News from UK

[Romo]

Originally Posted by SpencerM3

So is it safe to assume that since manual will only be offered at first, we should see a DSG-esque transmission next year?

Nothing is safe.........................until we here some official news from BWM it self that is..................

All the rest is speculation, and if that is what you want, i strongly reccoment to go the NYSE................... Maybe you will make some profit, then buy an M3 ..................

[SpencerM3]

Originally Posted by ILC32

The M3 will not be available for sale until late this year at the earliest, assuming September production startup. It will probably be on sale through at least the 2013 model year. IMHO 420 is only aqequate now in this class, unless weight is crazy low for this type of vehicle. How will 420 compare two or three years from now?

How insignificant did 333hp sound last year? That's the E46 hp out put right? 420 in 6-7 years from now doesn't sound too far off compared to where the E46 life ended.

[devo]

Originally Posted by SpencerM3

How insignificant did 333hp sound last year? That's the E46 hp out put right? 420 in 6-7 years from now doesn't sound too far off compared to where the E46 life ended.

420 would be okay if, of course, the weight is sub 3500 lbs. I would like to see 425 min., but what's 6 ponies?! However, I do hope that the 420 number is a real number that we will see in the states and not 10 HP less like the last time. (343 v. 333 for the E46)

[ukm3]

Originally Posted by swamp2

OK not to sweat the details too much but you work for BMW Group? Group is the "manufacturer". Even more specifically since this is an M car this must mean you work for BMW M GmbH? If you work for BMW in the UK wouldn't that actually mean you work for BMW UK which is not "the manufacturer" but the distributor, an entirely different company.

If you are going to say where you work, make bold claims and expect folks to believe you I guess we can't really "leave it at that".

Mate working for the distributor here in the uk i get to no quite a lot before launch on what will be happening in the new models etc. weather you choose to belive it or not isnt my problem all im offering is what i know that has come from bmw themselves.

if you want to sit on here slaging the car off and saying its needs more power etc is up to you. all im offering is what i know. so take it on board or carry on dreaming about how you think the car should be....

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by ukm3

Mate working for the distributor here in the uk i get to no quite a lot before launch on what will be happening in the new models etc. weather you choose to belive it or not isnt my problem all im offering is what i know that has come from bmw themselves.

if you want to sit on here slaging the car off and saying its needs more power etc is up to you. all im offering is what i know. so take it on board or carry on dreaming about how you think the car should be....

OK let's get things straight. I never slag the car off. I am an ardent BMW and M supporter and owner. I plan on making the E92 M my third M car. I have never said the M3 needs more power. I have stated on multiple occasions that 400 even should be sufficient and even commendable. However, if BMW wants this car to remain "on the podium" for years to come, 420 may not do it.

In terms of where you work, you should only expect so much healthy skepticism. We get so many folks making sweeping statement of opinion and intentionally or unintentionally making them appear as cold hard fact. Thanks for clarifying a bit your position. However if you are at a dealer you certainly know the overwhelming opinion of informed board members and that is that dealers typically know less than we (the board) know and know it after we do. I think you can argue much with that. Thanks for your contribution and honesty and keep the information flowing! Cheers.

[ukm3]

no problem i myself am a die hard M fan hence why im here, when ever i get the chance to speak with head office bods at courses etc i always try a pry whatever information i can out of them. I myself get quite board of customers coming in and trying to tell me what the car will be like because they have read it on the net. most of which is complete bollox.

So I would like to share whatever info i can get from my posistion as possible.

I hope the information I can provide is usefull to you all

[ukm3]

just a quick note customer production will start in July time with first deliverys starting in September 07.

[mdriver]

Originally Posted by MI6

Again, that seems spot on..............

If you want a sunroof though it appears that's not going to happen.....

I guess I will have to get to like the CF roof after all.

[ILC32]

So far, it seems that M5 owners do not believe the motor is underrated by BMW.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?p=995614

Again, I think the 335 is underrated because it is impinging on M3 territory already. I do not think the E92 M3 will be underrated. To do so would only hinder BMW's efforts to distance the M3 from the 335.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by mdriver

I guess I will have to get to like the CF roof after all.

Same here. I would rather have a CF roof than a mandatory sunroof, which I still maintain is a dealbreaker for me.

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by Romo

CF roof saves aproximatly 6 kg, plastic body panels are also available on the stock E 92 335i.

E92 335i = 1600kg
E92 M3 = ??

With an estimated 114 HP extra on the M3, I can only hope the new M3 is below 1600kg, but I realy doubt that............................

A CF roof may only save 6 kg (13.2 lbs) over a steel roof (probably more, I'd think) but there is about a 50 lbs savings between a steel roof WITH a sunroof (plus motors, track, etc) vs. a CF roof.

So compared to a 335i coupe that weighs 3570 lbs or so, the M3 should saver 50 lbs on the roof, 10-20 lbs on the aluminum hood, 10 lbs PER CORNER on the wheels and tires (forged 18", hopefully), and maybe a few more lbs on lightweight aluminum fenders, less sound deadening, etc.

I doubt the brakes will be heavier than the 13.6" monsters on the 335i, so that weight should not go up by more than a few lbs. And the aluminum V8 weighs about the same as the E46 M3's 3.2 L six, and probably about the same as the 3L turbo in the 335i (when you factor in the weight of the turbo, intercooler, plumbing, etc.)

3570
- 50
- 40
- 20

= 3460 lbs

They may add some weight back with a stiffer structure, but hopefully this will be negated by lighter seats (manuals vs. standard power seats in 335i).

I think the rumor that the E92 M3 is supposed to weigh no more than the E46 M3 may be true. Now everyone close your eyes and imagine your E46 M3 with a screaming 420 HP V8 . . . mmmmmmmmmm

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

A CF roof may only save 6 kg (13.2 lbs) over a steel roof (probably more, I'd think) but there is about a 50 lbs savings between a steel roof WITH a sunroof (plus motors, track, etc) vs. a CF roof.

So compared to a 335i coupe that weighs 3570 lbs or so, the M3 should saver 50 lbs on the roof, 10-20 lbs on the aluminum hood, 10 lbs PER CORNER on the wheels and tires (forged 18", hopefully), and maybe a few more lbs on lightweight aluminum fenders, less sound deadening, etc.

I doubt the brakes will be heavier than the 13.6" monsters on the 335i, so that weight should not go up by more than a few lbs. And the aluminum V8 weighs about the same as the E46 M3's 3.2 L six, and probably about the same as the 3L turbo in the 335i (when you factor in the weight of the turbo, intercooler, plumbing, etc.)

3570
- 50
- 40
- 20

= 3460 lbs

They may add some weight back with a stiffer structure, but hopefully this will be negated by lighter seats (manuals vs. standard power seats in 335i).

I think the rumor that the E92 M3 is supposed to weigh no more than the E46 M3 may be true. Now everyone close your eyes and imagine your E46 M3 with a screaming 420 HP V8 . . . mmmmmmmmmm

"Sidewalls made of synthetic material" -20
Powerdome +1
Smaller fuel tank -5
No dipstick -1
iDrive +6

=3441 lbs

[RandyB]

Titanium connceting rods...

The fenders are plastic(or composite material), aren't they?

I hope it's <3500 too!

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by rvacha

Powerdome +1

As much as some hate the "Powerdome" I doubt it adds a pound. In fact, punching 2 holes in the hood might save a few ounces..... !

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

3570
- 50
- 40
- 20

= 3460 lbs

Finally a concrete effort to actually guess a reasonable weight! ... However, it is inaccurate/unfair to include only the weight savings, you must include the gains as well and I know there will be gains. They are likely to be brakes (I disagree with you on this one, this beast really needs larger brakes and rotors), the engine will prob. be a bit heavier than the 335i I-6 FI, chassis stiffening, underbody pan (it is rumored to have a complete underbody cover for aerodynamics), tires, wider driveshafts, bigger/heavier clutch and tranny, etc, etc. Add these to your list, brainstorm a bit more and tally it up. Heck we may even save a few pounds on thinner glass. (I know, I should do it, just feeling too lazy right now after the anticlimactic unveiling).

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by rvacha

"Sidewalls made of synthetic material" -20
Powerdome +1
Smaller fuel tank -5
No dipstick -1
iDrive +6

=3441 lbs

You are very funny.

Don't forget, Burrito you ate for lunch, +2

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Finally a concrete effort to actually guess a reasonable weight! ... However, it is inaccurate/unfair to include only the weight savings, you must include the gains as well and I know there will be gains. They are likely to be brakes (I disagree with you on this one, this beast really needs larger brakes and rotors), the engine will prob. be a bit heavier than the 335i I-6 FI, chassis stiffening, underbody pan (it is rumored to have a complete underbody cover for aerodynamics), tires, wider driveshafts, bigger/heavier clutch and tranny, etc, etc. Add these to your list, brainstorm a bit more and tally it up. Heck we may even save a few pounds on thinner glass. (I know, I should do it, just feeling too lazy right now after the anticlimactic unveiling).

It is hard to estimate on these other things. The benefit of a high revving, lower torque engine is that you don't need the clutch and tranny to be much heavier (if at all). My understanding is that it is torque that stresses the powertrain components the most. The tires only go from 225/255 to 245/265s, so this does not add much. The 335i wheels and tires weight almost 60 lbs!

I agree the chassis stiffening will add weight (unless they pull a Z06 trick and use aluminum:rocks: ) and an underbody would also add some lbs. But taking out the power seats saves at least 20-30 lbs total.

If BMW was really conscious about weight during the M3's entire R&D process they could definitely have an E92 M3 weighing in at the same weight as the E46 M3. And with how much they talked about lightness in Geneva you gotta think this was a primary objective in its design.

Here's to hopin'!