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05-03-2024, 04:31 PM | #1 |
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OE brake Upgrade Options
I wanted to see what OE brake upgrade maintains the closets brake bias and caliper area to stock. From I can gather it would be the F10 M5 or M2C brake calipers for the front with adapters and rotors (ECS kit for example)? Are they the same caliper and is the carbon or iron caliper better to get? Also, Is there a corresponding rear upgrade?
I'd potentially like to take the car to casusal track days in the future and my friend had a e92 that would fade the brakes quite bad. He ultimately went with a Brembo kit front and rear but these OE options were not available back then. I'm wondering if I might be able to improve the performance without spending on a full BBK. |
05-06-2024, 10:22 AM | #2 |
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The factory E92 M3 brakes are actually quite adequate for most people with the correct track brake pad. Depending on your prior track/HPDE experience level and general pace, it's probably best to start by keeping your OEM brake setup, putting on a proper set of track pads and seeing how it does, especially since you say, "casual track days." Then, you can decide if you actually need a brake system that sheds heat better.
The biggest issue with the OEM brake system is the rotor design. It isn't great at cooling. Installing a set of front GiroDisc rotors, brass caliper bushings, with good track pads is actually a great little setup. I know you said your friend fades his brakes badly, but you need to know exactly what his brake pad brand/model was, what fluid he was running, what his experience level is, and if the track you plan on driving on is notoriously hard on brakes. Usually, people who are fading their brakes are either driving with traction control/MDM turned ON or using an 'in between' brake pad that is considered more of a high-performance street application (like the Ferodo DS2500 or something). There are a TON of threads on this forum talking about retrofitting other BMW calipers/rotors or other Brembo calipers from other vehicles. There aren't a lot of great options in my opinion and all of them either have issues, or dont provide a significant advantage over the stock setup. Good thread to read on people's experiences with stock brake system. You should be able to see where you might stack up. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2054245 There are also a lot of people running just a front BBK, and there is sufficient evidence that shows the factory rear brake setup will perform well when paired with only a front BBK.
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Last edited by MineralWhiteF80; 05-06-2024 at 10:29 AM.. |
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05-07-2024, 01:37 AM | #3 | |
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The other problem with the stock rotors is their lack of thermal mass and mostly blocked rotor cooling vanes by the aluminum hat design and cast-in steel pins between the aluminum hat and iron rotors. Lack of thermal mass means they can only handle absorbing so much energy in the form of heat and the blocked cooling vanes means the air pumping loss thru the cooling vanes means more heat/temperature remains in the rotors. This is why the retrofit kits with six-p and four-p fixed calipers doesn’t improve brake performance because the weak link are the oem rotors, not the oem one-p sliding calipers. Last edited by M3SQRD; 05-07-2024 at 09:38 PM.. |
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05-07-2024, 01:49 AM | #4 | |
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05-07-2024, 11:42 AM | #5 |
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E9x M3 stock brakes with F/R 370/360 mm rotors and F/R 60/46 mm single-piston sliding brake caliper has a Front brake bias of 63.3%.
E9x M3 2NH brakes with F/R 400/380 mm rotors and F/R (36, 34, 30)/(28, 28) mm piston dias with F 6-p and R 2-p fixed calipers has a Front brake bias of 67.6% A 4.3% forward shift in brake bias is significant. The F caliper area ratio (A2nh/Astock) = 0.93 The R caliper area ratio (A2nh/Astock) = 0.74 This means the e9x M3 brake pedal with 2NH calipers and rotors is going to be very FIRM compared to stock pedal. It’ll be harder to modulate the brake pedal. Edit - f8x blue calipers with F/R 380/370 mm rotors and F/R (40, 40)/44 mm piston dias with F 4-p and R 2-p fixed calipers has a Front bias of 62.8% A 0.5% rearward shift in brake bias which is negligible. The F caliper area ratio (Ablue/Astock) = 0.89 The R caliper area ratio (Ablue/Astock) = 0.93 This means the e9x M3 brake pedal with f8x blue iron calipers and rotors is going to be very FIRM compared to stock pedal. It’ll be harder to modulate the brake pedal. Last edited by M3SQRD; 05-07-2024 at 09:36 PM.. |
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05-07-2024, 11:23 PM | #6 | |
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05-07-2024, 11:48 PM | #7 | |
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05-08-2024, 12:49 AM | #8 |
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This is great information! Is it possible to see for the ECS M5 front caliper kit if it is the same thing? It might be best to stick with stock as suggested after reading this!
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05-11-2024, 01:16 AM | #9 | |
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05-11-2024, 01:37 AM | #10 | |
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And the F10 M5 brakes are being compared to what brake setup? |
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05-11-2024, 11:52 AM | #11 | |
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The f8x CCB front caliper has 8.52 in^2 total piston area vs. e9x M3 front has 8.76 in^2 total piston area so the f10 M5 caliper has 0.97 of the e92 M3 front calipers piston area. The f10 M5 is being paired with a 382 mm rotor vs. the stock e92 370 mm rotor. Ignoring radial pad depths (PRDs) that alter a brake rotors mechanical advantage, the ratio of 382 mm to 370 mm is 1.032. So multiplying piston area ratio by rotor ratio you get 0.97x1.032 = 1.001 which suggests no shift in forward brake bias IF the PRDs result in the same ratio as the rotor ODs. With only a 3% difference in total piston area won’t be noticeable in the brake pedal feel and stroke. Technically, the f10 M5 caliper will result in a very slightly firmer pedal and a very small reduced pedal travel but they’re practically speaking negligible. Last edited by M3SQRD; 05-11-2024 at 01:39 PM.. |
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05-11-2024, 01:27 PM | #12 | |
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05-26-2024, 08:23 AM | #13 |
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I wouldn’t call it a down grade but I down sized from my PFC front and rear BBK and I don’t need such an aggressive system as quality tires do the braking when hitting the track..people don’t understand that still.
But….i went with the Stoptech ST40R Trophy kit 4piston 355 rotor upfront back to OEM size Paragon slotted rear rotor with PFC racing pads. |
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