Are we getting what we paid for on carbon fiber products

[spyderco10]

has anyone seen the carbon fiber removed from our roofs? I wonder how thick it is?

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by serven7

Yes its wet lay and yes its in Singapore. It is the only method for cf interior parts, lets face it, its for looks only when it comes to interior.

In regards to the "nothing else" I respectfully disagree. "the truth" is all this rear diffuser, front splitter, boot lid, carbon mirrors etc. is all for looks. You arent improving anything but the looks of the car. So who cares what its made of as long as it looks good. Before you get into the weeds about which type of cf diffuser is lighter, why dont you think about saving the added weight, time and money and just not put it on the car at all?

I agree fitment is the number one thing, my point was some companies are putting out misleading infos to make us "believe" the make dry carbon product but they dont. Dry carbon or not, you do not save much weight on defuser and little with front lip and you are right you gotta pay to play. But I dont like to be ripped off paying $1500 for a wet-layed front lip pretend to me dry carbon, no where near perfection as they claimed. its replicas are less then half of the price, build with better quality and honest about the wet-layed process. I'm sure we all dont like to be cheated on or lie to.

When it comes to interior, you are right the best thing is wraped around OEM parts. I had that done on my for fraction of the price as well.

see pics, first one is THE $1500 front lip spoiler pretend to be dry carbon. 2nd pics is the pinholes of wet-layed carbon under lights.

[The Truth]

and the inside of the front lip spoiler, look very fiber glassy to me.

2nd pics is the all important fitment of rear defuser

[serven7]

Yes, that looks like very poor work and is not pre preg cf.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by serven7

Yes, that looks like very poor work and is not pre preg cf.

not good at all. this is what everyone paid $1500 for and the company claim its process as infusion dry carbon. wet-layed and infusion product are good enough but $1500 for this? just because this company got its name from copying E46 CSL stuff?

[AP Racing - Chris_B]

Originally Posted by The Truth

prepreg dry carbon material are just like wet-layed carbon material, they can be purchased, prices are not night and day difference.

There are a lot more differences than just comparing whether the cloth came on a dry roll and laid up with wet resin versus whether it way pre-impregnated (pre-preg). If an autoclave is not being used (or some other similar technique to get higher than atmospheric pressures), there is very little reason to use pre-preg. If using only vac-bagging, you will get pinholes in pre-preg as well. Well, there are some tricks you can get away with depending on what type of peel ply is used, depending on the part shape.

Why some marketing geniuses call pre-preg "dry carbon", I'll never know. It's not dry as it is soaked in resin, although almost always contains LESS resin than wet lay up. Dry carbon cloth (like fiberglass) is what is used for wet lay up. It usually comes on rolls just like the stuff auntie uses to make a dress. Good grief, let's call it (pre-preg) what it really is!

The reason why honest-to-goodness pre-preg parts are so expensive is that they require autoclave-rated tooling. This tooling is a LOT more expensive than the quick fiberglass "splash and go" tooling that is used for wet lay up and vacuum bagging. Unless the tooling is substantial, it will collapse under autoclave pressure. Plus, you have the cost of the autoclave, including its subtantial running and maintenance costs. I'm not even getting into the differences in the carbon cloth itself (cloth weight, 2x2 twill, 3x3 twill, uni-directional, etc.) or the mind-boggling array of resins currently on the market. If someone is offering cheap "dry carbon" parts -- whetever those are -- they can assuredly NOT be the real article.

All that said, if you are buying interior carbon parts for appearance, then a good wet lay up parts should be good enough. I do prefer exterior pieces in pre-preg (although using a carbon lip spoiler can get expensive with repair and/or replacement costs), but that does drive the cost up. To help reduce costs, some will use one carbon face ply, then back it up with black fiberglass plies. I've even seen chopper gun matting. Either are heavier and less stiff, but can be more affordable.

And, yes, the marketing folks need to be a bit more, shall we dare say, 'transparent' with their offerings!

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B

All that said, if you are buying interior carbon parts for appearance, then a good wet lay up parts should be good enough. I do prefer exterior pieces in pre-preg (although using a carbon lip spoiler can get expensive with repair and/or replacement costs), but that does drive the cost up. To help reduce costs, some will use one carbon face ply, then back it up with black fiberglass plies. I've even seen chopper gun matting. Either are heavier and less stiff, but can be more affordable.

And, yes, the marketing folks need to be a bit more, shall we dare say, 'transparent' with their offerings!

great write up!