E92 M3 vs E63 M6

[iwant335i]

It will be a second car in the garage, the prices are similar, I like the looks of the M6 better but M3 could be less problematic. Both are N/A which is why I want one of these. I understand the maintenance cost and I can afford it but the question is, is the difference between maintaining these twp are huge or comparable. Keep in mind this car will stay with me for good and I am not going to sell it. I want to take care of it and keep it in the family.

I want to know your opinion. Which one should I go with and why?

[tdott]

IMO an M6 6 Speed manual would be a more special car.

Probably a few more issues than an E9x. You have the same rb, ta related issues, plus vanos issues on the s85. Parts would be slightly harder to find and not as much aftermarket support, but I'd still like to own one.

[SYT_Shadow]

If you're thinking about the V10 you need to get 2008+. Before that it's high risk.

Both will need their rod bearings replaced.
Both will eventually need TAs replaced although that isn't a big deal

What does the V10 have that breaks that the V8 does not?
-SMG3. I'd get a 6MT to not deal with those issues
-High pressure vanos system. The pump is in the oil sump and should be checked out when you do the rod bearings

[Richbot]

The M6 also has a great deal more standard luxo-kit, many had soft-close doors, active seats, yada. More crap to break if it's a long-term car. Being able to afford it and being willing to put up with it are two different things.

I love M6's though. They're awesome. But faced with the same choice of buying what I hoped would be a forever-car nearly 9! years ago, I narrowed my M-car hunt to everything-but-the-V10's despite my love for the cars, mainly because of the standard equipment levels and my previous experience with high-spec BMW ancillary systems longevity (or extreme poverty of same). Lucky for me, I came across my E90M and threw down when I could.

They are not-great-handling cars IMO. They share the E60M's I STIFFENED UP THE SUSPENSION AND STEERING AND SHIFTING ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?! "sporty" dynamics and are obviously very fast up top, but are ~250lb heavier than the E92, much of it on the nose, with a bigger tire stagger and they always feel like they have a high CG to me. Handling wise on that platform, give me an E60 535. Then again, if you're keeping it forever, that's a lot of time to figure out the handling issues and make the car what it always should have been for enthusiasts, because that engine is worth a lot of headache, but they're more one-dimensional cars from a performance standpoint I think. upside is, if you want something that is a little comfier and GT, the M6 is a better GT car UNTIL YOU GO MORE THAN 150 MILEs because the gas light will come on. But for those 150 mile trips, magic.

I'm one of the nuts who likes SMG generally, and especially SMGIII because it suits the sort of "he seems cool or maybe he's an axe murderer" power delivery of the V10, but if you're getting an automatic, obviously the DCT/S65 was (and still is to this day) one of the best engine/trans combos ever sold by anyone, ever

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by tdott

IMO an M6 6 Speed manual would be a more special car.

Probably a few more issues than an E9x. You have the same rb, ta related issues, plus vanos issues on the s85. Parts would be slightly harder to find and not as much aftermarket support, but I'd still like to own one.

Really? I tought V10 has more issues then the V8 from the M3...

I'm thinking SMG only. Manual is pointless to me on the streets and I like that bugger vmax with auto. I would go manual only in a track car.

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you're thinking about the V10 you need to get 2008+. Before that it's high risk.

Both will need their rod bearings replaced.
Both will eventually need TAs replaced although that isn't a big deal

What does the V10 have that breaks that the V8 does not?
-SMG3. I'd get a 6MT to not deal with those issues
-High pressure vanos system. The pump is in the oil sump and should be checked out when you do the rod bearings

Thank. Yes I am aiming at 2010 with low mileage. I want to pay more in the first place but know what's going on with the car. Repair everything and then control the maintenance. Like I said it's staying with me for good so that's gonna be my baby.

I am aware of the rod bearings but they are not that bad around 2 - 2.5k in repair. I am doing valve sealers on my 550i now and that's 2.7k.

[SYT_Shadow]

2010 is the best version of the V10

It is a very impressive car. A friend has the M5 6MT V10 from 2009 and I just love it

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by Richbot

The M6 also has a great deal more standard luxo-kit, many had soft-close doors, active seats, yada

More crap to break if it's a long-term car.

I love M6's though. They're awesome. But faced with the same choice nearly 9! years ago, I narrowed my hunt to everything-but-the-V10's despite my love for the cars, mainly because of the standard equipment levels and my previous experience with high-spec BMW ancillary systems longevity (or extreme poverty of same). Lucky for me, I came across my E90M and threw down when I could.

They are not-great-handling cars IMO. They share the E60M's I STIFFENED UP THE SUSPENSION AND STEERING AND SHIFTING ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?! "sporty" dynamics, but are ~250lb heavier much of it on the nose, with a bigger tire stagger and they always feel like they have very high CG's to me. Handling wise on that platform, give me an E60 535.

Well thing can brake and they probably will after time but you just repair it. All the more that it's staying with me.

Altough I am aware of the weight and how could that influence the ride I think the M6 is something more than that. You know with the last N/A V10, the sound, the looks which are still great imho, I think the car is really special.

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

2010 is the best version of the V10

It is a very impressive car. A friend has the M5 6MT V10 from 2009 and I just love it

Do you know the main things they changed that makes it better?

[Richbot]

They are special cars no doubt. I think the E92 is just as special and also just a better car. I think specialness in second cars tends to wear off and you're left with a car and you either love it as a car or you sell it

[iwant335i]

Not that I am not a fan of the E92 and the V8 engine, I dreamed about it back in the days, when I tought of numbers she can do, you know modding etc for street racing but now I think I am getting more mature and the big luxury coupe M6 with a V10 suits me.

I am more concentrating pure driving pleasure than killing times, dyno's, meth, racing, being first, being the best etc. Although you can throw a supercharger on an M6 and I think it could be quite a beast and it's not so expensive to do it with ESS.

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by Richbot

They are special cars no doubt. I think the E92 is just as special and also just a better car. I think specialness in second cars tends to wear off and you're left with a car and you either love it as a car or you sell it

Oh I love BMW's. That's why I am not selling my 550i but getting another one (meaning the M6 or M3). If I will get a third bimmer it will also stay. I am planning to sort of collecting them. They will bring me back memories of my life's periods. That's my goal and I like that idea. It makes me happy.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by iwant335i

Do you know the main things they changed that makes it better?

This is posted somewhere, but off the top of my head:

Pre 2008 is to be avoided.

Improvements by year:
2008: got the second oil drain plug, improved vanos oil line to engine (recalled on older engines)
2009: got bigger, stronger bolts and oil squirters

[dparm]

The M6 is going to be more expensive to maintain from a powertrain perspective. The S65 motor is a derivative of the S85 and they fixed several known issues: changed to low-pressure VANOS and dumped the sketchy SMG. Also worth noting that it has two more cylinders so that just means there's more stuff to replace each time it needs maintenance.

As someone else mentioned, it will be more expensive to maintain from an "equipment" perspective. It has more [at the time] high-end features like the active seats. If those fail, I don't want to think about the cost. Maybe it's one of those things you'd just leave broken. That just screams money pit.

Frankly, I think the V10 engine is awesome and the last of its kind but the transmission choices both suck. The SMG just isn't that smooth and is known for being terribly unreliable. The 6MT was a carryover from the E39 M5 so the gearing is totally wrong (you fall out of the powerband when shifting).

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you're thinking about the V10 you need to get 2008+. Before that it's high risk.

Both will need their rod bearings replaced.
Both will eventually need TAs replaced although that isn't a big deal

What does the V10 have that breaks that the V8 does not?
-SMG3. I'd get a 6MT to not deal with those issues
-High pressure vanos system. The pump is in the oil sump and should be checked out when you do the rod bearings

What he said!

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by dparm

The M6 is going to be more expensive to maintain from a powertrain perspective. The S65 motor is a derivative of the S85 and they fixed several known issues: changed to low-pressure VANOS and dumped the sketchy SMG. Also worth noting that it has two more cylinders so that just means there's more stuff to replace each time it needs maintenance.

As someone else mentioned, it will be more expensive to maintain from an "equipment" perspective. It has more [at the time] high-end features like the active seats. If those fail, I don't want to think about the cost. Maybe it's one of those things you'd just leave broken. That just screams money pit.

Frankly, I think the V10 engine is awesome and the last of its kind but the transmission choices both suck. The SMG just isn't that smooth and is known for being terribly unreliable. The 6MT was a carryover from the E39 M5 so the gearing is totally wrong (you fall out of the powerband when shifting).

Thanks 🤟

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This is posted somewhere, but off the top of my head:

Pre 2008 is to be avoided.

Improvements by year:
2008: got the second oil drain plug, improved vanos oil line to engine (recalled on older engines)
2009: got bigger, stronger bolts and oil squirters

Thanks 🤟

[kyrix1st]

E63 M6 I test drove just gave me thrills every time I put down the throttle.
The car felt lighter than E92, but probably because it had KW V3 installed.

Shame that 6MT is not available here. God it's an epic car...

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

E63 M6 I test drove just gave me thrills every time I put down the throttle.
The car felt lighter than E92, but probably because it had KW V3 installed.

Shame that 6MT is not available here. God it's an epic car...

Sweet. So there is a big difference between stock and kw suspension? Does the KW adapt with EDC?

[spazzyfry123]

I have a friend that had an SMG M6 (don't remember the year). Absolutely epic. He did end up offloading the car because the car just had "too much stuff." It seems like every time he hopped in the thing, one of the fancy electronic bits went wrong (he had the displeasure of losing the function of his active seats).

So naturally he replaced it with an older Ferrari (because that's cheaper to maintain, right?)

We know the S65 is the baby brother of the S85. People complain of reliability of the S85 (even though I think the reliability should be more focused on the creature features) and point the same sized finger at the S65 because of blood relation. I've owned a lot of different cars. I can't find a better, more exotic (oh listen to that thing scream up top) ride for the cash that's, wait for it........RELIABLE. Albeit, I did change my rod bearings out of internet fear. But this thing just doesn't have problems.

As a side note, I did see an early M6 6MT sell on BaT recently. $30k? https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-bmw-m6-11/

[iwant335i]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I have a friend that had an SMG M6 (don't remember the year). Absolutely epic. He did end up offloading the car because the car just had "too much stuff." It seems like every time he hopped in the thing, one of the fancy electronic bits went wrong (he had the displeasure of losing the function of his active seats).

So naturally he replaced it with an older Ferrari (because that's cheaper to maintain, right?)

We know the S65 is the baby brother of the S85. People complain of reliability of the S85 (even though I think the reliability should be more focused on the creature features) and point the same sized finger at the S65 because of blood relation. I've owned a lot of different cars. I can't find a better, more exotic (oh listen to that thing scream up top) ride for the cash that's, wait for it........RELIABLE. Albeit, I did change my rod bearings out of internet fear. But this thing just doesn't have problems.

As a side note, I did see an early M6 6MT sell on BaT recently. $30k? https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-bmw-m6-11/

Yep. I am aiming at 25-30k. I mean you can find ones for 20k even lower but I am afraid of the history of a car like that. I am looking for first maximum second owner.

[pbonsalb]

It’s a lot of car cheap because you don’t know what maintenance or repair expense you might incur. As long as you are prepared, go for it. I would be happy with an M5 or M6.