up.

[SYT_Shadow]

Glad you got them swapped out

In the old copper ones you can really 'see' the wear. In these new ones you just see a slight color change

Engine mounts are definitely a must

[rymerc]

Thanks for the writeup, was helpful while doing mine this past weekend.

On my 2008 e90 manual, a couple things to add (sorry if I missed them in the comments)

My steering linkage had a locator sleeve/collar on the splined connection at either end- I marked the steering shaft, but it could only go back on one way (unless you spun it 360 degrees) which was nice - no steering-wheel alignment issues.

The upper E12 on the passenger side bellhousing/oil pan interface was difficult to access with my ratchet/socket, and for my manual trans-equipped E90 required me to unbolt the trans cooler lines from the bracket and deflect them slightly.

Upon completion, was very easy to press the starter button, let the engine spin over a couple times, then release the clutch slightly to keep it from firing. Very quick and easy to do this 6ish times to get oil pressure before firing. If you're into that sort of thing.

Motor mounts had some fine cracks, but at 60k were pretty decent and very firm. I had replacement mounts on hand, which must be for a different model BMW because they're much softer.

[SYT_Shadow]

Thanks for the comments. I'm glad you got them replaced

I'm probably doing my 2013 E92 this weekend... very curious about the bearings!

[deansbimmer]

A lot of people seem to be concerned about "pre-oiling" the rod bearings or trying to build oil pressure before starting the engine after a rod bearing job. It is unnecessary.

During this job, you should be oiling the bearings with assembly lube prior to bolting the rod caps back on. Once you fill the pan again with oil, the engine picks up oil pressure within one to two seconds- about the same as any typical cold start. Attempting to crank the engine one pop at a time without allowing it to start will only fling off the assembly lube that was put there to begin with. Just start the engine normally after this job.

Oiling-wise, aside from the ounce or two of oil in the pump pickup tubes that falls out when you remove them- the engine considers this no different than an oil change. If anything the engine is better protected as long as you don't crank off all of the assembly lube!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by rymerc

Thanks for the writeup, was helpful while doing mine this past weekend.

On my 2008 e90 manual, a couple things to add (sorry if I missed them in the comments)

My steering linkage had a locator sleeve/collar on the splined connection at either end- I marked the steering shaft, but it could only go back on one way (unless you spun it 360 degrees) which was nice - no steering-wheel alignment issues.

The upper E12 on the passenger side bellhousing/oil pan interface was difficult to access with my ratchet/socket, and for my manual trans-equipped E90 required me to unbolt the trans cooler lines from the bracket and deflect them slightly.

Upon completion, was very easy to press the starter button, let the engine spin over a couple times, then release the clutch slightly to keep it from firing. Very quick and easy to do this 6ish times to get oil pressure before firing. If you're into that sort of thing.

Motor mounts had some fine cracks, but at 60k were pretty decent and very firm. I had replacement mounts on hand, which must be for a different model BMW because they're much softer.

Same here on the steering rack. There were 2 nubs and a detent on the steering rack splines. I think it will only go on, at worst, 1 spline to the left or right. That is after you get the focker back on...this and (since I pulled the whole steering rack off) rerouting all the damned hoses were the biggest PIAs.

Did you pull on each end of the motor mounts? I really don't understand why BMW made them so flimsy.

[rymerc]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Did you pull on each end of the motor mounts? I really don't understand why BMW made them so flimsy.

I tried to deflect the motor mounts with them still bolted to the engine bracket, they were very stiff. I removed one and clamped one end, then put a socket with extension on the other end, and still could barely deflect it. The replacements I have were very squishy, would easily deflect just in my hands. So, if anyone wants to buy a mystery set of brand new motor mounts for SOME bmw... $20 and they're yours LOL

[chipper1]

I would like to know if there is any proof that these rod bearings will last and not do the same thing over time? I was seen a motor fail with bearing upgrade installed?
anyone got real evidence that this is in fact a real solution?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by chipper1

I would like to know if there is any proof that these rod bearings will last and not do the same thing over time? I was seen a motor fail with bearing upgrade installed?
anyone got real evidence that this is in fact a real solution?

The point of the clevite bearing is you won't ever have to do the job again...at least not for a long time.

But people will need to rack up some miles and post oil sample tests. Or just pull the bearings out for fun. Which isn't very fun.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by chipper1

I would like to know if there is any proof that these rod bearings will last and not do the same thing over time? I was seen a motor fail with bearing upgrade installed?
anyone got real evidence that this is in fact a real solution?

If you've seen a BE Bearing engine fail, please post it

True proof, from a statistical point of view, is almost impossible to generate. However, there is a +40 page thread started by Regular Guy about this issue and it has a lot of information on clearances, etc etc.

If you read it and believe it, which is my case, then you do something about it.

[pbonsalb]

As far as I know, no replacement bearings with substantial mileage have been pulled and inspected yet. The cars just aren't old enough or driven enough. Over a dozen motors with VAC bearings have been opened up again, mostly by Malek at MRF as part of high level track car maintenance, and all have looked great. The most mileage I have read of is 13k when checked.

So there is nothing definitive at this point in time. I changed my rod bearings 3 years and 25k miles ago and don't plan to check the for at least another 3 years. Others have had replacement bearings for much longer but since they are not pulling them to inspect, we don't know how they look.

For now, I consider bearing replacement as maintenance, with the interval based on how yours looked when they came out. There is no certainty how they look just based on age or mileage. The only way to know is to change them. There is at least one car with over 250k miles on original bearings, and there has also been at least one car with failed bearings by 25k miles.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

As far as I know, no replacement bearings with substantial mileage have been pulled and inspected yet. The cars just aren't old enough or driven enough. Over a dozen motors with VAC bearings have been opened up again, mostly by Malek at MRF as part of high level track car maintenance, and all have looked great. The most mileage I have read of is 13k when checked.

So there is nothing definitive at this point in time. I changed my rod bearings 3 years and 25k miles ago and don't plan to check the for at least another 3 years. Others have had replacement bearings for much longer but since they are not pulling them to inspect, we don't know how they look.

For now, I consider bearing replacement as maintenance, with the interval based on how yours looked when they came out. There is no certainty how they look just based on age or mileage. The only way to know is to change them. There is at least one car with over 250k miles on original bearings, and there has also been at least one car with failed bearings by 25k miles.

Agreed. I used to be a good test bed and put 70k miles on a experimental vanos hub on the E46M, but I don't drive the E90 and E92 enough for that.

I'll probably open them again after 3 track seasons just to say hello. I'll post the results in the first page

[bigjae1976]

If my E90 was a track car, I'd open it after a year to check it out. But its a DD as of now so won't be for awhile.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If my E90 was a track car, I'd open it after a year to check it out. But its a DD as of now so won't be for awhile.

Hmm. Maybe I'll open it up after this year. The car's getting 35 days or so