Track forum general chit chat.

[inTgr8r]

Had an interesting experience at the track yesterday.

I'm running RE71Rs in a 275 square setup.
After my last track sessions at Watkins I wasn't getting even tire wear so made a few alignment changes.
Car handled good other than the tire wear.

Changed;
(fr camber from -2.8 to -3.2 and rear camber from -2.0 to -1.8)

1st session of the day yesterday the steering inputs were really twitchy especially on high speed sweepers where the car unweighted over a crest at turn in.
& steering input feel was very poor.

I couldn't understand how the camber changes would have such a big impact on the handling.

2nd session the car felt a little better and I wondered... was I just adjusting to the new setup.

3rd session, the car was magic.... absolutely fantastic.


So; what was the issue?

TIRES!
This was the first time that I swapped fronts & rears on my square set up.
It just took some time for them the wear in & get the contact patch back.

....just something to be aware of when swapping tires around.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

....just something to be aware of when swapping tires around.

More like, "change one thing at a time."

[Ximian]

Scheduling some maintenance on the car over the next few weeks. I completed the spark plugs change in about one a half painful hours. I should have done #4 before #8. That way, I would have figured out to used a rope over the coil puller and pull straight out instead of pulling with my hands for #8 and smashing them against all the sharp edges.

Diff fluid is next. Search isn't returning anything useful but anyone have feedback on "75W140 LS Rowe Hightec Racing Differential Gear Oil (5 Liters)"? Also 5 liters for $90 looks like a steal. I don't need the friction modifier so this one should be fine.

[XCUSE_M3]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Scheduling some maintenance on the car over the next few weeks. I completed the spark plugs change in about one a half painful hours. I should have done #4 before #8. That way, I would have figured out to used a rope over the coil puller and pull straight out instead of pulling with my hands for #8 and smashing them against all the sharp edges.

Diff fluid is next. Search isn't returning anything useful but anyone have feedback on "75W140 LS Rowe Hightec Racing Differential Gear Oil (5 Liters)"? Also 5 liters for $90 looks like a steal. I don't need the friction modifier so this one should be fine.

I have no experience with that fluid but the car should only take 1Lt so you will have alot left over.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by dparm

More like, "change one thing at a time."

Yeah, that's true.

I didn't really consider the tire swap as a change at the time.
But I will in future.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by XCUSE_M3

I have no experience with that fluid but the car should only take 1Lt so you will have alot left over.

According to the Rowe web site, they don't recommend that fluid for daily drivers so I'll switch to two liters of Liqui Moly LM20042.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Scheduling some maintenance on the car over the next few weeks. I completed the spark plugs change in about one a half painful hours. I should have done #4 before #8. That way, I would have figured out to used a rope over the coil puller and pull straight out instead of pulling with my hands for #8 and smashing them against all the sharp edges.

Diff fluid is next. Search isn't returning anything useful but anyone have feedback on "75W140 LS (5 Liters)"? Also 5 liters for $90 looks like a steal. I don't need the friction modifier so this one should be fine.

Why don't you need FM? The LSD was designed to run with a 75w140 that contains that fluid. The locking is going to behave oddly without the additive. If you are concerned about too much FM, just get Castrol Syntrans LS. This is what MB uses in the AMGs and is the same as the OEM BMW fluid, it just has a lower dose of FM.

That Rowe fluid does contain FM, by the way. Looking at the spec sheet, nothing on here looks any better/different from other fluids that cost less and are easier to get. In fact, the specs on paper look almost the same as the Castrol fluid.
http://rowe-mineraloel.com/produktda...=25040&lang=gb

If you really feel like you need to step-up from the OEM Castrol fluid, there's boutique stuff like Motul Gear Competition LS, Renewable Lube, Torco SGO, and Red Line.

[M3MPH1S]

Originally Posted by dparm

Why don't you need FM? The LSD was designed to run with a 75w140 that contains that fluid. The locking is going to behave oddly without the additive. If you are concerned about too much FM, just get Castrol Syntrans LS. This is what MB uses in the AMGs and is the same as the OEM BMW fluid, it just has a lower dose of FM.

That Rowe fluid does contain FM, by the way. Looking at the spec sheet, nothing on here looks any better/different from other fluids that cost less and are easier to get. In fact, the specs on paper look almost the same as the Castrol fluid.
http://rowe-mineraloel.com/produktda...=25040&lang=gb

If you really feel like you need to step-up from the OEM Castrol fluid, there's boutique stuff like Motul Gear Competition LS, Renewable Lube, Torco SGO, and Red Line.

Not saying you're wrong, just throwing in my two cents...

I've been running Redline's non FM diff fluid for the past 60k miles on and off track and haven't had any issues. Hard to really tell, but it does seem to lock up the diff a hair better. There was a thread somewhere a while back where several people were recommending it for track use.

https://www.redlineoil.com/75w140-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

Not saying you're wrong, just throwing in my two cents...

I've been running Redline's non FM diff fluid for the past 60k miles on and off track and haven't had any issues. Hard to really tell, but it does seem to lock up the diff a hair better. There was a thread somewhere a while back where several people were recommending it for track use.

https://www.redlineoil.com/75w140-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...pics/4002295/1

I asked this exact question on BITOG a few years ago. The explanation was basically that no-FM means it will be more grabby, and the period between open and locked will be much faster. You can get into situations where the diff is very rapidly locking and unlocking, which will make the car unstable. In particular, look at MolaKule's explanation on both pages (he's a tribologist).

BMW has tuned the LSD to behave in a very specific way. By running less/no FM, you are taking the chance of reducing performance or making it harder to control. I guess it's up to each individual person to decide, but in the end I trust BMW M's R&D.

[roastbeef]

There was some good info in that thread with the guy that builds aftermarket LSD's. He told me using an oil with no FM would wear out the oem lsd pretty quick.
Lesson was- it's designed to have street manners, not track manners. The oil isn't going to give a drastic or reasonable performance increase in the oem diff. So, just use the right stuff.

[Ximian]

What I meant in my post is that I don't need the OEM diff fluid with extra FM, so any of them should do.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Ximian

What I meant in my post is that I don't need the OEM diff fluid with extra FM, so any of them should do.

i see.

this is the thread i was originally referring to. good info in there.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1359647&page=2

[TomFree]

Coming into this thread very late, but I'm Ricardo's instructor from the 6/9 incident at Summit Pt. I'm here to say a few things and not cause Ricardo any additional pain.

1. Many thanks to Ricardo for thinking fast at the scene and using his t-shirt as a tourniquet on my injured arm. That move may have saved my right hand.

2. I have no ill will towards Ricardo. People make mistakes. Sh!t happens that we did not dream of happening. Dwelling on that makes you bitter and miserable. You must stay positive after an event like this.

3. The docs say that if I do well in physical therapy, I will recover close to, if not 100% strength, flexibility, mobility in my right arm and hand. It will always look rough from the scaring and skin grafts, but that is something I can live with. Full recovery is likely early 2019 if all goes well.

4. My short instructing career is over. I will be responsible for my own actions on track from this point forward. Instructing is a risk I will no longer take.

Ricardo, I wish you the best. I am sure we will cross paths at the track again. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

Thanks,
Tom F.
'97 M3|'15 Touareg TDI|'16 Kawasaki Vulcan S

[Ximian]

Tom, best of luck towards your full recovery.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TomFree

Coming into this thread very late, but I'm Ricardo's instructor from the 6/9 incident at Summit Pt. I'm here to say a few things and not cause Ricardo any additional pain.

1. Many thanks to Ricardo for thinking fast at the scene and using his t-shirt as a tourniquet on my injured arm. That move may have saved my right hand.

2. I have no ill will towards Ricardo. People make mistakes. Sh!t happens that we did not dream of happening. Dwelling on that makes you bitter and miserable. You must stay positive after an event like this.

3. The docs say that if I do well in physical therapy, I will recover close to, if not 100% strength, flexibility, mobility in my right arm and hand. It will always look rough from the scaring and skin grafts, but that is something I can live with. Full recovery is likely early 2019 if all goes well.

4. My short instructing career is over. I will be responsible for my own actions on track from this point forward. Instructing is a risk I will no longer take.

Ricardo, I wish you the best. I am sure we will cross paths at the track again. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

Thanks,
Tom F.
'97 M3|'15 Touareg TDI|'16 Kawasaki Vulcan S

Best wishes with the recovery.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by TomFree

Coming into this thread very late, but I'm Ricardo's instructor from the 6/9 incident at Summit Pt. I'm here to say a few things and not cause Ricardo any additional pain.

1. Many thanks to Ricardo for thinking fast at the scene and using his t-shirt as a tourniquet on my injured arm. That move may have saved my right hand.

2. I have no ill will towards Ricardo. People make mistakes. Sh!t happens that we did not dream of happening. Dwelling on that makes you bitter and miserable. You must stay positive after an event like this.

3. The docs say that if I do well in physical therapy, I will recover close to, if not 100% strength, flexibility, mobility in my right arm and hand. It will always look rough from the scaring and skin grafts, but that is something I can live with. Full recovery is likely early 2019 if all goes well.

4. My short instructing career is over. I will be responsible for my own actions on track from this point forward. Instructing is a risk I will no longer take.

Ricardo, I wish you the best. I am sure we will cross paths at the track again. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

Thanks,
Tom F.
'97 M3|'15 Touareg TDI|'16 Kawasaki Vulcan S

That's awesome! Glad things are going well!

[bigjae1976]

Finally, got my car back on track from my blown motor in 2014. Hoping I can get it dialed in this year. Only a couple of mods, the biggest one was adding an extra cylinder. Others mods are roll cage, 700lb weight reduction and a 5 speed. Otherwise, it's got the same BBK, exhaust and suspension (no rear sway).

Heartland Park in Topeka, KS was a blast!

I deleted the power steering which I figured out to be a mistake. Otherwise. It did great at Heartland Park on a new surface. I drove at MSR Houston 3 weeks later and it was a challenging mixture of understeer and more understeer. Not sure if it was too hot or the old crappy surface demands a different setup.

I've driven some cars that I did not own over the past years...Chargers, Challengers and a Camaro Z28. The driving came back quickly except for the braking. I've got an easy 1-2 seconds by cleaning up my braking.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Finally, got my car back on track from my blown motor in 2014. Hoping I can get it dialed in this year. Only a couple of mods, the biggest one was adding an extra cylinder. Others mods are roll cage, 700lb weight reduction and a 5 speed. Otherwise, it's got the same BBK, exhaust and suspension (no rear sway).

Heartland Park in Topeka, KS was a blast!

I deleted the power steering which I figured out to be a mistake. Otherwise. It did great at Heartland Park on a new surface. I drove at MSR Houston 3 weeks later and it was a challenging mixture of understeer and more understeer. Not sure if it was too hot or the old crappy surface demands a different setup.

I've driven some cars that I did not own over the past years...Chargers, Challengers and a Camaro Z28. The driving came back quickly except for the braking. I've got an easy 1-2 seconds by cleaning up my braking.

So running a 7-cylinder now?

Understeer on a crappy surface. Is it choppy bumpy? If so, high speed bump on your shocks might be too stiff for that track.

Braking. Other than vision, this is the toughest thing to get right when you are out of practice.

[CorruptCommie]

Anybody used Red Line 50WT racing oil? My track car doesn't see any more street driving. Thinking about testing it out next. (S54) My current OCI is 6 track days (or two weekends).

[warp10]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

Anybody used Red Line 50WT racing oil? My track car doesn't see any more street driving. Thinking about testing it out next. (S54) My current OCI is 6 track days (or two weekends).

Yes and love it.

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by warp10

Yes and love it.

Tell me more! Any Blackstone reports?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by admranger

So running a 7-cylinder now?

Understeer on a crappy surface. Is it choppy bumpy? If so, high speed bump on your shocks might be too stiff for that track.

Braking. Other than vision, this is the toughest thing to get right when you are out of practice.

It was a 5 cyl.

Yeah, it was lumpy more than bumpy. The track is built on an old rice patty so the pavement is settling. Add in a major hurricane and poor up keep...you get MSR Houston.

Noted, soften it up a little. Thanks!