S65 engine sabotaged!!!!

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by LuckiSevens

Totally agree I reckon he could still open his front door with that key

Thanks for your lovely accusation. It's fun to troll yeah? Hate to see shit happen to you and some schmuck get on your thread accusing you of being a fraud. How would you feel then?

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by dparm

It doesn't have to go through the oil galleries. Look at the photos posted in this thread, it's an almost straight shot down the oil cap into the pan.

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

[LuckiSevens]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

You might be right there... whoever it is needs beheading for sure

[jiggz]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

Maybe user 'deansbimmer' will provide his insight - based on his posts on this forum, he knows these motors.

Sorry for your troubles though, this would be heart breaking.

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

Your best bet is ask an S65 engine builder such as deansbimmer, malek and etc on this forum. You should also ask the Dealer who took out the engine and compare to what deansbimmer/malek have to say.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by jiggz

Maybe user 'deansbimmer' will provide his insight - based on his posts on this forum, he knows these motors.

Sorry for your troubles though, this would be heart breaking.

Key insight, pun intended

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by jiggz

Maybe user 'deansbimmer' will provide his insight - based on his posts on this forum, he knows these motors.

Sorry for your troubles though, this would be heart breaking.

Just reached out to him and Malek. Thank you for the tip.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Your best bet is ask an S65 engine builder such as deansbimmer, malek and etc on this forum. You should also ask the Dealer who took out the engine and compare to what deansbimmer/malek have to say.

Reached out to Malek as well. Thanks for the tip!

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

HOLY 5H1T !!! WOW !!!

My exact response as soon as I saw that key-wrapper clog! And I don't even have sunglasses on! W
T
F
!!!???

Honestly this is the craziest thing I've seen in years. And I've seen some sh**

[kimiraikkonen]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

OP:

1) A Fisherman's Friend plastic wrapper (or wax paper wrapper) is not going to protect a metal key from getting bent or thrashed around in the engine. If this were true, then we should all be wrapping our Rod Bearings in Fisherman's Friend wrappers.

2) If I were you and this happened, the logical thing would be to go the last place that worked on your car (hopefully this was a BMW dealer) and ask them why there is a plastic wrapper and key in your engine. Make them do the hw and explain why this is NOT the case. So have them explain why a key dropped from the oil filler would not wind up at the bottom...etc. If you really did not sabotage the car yourself, then I think it's fair to make a legitimate accusation to the shop(s) that last worked on your car.

3) If you are still stubborn and trying to figure out the key drop....then you have the engine still at the dealer. Put a couple temp screws on the oil pan and button it back up. Have them put the engine on the engine stand and rotate it right side up. Get your key and drop it down the hole and see where it ends up.

But I think the reason why you are finding people either skeptical or poking at your responses is because things just aren't adding up. Seems like we learn more interesting facts as you continuing weaving this tale.

- So now today we learn that your car was parked at the Dealer for over a month outside?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=70

- Why was it at the Dealer for a month? Was it to diagnose a ticking noise on your car? Either way, if you car was at the Dealer for a month, then duh....why aren't you pursuing Path #2 above as the immediate course of action.

- You engine internals, key, wrapper, aren't consistent with oil starvation. From the pics, I see no scoring on any of the key components

- This thread reminds me of the ones where people are asking whether "Rod Bearings will fail" and hoping that someone comes back with the answer they hear (which is no, they will never fail). For whatever reason, you seem steadfast that someone will come back and say yes, the key will magically work its way to the bottom of the pan and is the cause of your engine failure

- And please, stop waving the "R" flag around. Nobody here cares where you or anyone is from. People here probably care more and debate more on whether you like MT vs. DCT, which exhaust is best, which aftermarket tune is better, etc.

- Finally, I am going to go out on a limb and say that your car isn't in the Middle East and in fact is sitting in Toronto somewhere. You seem to be gathering courage to make a claim to BMW and want to hear validation that this is a possible scenario.

P.S. I hope you realize too that there was a logenze that probably went down your oil filler as well. If someone did sabotage your car, chances are they probably put the logenze down as well.

[InnerBlueSkies]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

So I'm hearing two stories. One that says if a key is dropped down the oil intake it goes into the cam gears. The other story is it drops straight into the oil pan. Is anyone here a BMW mechanic or knows how this engine is designed? If it hit the cam gears then when my brother would have started it it would have damaged the key, right? And would the damage to the key be less or avoided if it were encapsulated by that wrapper? This is what leads me to believe whoever put the wrapper around or with the key was being smart and scientific about this. The wrapper is an effective blocker of oil. The key adds weight to the wrapper so it drops. Just thinking out loud. Thoughts, anyone?

The mechanic who performed the tear-down is going to know 95% more than anyone on these boards.

[Biginboca]

The OP titled the thread “Sabotaged” so he obviously knew from go it was foul play. He’s also very defensive for someone looking for help (what help he expects to find here I have no idea because like others said he really should be speaking with his mechanics to get the facts).

I’ll bet $1 he knows exactly who did this. Which of us has an enemy so angry at us and we don’t know?

I’m glad to see the pics just out of curiosity... but OP your poor attitude and sketchiness will likely discourage anyone from being helpful. (Assuming they could be)

[kimiraikkonen]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

The OP titled the thread “Sabotaged” so he obviously knew from go it was foul play. He’s also very defensive for someone looking for help (what help he expects to find here I have no idea because like others said he really should be speaking with his mechanics to get the facts).

I’ll bet $1 he knows exactly who did this. Which of us has an enemy so angry at us and we don’t know?

I’m glad to see the pics just out of curiosity... but OP your poor attitude and sketchiness will likely discourage anyone from being helpful. (Assuming they could be)

Well said and objectively spot on Biginboca.

[m3jala]

If it's what we're saying that's pretty pathetic. I'll say that much.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by InnerBlueSkies

The mechanic who performed the tear-down is going to know 95% more than anyone on these boards.

You're right. Problem is I don't trust the dealership anymore after seeing this because this car was handled 100% of the time at the dealership. so that mechanic who tore it down works for them. And I'm damn straight lawyering up at the moment. Dealership is gonna get a piece of my wrath even if I have to spend as much as a new engine on legal fees

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

The OP titled the thread "Sabotaged" so he obviously knew from go it was foul play. He's also very defensive for someone looking for help (what help he expects to find here I have no idea because like others said he really should be speaking with his mechanics to get the facts).

I'll bet $1 he knows exactly who did this. Which of us has an enemy so angry at us and we don't know?

I'm glad to see the pics just out of curiosity... but OP your poor attitude and sketchiness will likely discourage anyone from being helpful. (Assuming they could be)

Sabotaged because I found an effin key and wrapper Sherlock. Do I have enemies? Yeah an ex girlfriend 7 years ago who was devastated. Maybe she woke up after all these years and decided to take a course in auto repair. You guys are hella smart

[Siajoon]

Originally Posted by kimiraikkonen

OP:

1) A Fisherman's Friend plastic wrapper (or wax paper wrapper) is not going to protect a metal key from getting bent or thrashed around in the engine. If this were true, then we should all be wrapping our Rod Bearings in Fisherman's Friend wrappers.

2) If I were you and this happened, the logical thing would be to go the last place that worked on your car (hopefully this was a BMW dealer) and ask them why there is a plastic wrapper and key in your engine. Make them do the hw and explain why this is NOT the case. So have them explain why a key dropped from the oil filler would not wind up at the bottom...etc. If you really did not sabotage the car yourself, then I think it's fair to make a legitimate accusation to the shop(s) that last worked on your car.

3) If you are still stubborn and trying to figure out the key drop....then you have the engine still at the dealer. Put a couple temp screws on the oil pan and button it back up. Have them put the engine on the engine stand and rotate it right side up. Get your key and drop it down the hole and see where it ends up.

But I think the reason why you are finding people either skeptical or poking at your responses is because things just aren't adding up. Seems like we learn more interesting facts as you continuing weaving this tale.

- So now today we learn that your car was parked at the Dealer for over a month outside?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...8;postcount=70

- Why was it at the Dealer for a month? Was it to diagnose a ticking noise on your car? Either way, if you car was at the Dealer for a month, then duh....why aren't you pursuing Path #2 above as the immediate course of action.

- You engine internals, key, wrapper, aren't consistent with oil starvation. From the pics, I see no scoring on any of the key components

- This thread reminds me of the ones where people are asking whether "Rod Bearings will fail" and hoping that someone comes back with the answer they hear (which is no, they will never fail). For whatever reason, you seem steadfast that someone will come back and say yes, the key will magically work its way to the bottom of the pan and is the cause of your engine failure

- And please, stop waving the "R" flag around. Nobody here cares where you or anyone is from. People here probably care more and debate more on whether you like MT vs. DCT, which exhaust is best, which aftermarket tune is better, etc.

- Finally, I am going to go out on a limb and say that your car isn't in the Middle East and in fact is sitting in Toronto somewhere. You seem to be gathering courage to make a claim to BMW and want to hear validation that this is a possible scenario.

P.S. I hope you realize too that there was a logenze that probably went down your oil filler as well. If someone did sabotage your car, chances are they probably put the logenze down as well.

Nail on the coffin. Mods should just lock this thread as it's getting out of hand and quite frankly dumb to say the least.

Last place I would EVER go if I saw this shit would be a forum. I'd be hunting down the culprit. Period. The end.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by kimiraikkonen

OP:

1) A Fisherman's Friend plastic wrapper (or wax paper wrapper) is not going to protect a metal key from getting bent or thrashed around in the engine. If this were true, then we should all be wrapping our Rod Bearings in Fisherman's Friend wrappers.

2) If I were you and this happened, the logical thing would be to go the last place that worked on your car (hopefully this was a BMW dealer) and ask them why there is a plastic wrapper and key in your engine. Make them do the hw and explain why this is NOT the case. So have them explain why a key dropped from the oil filler would not wind up at the bottom...etc. If you really did not sabotage the car yourself, then I think it's fair to make a legitimate accusation to the shop(s) that last worked on your car.

3) If you are still stubborn and trying to figure out the key drop....then you have the engine still at the dealer. Put a couple temp screws on the oil pan and button it back up. Have them put the engine on the engine stand and rotate it right side up. Get your key and drop it down the hole and see where it ends up.

But I think the reason why you are finding people either skeptical or poking at your responses is because things just aren't adding up. Seems like we learn more interesting facts as you continuing weaving this tale.

- So now today we learn that your car was parked at the Dealer for over a month outside?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...8;postcount=70

- Why was it at the Dealer for a month? Was it to diagnose a ticking noise on your car? Either way, if you car was at the Dealer for a month, then duh....why aren't you pursuing Path #2 above as the immediate course of action.

- You engine internals, key, wrapper, aren't consistent with oil starvation. From the pics, I see no scoring on any of the key components

- This thread reminds me of the ones where people are asking whether "Rod Bearings will fail" and hoping that someone comes back with the answer they hear (which is no, they will never fail). For whatever reason, you seem steadfast that someone will come back and say yes, the key will magically work its way to the bottom of the pan and is the cause of your engine failure

- And please, stop waving the "R" flag around. Nobody here cares where you or anyone is from. People here probably care more and debate more on whether you like MT vs. DCT, which exhaust is best, which aftermarket tune is better, etc.

- Finally, I am going to go out on a limb and say that your car isn't in the Middle East and in fact is sitting in Toronto somewhere. You seem to be gathering courage to make a claim to BMW and want to hear validation that this is a possible scenario.

P.S. I hope you realize too that there was a logenze that probably went down your oil filler as well. If someone did sabotage your car, chances are they probably put the logenze down as well.

While I thank you for your lengthy post - I'm sure you have better things to do, and for that I'm appreciative - your logic in every post points to the possibility that I'm a fraud and I'm trying to get some weird scenario verified/vetted through this forum so I can successfully blame this on someone else. Weird logic but let's go with it. Let's bang out your points slowly so you get it.

But first let me say that I didn't get on this forum and post about my loss to explain to everyone where my car is or launch an investigation on who the perpetrator could be (me, according to you). I posted to seek advice about how a foreign object could find its way to what I saw from the pics sent to me by my brother as he was summoned into the dealership to see what they uncovered. I just want advice on what people here know about engines and inner workings to speculate on whether the key can be dropped through the oil intake by someone with access to my car keys, or if it's impossible, leading me to the other option that someone more skilled with greater access to the vehicle would necessarily have to perform this (i.e. someone who lifted the car, did an oil change, or whatever). That's all I want to get to the bottom of.

Instead we got into how barbaric middle easterners are, how I'm a rich bastard (middle eastern specifically) who flies cars to and from countries, how my brother sabotaged it, how I'm trying to hide a rod bearing issue by sabotaging my own car, and so on. Very entertaining but highly degenerative group here.

But I digress. Here goes.

1. The wrapper won't protect the key. Fair enough. I thought maybe initially the perpetrator wanted to leverage nylon encapsulation to prevent the key from shattering and to give the driver some leeway in screwing the engine up later and not as he drove it out of the dealership immediately. Possible or not, it was just a thought because one has to question why the wrapper was there and not just a key. Why wasn't it a simple bolt or nut? Why a key and wrapper. Still don't have a hypothesis. But thanks.

2. Yes I'm working on getting an explanation and report from the dealership. But as you can imagine, if they suspect one of their guys did it, I don't see why they'd be helpful. If anything, they're probably lawyering up for a lawsuit. So whatever they come up with, I wouldn't bank on an "I'm sorry we did it, here's a new engine, buddy". I think you got it, right? It's inconsequential what the F they say at this point, but I'll wait for that report which surely won't be anything more than oh yeah we found a key and wrapper and this damaged your engine. Full stop.

3. Good point. Let's re-run the scenario for funzies, yeah? I just hope they won't charge me for labor to put the engine back together and run these experiments. But it's a great idea. Best one so far. But something tells me investigative experimentation just isn't their bag given the backlog of cars they're working on. But I'll give it a shot.

Why was the car at the dealer for a month? Because the engine stalled when my brother drove it a month ago, they towed it to the dealership, and they held it hostage for us to pay up 2k so they can open the engine up and see what's wrong.

Car's not in Toronto, but thanks for assuming I'm a liar.

PS, thanks for calling me stubborn. And oh, thanks for calling me a story weaver. Truth is, oil changes, tire changes, whatever - they were all done at the dealership and there's no way my brother was eyes on the whole time. You walk into a dealership expecting they have your back and some element of trust. So my car has been with them since the engine stalled for some time before my brother and I decided to send the money over to open the engine up. Big whup. It was there for a few days when they did the oil change too. Shit like this happens when you service a car; i.e. you leave the car in good hands supposedly, go make yourself a coffee, take a shuttle to work, come back later, or whatever.

Again, I'm not Sherlocking the shit out of this; I just want to know how this engine is designed, what are the scenarios that could lead to a foreign object deposit (assuming they didn't plant it there after opening it up).

[MaximusB]

You should ask your brother to get the car’s full service history from the dealer. A few theories: (wild guesses)

One - the dealer may have stripped the drain plug at one point during a routine oil change (it happens) and they went ahead and replaced the oil pan. During the replacement the key and wrapper fell into pan and the tech somehow missed it. Replacing the pan is usually not a one day job. So the pan could have been left uncovered overnight.

Two - In rare case people complaint about knocking sound from the engine and turns out to be the bed plate in the oil pan not torqued to spec. Have you experienced this on your car? If so, the dealer would have take out the oil pan for the work.

Three - key and wrapper fell in from the top during oil change. Again, personally I doubt this because there are no wear on the key as one might expect to see.

Either way, gather all the info that you can from the dealer. Get the full service history, work orders etc.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by Siajoon

Nail on the coffin. Mods should just lock this thread as it's getting out of hand and quite frankly dumb to say the least.

Last place I would EVER go if I saw this shit would be a forum. I'd be hunting down the culprit. Period. The end.

Hunting down the culprit is not possible. What is possible is to use the knowledge perhaps of some mechanics or ex-mechanics on this forum to help eliminate certain possibilities (such as could the key be deposited from the oil filler, or not) in order to help me assess my case against the dealership. Ultimately, a foreign object was found in my engine and wrecked a $25,000 (at least) engine. Either I put it, my brother did, an enemy of mine perhaps, someone at the BMW factory during assembly, or someone at the dealership when it was serviced. Evidence suggests the foreign object would not withstand 20,000 kms so let's rule out the factory. My brother, myself, or an enemy on the street would only be able to drop it from the oil filler under the hood, right? So if that is ruled out, and because this car was serviced at the dealership every single time, then I can say with confidence that some mofo at the dealership did it and go after them with confidence. Simple. it's not conclusive, because ultimately the dealership can suggest that I took it to another mechanic in some ghetto and did it. But at least I can sleep at night knowing who to go after.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

You should ask your brother to get the car’s full service history from the dealer. A few theories: (wild guesses)

One - the dealer may have stripped the drain plug at one point during a routine oil change (it happens) and they went ahead and replaced the oil pan. During the replacement the key and wrapper fell into pan and the tech somehow missed it. Replacing the pan is usually not a one day job. So the pan could have been left uncovered overnight.

Two - In rare case people complaint about knocking sound from the engine and turns out to be the bed plate in the oil pan not torqued to spec. Have you experienced this on your car? If so, the dealer would have take out the oil pan for the work.

Three - key and wrapper fell in from the top during oil change. Again, personally I doubt this because there are no wear on the key as one might expect to see.

Either way, gather all the info that you can from the dealer. Get the full service history, work orders etc.

Thank you for that. Working on getting the full service history. Very good points.

[MaximusB]

My point is What your invoice says vs what work was actually done could be two different things, especially if they’re trying to cover up a mistake such as stripping the drain bolt.

Personally I highly doubt someone did this on purpose. There are much easier ways to destroy a car, no matter how much someone have against you. I mean, if they have access to your car to pull this off, why not just puncture your brake lines and let the fluid out slowly and gradually, right? Much easier to poke a few pin holes on the brake lines than go through all the trouble of putting a key inside.