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      12-26-2017, 10:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
I drive my E90 M3 errday and put the miles on thick. Just my work commute amounts to nearly 20k miles a year. And you best believe we take the M to anything we do outside of work. Put probably a thousand holiday miles on the car this past week doing the family thing.

I have found the car to be extremely reliable (knock on wood). You definitely have to pay the M tax when it comes to repairing and maintaining. At my annual mileage, I'll be paying about $1000 a year in just oil changes for example. I bet if the S65 didn't sound as good as it did, I could probably hear the fuel being pushed through the lines at the rate it drinks. But it isn't miles per gallon, it's smiles per gallon!

Do eet...

Posts like this give me a warm feeling inside lol
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      12-26-2017, 11:00 AM   #24
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That's awesome! Unfortunately I haven't had that type of luck and I personally don't know anyone locally that doesn't have the fear of their N54 335i not starting every morning. I've been there for many years...can't bring myself to go back. My focus is definitely not on the N54 335i though...
We drive our cars year round including winter and park them outside. They always start - will be below zero at night and single digit above zero for the next week here. I’d say over the past 7 years my 08 E90M3 has been slightly more reliable in terms of repairs than our 08 535xit, but I DIY and maintain them well.

To anyone on a budget who needs an inexpensive reliable car, I never recommend BMW and always suggest Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Honda/Acura, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai.

Leasing is usually a bad deal. Buying new is usually a bad deal unless you plan to keep forever. Buying 2-3 years old with extended warranty seems like the best balance. When we bought our CPO 08M3 and 535xit, we had 1-2 years of full warranty and 2 years of CPO warranty, and paid 1/3 less than new. It was the least risk—if they were bad cars we would have sold them when the warranty ran out. Still have them and will probably keep them another 2-3 years.
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      12-26-2017, 11:41 AM   #25
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I don't think maintenance expenses are as bad as people make them out to be for a daily driven car assuming you can do the basics yourself. Oil changes are $125 every 5-7k mi. Brake pads and rotors are $1000, but the rotors last ~60-75k mi. Summer tires get replaced every 20k mi and cost $800-$1200. Spark plugs, trans/diff fluid, coolant, and other general maintenance items aren't super expensive. Honestly the only ownership expense that stands out as much higher than a "regular car" is fuel. The only way you get screwed on maintenance expenses is if you insist on taking your car to the dealership for service. All things taken into consideration and not counting gas, I spend maybe $300-400 more per year maintaining my M3 than I would spend on a regular car. Totally worth it if you ask me.

If you are worried about repair costs, just spend a few thousand on a good aftermarket warranty. I'm a big proponent because mine has paid out over $10k in repairs, but my car was an unlucky outlier and certainly not average. If you go this route, I would recommend not paying more than $1k/yr. I've seen a lot of people post some stupid-high warranty costs that they are unlikely to break even on. Mine was only $500/yr through my credit union, but YMMV.

With that being said, I second the notion that if you are looking for an inexpensive reliable car, stick with the Japanese brands.
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      12-26-2017, 03:49 PM   #26
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If you had younger kids, I would definitely not have an issue with the e90, but if you are just starting out and plan to have a few kids in the next several years, I would make sure you're doing the right thing with regard to size.

I don't know the laws in FL, but friends of mine from MD are required to use rear facing child seats until the kids become a certain size/age (?), but it basically translates into a couple of years with each kid. I have ridden in their mkVI jetta and Q7 with rear facing seats and it's a vastly different experience.

If you will be taking the kid(s) in your car at all, I would see how a rear facing seat (assuming you need to use one) fits in the back of the car and allows for a safe seating of people in the front. I was about 3 mm away from not being able to fit in the front of my buddy's Jetta and although I couldn't completely stretch out in the Q7, it was much more comfortable to be a passenger in.

Frankly, I would lease a disposable car with a big back seat until you're done with having kids. Maybe an SUV as well. Although I don't/won't have kids, I the rear seat space that can get taken up by certain types of car seats is no joke and something I will not soon forget. Once all of the kids are in a small front facing or booster seat, then I'd be interested in a smaller sports sedan.
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      12-26-2017, 06:11 PM   #27
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Skip the kids get whatever car you want and enjoy the cash
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      12-27-2017, 09:17 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
If you had younger kids, I would definitely not have an issue with the e90, but if you are just starting out and plan to have a few kids in the next several years, I would make sure you're doing the right thing with regard to size.

I don't know the laws in FL, but friends of mine from MD are required to use rear facing child seats until the kids become a certain size/age (?), but it basically translates into a couple of years with each kid. I have ridden in their mkVI jetta and Q7 with rear facing seats and it's a vastly different experience.

If you will be taking the kid(s) in your car at all, I would see how a rear facing seat (assuming you need to use one) fits in the back of the car and allows for a safe seating of people in the front. I was about 3 mm away from not being able to fit in the front of my buddy's Jetta and although I couldn't completely stretch out in the Q7, it was much more comfortable to be a passenger in.

Frankly, I would lease a disposable car with a big back seat until you're done with having kids. Maybe an SUV as well. Although I don't/won't have kids, I the rear seat space that can get taken up by certain types of car seats is no joke and something I will not soon forget. Once all of the kids are in a small front facing or booster seat, then I'd be interested in a smaller sports sedan.

Solid advice man...

Honestly - I'm going to test drive an Infiniti Q50 Red Sport today to see if something that large will be "doable". It's essentially 5 Series size.

I'd like to stay away from a truck as my wife is looking at the Q7 or Volvo XC90 (she really wants 3 rows).


Current situation is NO kid...but next year this time...we'll probably have 1 on the way or already keeping us up at night. My lease is up in 10 months but I need to decide fairly soon on what I'm getting.
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      12-27-2017, 12:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
If you had younger kids, I would definitely not have an issue with the e90, but if you are just starting out and plan to have a few kids in the next several years, I would make sure you're doing the right thing with regard to size.

I don't know the laws in FL, but friends of mine from MD are required to use rear facing child seats until the kids become a certain size/age (?), but it basically translates into a couple of years with each kid. I have ridden in their mkVI jetta and Q7 with rear facing seats and it's a vastly different experience.

If you will be taking the kid(s) in your car at all, I would see how a rear facing seat (assuming you need to use one) fits in the back of the car and allows for a safe seating of people in the front. I was about 3 mm away from not being able to fit in the front of my buddy's Jetta and although I couldn't completely stretch out in the Q7, it was much more comfortable to be a passenger in.

Frankly, I would lease a disposable car with a big back seat until you're done with having kids. Maybe an SUV as well. Although I don't/won't have kids, I the rear seat space that can get taken up by certain types of car seats is no joke and something I will not soon forget. Once all of the kids are in a small front facing or booster seat, then I'd be interested in a smaller sports sedan.

Solid advice man...

Honestly - I'm going to test drive an Infiniti Q50 Red Sport today to see if something that large will be "doable". It's essentially 5 Series size.

I'd like to stay away from a truck as my wife is looking at the Q7 or Volvo XC90 (she really wants 3 rows).


Current situation is NO kid...but next year this time...we'll probably have 1 on the way or already keeping us up at night. My lease is up in 10 months but I need to decide fairly soon on what I'm getting.
Honestly you're better off staying away from the m3s. Despite what die hards say the car is a pita with its engineering flaws (bearings and actuators mainly); it's a gamble I personally wouldn't take again. Odds are you end up ok but if you have issues it's an ordeal, think automotive Russian roulette.

There are cars out there that are great that won't give you the headaches.
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      12-27-2017, 04:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Duk996 View Post
Honestly you're better off staying away from the m3s. Despite what die hards say the car is a pita with its engineering flaws (bearings and actuators mainly); it's a gamble I personally wouldn't take again. Odds are you end up ok but if you have issues it's an ordeal, think automotive Russian roulette.

There are cars out there that are great that won't give you the headaches.
You can buy two new throttle actuators for $1200 and throw them in yourself in under 2hrs. Rod bearings will cost about $2k to get replaced. $3200 worth of engineering flaws doesn’t sound like a deal breaker to me. Or just buy a warranty.

Which of the M3’s competitors would you consider not to be a gamble and free of engineering flaws?
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      12-27-2017, 05:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk996 View Post
Honestly you're better off staying away from the m3s. Despite what die hards say the car is a pita with its engineering flaws (bearings and actuators mainly); it's a gamble I personally wouldn't take again. Odds are you end up ok but if you have issues it's an ordeal, think automotive Russian roulette.

There are cars out there that are great that won't give you the headaches.
You can buy two new throttle actuators for $1200 and throw them in yourself in under 2hrs. Rod bearings will cost about $2k to get replaced. $3200 worth of engineering flaws doesn’t sound like a deal breaker to me. Or just buy a warranty.

Which of the M3’s competitors would you consider not to be a gamble and free of engineering flaws?
You're assuming it all goes well for you and you have the "privilege" of throwing an extra 5k at it to be safe. There are plenty of people on this forum who had engines up and let go with little to no warning (myself included, at 46k).

Sure, you can marry the fickle mistress and try to mitigate your risks with all kinds of back up plans but why not just go with something with a not so crappy record? Mr pimps for cheddar has a family and kids, does he really want to deal with battle roy-als with bmw corporate, warranty companies, and mechanics while his car has its bearings replaced (which is ridiculous btw). Friggin thing could throw a rod god knows where on a family trip.

Audi seems to be BMWs direct competitor, I guess check out their cars. As far as I know the M3s are the only cars in this class with this disastrous a flaw; I would look into the Audi V8 cars.

Btw, just giving my 2 cents as mr cheddar asked, not looking to get into any pissing contests on the Internet; see special olympics.
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      12-27-2017, 06:09 PM   #32
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Well if you want E90 M3 you are limited to 2008-2011.

As far as RB's go, it's really hit or miss and I wouldn't say the 2011-2013's are safe. But it seems like most would advise new owners to go ahead and do preventive maintenance and just swap the bearings out so you have peace of mind. Other than that and throttle actuators the E9x M3 is fairly reliable as far as M cars are concerned.

With regard to cars in general, if you are worried about maintenance of the M3 and miss the E9x why not another 335i or even a 328i in E90 form. Those run low 20k range for 50k miles. Payments would be in the 300 a month range. They are great cars and plenty of fun to drive.
Wait what? e9x 328i w/around 50K miles run low $20K? Actually if you look around hard enough you can get e9x m3's with that money maybe with slightly higher miles.
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      12-27-2017, 06:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Blindside_137 View Post
Well if you want E90 M3 you are limited to 2008-2011.

As far as RB's go, it's really hit or miss and I wouldn't say the 2011-2013's are safe. But it seems like most would advise new owners to go ahead and do preventive maintenance and just swap the bearings out so you have peace of mind. Other than that and throttle actuators the E9x M3 is fairly reliable as far as M cars are concerned.

With regard to cars in general, if you are worried about maintenance of the M3 and miss the E9x why not another 335i or even a 328i in E90 form. Those run low 20k range for 50k miles. Payments would be in the 300 a month range. They are great cars and plenty of fun to drive.
Wait what? e9x 328i w/around 50K miles run low $20K? Actually if you look around hard enough you can get e9x m3's with that money maybe with slightly higher miles.
Well shoot if you find an E90 M3 for 20k at 50k miles let me know
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      12-27-2017, 06:28 PM   #34
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Speaking from experience, the car is difficult with rear-facing seats. Once they are forward-facing they work fine.
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      12-27-2017, 09:43 PM   #35
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You're assuming it all goes well for you and you have the "privilege" of throwing an extra 5k at it to be safe. There are plenty of people on this forum who had engines up and let go with little to no warning (myself included, at 46k).

Sure, you can marry the fickle mistress and try to mitigate your risks with all kinds of back up plans but why not just go with something with a not so crappy record? Mr pimps for cheddar has a family and kids, does he really want to deal with battle roy-als with bmw corporate, warranty companies, and mechanics while his car has its bearings replaced (which is ridiculous btw). Friggin thing could throw a rod god knows where on a family trip.

Audi seems to be BMWs direct competitor, I guess check out their cars. As far as I know the M3s are the only cars in this class with this disastrous a flaw; I would look into the Audi V8 cars.

Btw, just giving my 2 cents as mr cheddar asked, not looking to get into any pissing contests on the Internet; see special olympics.
I am not assuming any privledge. My car generated a nearly $10k repair bill at 40k mi within my first week of driving it . I brought it to the dealer who worked directly with the warranty company to get everything resolved. It was an inconvenience because I was stuck driving a 320i loaner but could have happened with any used car. To be clear, my issue had nothing to do with the well known throttle actuators or rod bearings and was so rare that there was no documentation of it previously occurring to anyone on this forum. Outside of this forum, M3s are not known for blowing up regularly. I understand that when you’re the one who’s car blows up it’s easy to lose sight of the objective fact that these cars do not have a high failure rate. I’ve been there too. Even with my own bad luck, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend an E92 M3 to anyone interested in a car in this class.

I wouldn’t trust any comparable Audi to be a less expensive overall ownership experience than an M3. I’m assuming you are referring to the RS4? Those need costly carbon cleaning performed semi-regularly and I’m sure they have other known issues. The carbon cleaning alone would be more expensive than our throttle actuators. The newest one you can get is also 10 years old at this point and quite dated. Not to mention the inferior driving characteristics. Audis are not known for their reliability any more than BMWs are.

Any used sport luxury car, especially from a European brand, is going to have potential costly repairs and is a gamble. The M3 is no exception but it’s known to be an overall reliable platform and the benchmark in most other ways. If you want similar performance for the money with cheaper repair/maintenance, go with a Mustang or something I guess.
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      12-28-2017, 05:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
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I am not assuming any privledge. My car generated a nearly $10k repair bill at 40k mi within my first week of driving it . I brought it to the dealer who worked directly with the warranty company to get everything resolved. It was an inconvenience because I was stuck driving a 320i loaner but could have happened with any used car. To be clear, my issue had nothing to do with the well known throttle actuators or rod bearings and was so rare that there was no documentation of it previously occurring to anyone on this forum. Outside of this forum, M3s are not known for blowing up regularly. I understand that when you’re the one who’s car blows up it’s easy to lose sight of the objective fact that these cars do not have a high failure rate. I’ve been there too. Even with my own bad luck, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend an E92 M3 to anyone interested in a car in this class.

I wouldn’t trust any comparable Audi to be a less expensive overall ownership experience than an M3. I’m assuming you are referring to the RS4? Those need costly carbon cleaning performed semi-regularly and I’m sure they have other known issues. The carbon cleaning alone would be more expensive than our throttle actuators. The newest one you can get is also 10 years old at this point and quite dated. Not to mention the inferior driving characteristics. Audis are not known for their reliability any more than BMWs are.

Any used sport luxury car, especially from a European brand, is going to have potential costly repairs and is a gamble. The M3 is no exception but it’s known to be an overall reliable platform and the benchmark in most other ways. If you want similar performance for the money with cheaper repair/maintenance, go with a Mustang or something I guess.
My M3 blew up at 49K, and while something I didn’t expect, I had just supercharged it adding a bunch of stress - and I was at the race track thrashing it. My first Audi was a brand new Audi TT - inside of a few months it was on a flatbed from failed coils. My brand new Evo had issues in under 6 months that needed dealer work, and my used mk1 MX5 transmission blew up at 70K (a known issue).

All cars have their issues.. the M3 bearing issue is probably one of the few that causes catastrophic failure, but I agree with Iyzmi that I think we see a lopsided view on the forum as people here either come because they had a failure, or stress their cars more with upgrades. Before I bought mine I had never heard of this issue, and if such an iconic performance car really did have high failure rates you’d be sure that motoring journalists would bring it up all the time.

As far as using a performance car for kids... I brought up 3 kids with my Evo (from age zero), and had no issues with seats or space. I highly recommend looking at Diono Radian RXT seats for kids. They will last from age zero to age 11 (5 to 120lbs), can fit three abreast in a compact (my Evo is smaller in the back than my M3), and are safer than almost any other seat out there. As a bonus they are aircraft approved too. They can be used rear facing or front facing and convert to a booster when your kid is old enough.. and they are only $300 each.

https://us.diono.com/product/radian-rxt/

My motto is never compromise on the performance of the car - we’ve never had an SUV or minivan and never intend to

Thanks!

S.
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      12-28-2017, 09:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk996 View Post
You're assuming it all goes well for you and you have the "privilege" of throwing an extra 5k at it to be safe. There are plenty of people on this forum who had engines up and let go with little to no warning (myself included, at 46k).

Sure, you can marry the fickle mistress and try to mitigate your risks with all kinds of back up plans but why not just go with something with a not so crappy record? Mr pimps for cheddar has a family and kids, does he really want to deal with battle roy-als with bmw corporate, warranty companies, and mechanics while his car has its bearings replaced (which is ridiculous btw). Friggin thing could throw a rod god knows where on a family trip.

Audi seems to be BMWs direct competitor, I guess check out their cars. As far as I know the M3s are the only cars in this class with this disastrous a flaw; I would look into the Audi V8 cars.

Btw, just giving my 2 cents as mr cheddar asked, not looking to get into any pissing contests on the Internet; see special olympics.

My internal battle exactly! I'm fortunate enough to be able to survive a $5k fix...but do I really want to do that with a car? Absolutely not!

My E92 335i went out of warranty and in 2 months - I had Coil Packs ($1,600) and Fuel Injectors ($2,600) go out plus 2 tow trips. Car was running absolutely blissful and had everything replaced under warranty prior to it ending (AC Compressor, Condenser, Battery, Engine Carbon Cleaning, etc). Fucking sucked to fork over $4k in repairs and have my car sit at a dealership twice in 3 weeks. Brutal but more frustrating than anything else!


Personally - I don't know if the reward is worth the potential headache. Struggle I'm having to decide on now because I can't think of anything as rewarding of a car as this...



Quote:
Originally Posted by romemmy View Post
My M3 blew up at 49K, and while something I didn’t expect, I had just supercharged it adding a bunch of stress - and I was at the race track thrashing it. My first Audi was a brand new Audi TT - inside of a few months it was on a flatbed from failed coils. My brand new Evo had issues in under 6 months that needed dealer work, and my used mk1 MX5 transmission blew up at 70K (a known issue).

All cars have their issues.. the M3 bearing issue is probably one of the few that causes catastrophic failure, but I agree with Iyzmi that I think we see a lopsided view on the forum as people here either come because they had a failure, or stress their cars more with upgrades. Before I bought mine I had never heard of this issue, and if such an iconic performance car really did have high failure rates you’d be sure that motoring journalists would bring it up all the time.

As far as using a performance car for kids... I brought up 3 kids with my Evo (from age zero), and had no issues with seats or space. I highly recommend looking at Diono Radian RXT seats for kids. They will last from age zero to age 11 (5 to 120lbs), can fit three abreast in a compact (my Evo is smaller in the back than my M3), and are safer than almost any other seat out there. As a bonus they are aircraft approved too. They can be used rear facing or front facing and convert to a booster when your kid is old enough.. and they are only $300 each.

https://us.diono.com/product/radian-rxt/

My motto is never compromise on the performance of the car - we’ve never had an SUV or minivan and never intend to

Thanks!

S.

Awesome man! Greatly appreciate the insight and you're right...once an issue arises - it slowly becomes a plague throughout the community.

I'm actually thinking - if I can get a warranty with the car...I'll consider it immediately. So I'll be doing some digging into the topic on my end!
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      12-28-2017, 10:21 AM   #38
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I would not want to spend all that money either. The better S55 coil packs are a few hundred dollars and I changed them myself in a few hours on my 08 535xit. Most BMW are expensive to maintain out of warranty if you use a dealer.
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      12-28-2017, 10:23 AM   #39
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      12-28-2017, 07:52 PM   #40
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Well shoot if you find an E90 M3 for 20k at 50k miles let me know
I can find you e9x 328i with 50-60K miles for $11K-$13K all day long so low $20K's sounded weird. And for e9x m3's ones again if you look around hard enough you definitely can find 2008-2009 with 70-80K miles within low $20K. Btw I rather pay $20K for 2008 m3 with 90K miles instead of paying $17K for 2010 328i with 40K bro. (Previous cars 328,335 here)
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      12-28-2017, 07:58 PM   #41
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Well shoot if you find an E90 M3 for 20k at 50k miles let me know
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...431521472.html This is right after I read your reply I searched for an half minutes and found 2008 m3 with 60K miles offer $22K (low 20's) and its yours
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      12-28-2017, 07:59 PM   #42
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You should buy my E90 M3. You want a well maintained car above all others.
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      12-28-2017, 08:02 PM   #43
Flying Ace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP View Post
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...431521472.html This is right after I read your reply I searched for an half minutes and found 2008 m3 with 60K miles offer $22K (low 20's) and its yours
E93 <> E90

Convertibles have always consistently sold at a discount against coupes/sedans across all M cars. Does matter if it was a E63/4, E90/E92/E93, F12/13/06, E46, etc.


This exact same car would be worth at least $25-7k at the retail pricing level for a E92 or E90

Last edited by Flying Ace; 12-28-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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      12-28-2017, 08:20 PM   #44
TrAcK TRaP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
E93 <> E90

Convertibles have always consistently sold at a discount against coupes/sedans across all M cars. Does matter if it was a E63/4, E90/E92/E93, F12/13/06, E46, etc.


This exact same car would be worth at least $25-7k at the retail pricing level for a E92 or E90
I got a screaming deal for mine then. But E9x's 328's are not in low $20K price range. And you still can find e90 or e92 M for low or mid 20K.
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