Smallish RWD, manual sedan?

[Red Bread]

Now that the F30 is out and even larger than the E90 and there is no evidence to support a coming 1er sedan, how hard can it be for another manufacturer to realize there's a gap missing in the small sedan world?

Ford and Hyundai both have rwd coupes that could easily support a small sedan. Apparently Subaru and Toyota do too now. BMW sells a fraction of 3er coupes compared to 3er sedans. Why won't someone build an E36 or even E46 sized sedan that has rwd and a stick?

I don't hold much hope that the next Lexus IS will offer a manual, or be much fun to drive, but someone, somewhere has to be developing something fun, right?

Audi seems to have realized that the upsizing of the A4 left a gap and they're filling it with an A3 sedan. Why can't BMW use this logic and just make a 1er sedan, I'd even take the ugly front end, if it meant I could have a car that wasn't fifteen plus feet long.

I know Alfa will probably never actually come to the US, especially with the weak Fiat 500 sales, but aren't they working on small, rwd sedans?

I won't even mention that what I really want is a wagon, with all three pedals.

[b0bab0i]

Cadillac ATS?

[Artmasterx]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Now that the F30 is out and even larger than the E90 and there is no evidence to support a coming 1er sedan, how hard can it be for another manufacturer to realize there's a gap missing in the small sedan world?

Ford and Hyundai both have rwd coupes that could easily support a small sedan. Apparently Subaru and Toyota do too now. BMW sells a fraction of 3er coupes compared to 3er sedans. Why won't someone build an E36 or even E46 sized sedan that has rwd and a stick?

I don't hold much hope that the next Lexus IS will offer a manual, or be much fun to drive, but someone, somewhere has to be developing something fun, right?

Audi seems to have realized that the upsizing of the A4 left a gap and they're filling it with an A3 sedan. Why can't BMW use this logic and just make a 1er sedan, I'd even take the ugly front end, if it meant I could have a car that wasn't fifteen plus feet long.

I know Alfa will probably never actually come to the US, especially with the weak Fiat 500 sales, but aren't they working on small, rwd sedans?

I won't even mention that what I really want is a wagon, with all three pedals.

I don't think the Toyobaru BRZ would support a sedan, it is literally the size of a Miata.

But yeah, there is not much there. Even a WRX sedan is longer than the E92 by a couple of inches.

The ATS is 183 inches long, which is about 4 inches longer than the E92.

To get something "short", 4-door, a decent transmission, and not FWD, you really have to go with an AWD hatchback (e.g., Golf R, WRX, Audi A3).

Even the Ford Focus sedan is the same as an E92, the Fiesta sedan is about 5 inches shorter.

[Red Bread]

Yeah, the Golf R is the only non-fwd option that really fits my current wants. The aftermarket makes some Haldex controllers that send more power to the rear than stock, but I imagine that will create some wear issues since it wasn't really designed to support that power bias. I imagine the same will be true for the upcoming A3 sedan.

ATS is appealing, but just seems very similar size and weight wise to the F30.

I realize the BRZ/F86 is smaller, but have to think a wheelbase stretch could work, of course it's already been tested at 2900 pounds, so doubt that created a sedan with more wheelbase and greater content would really accomplish anything.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by Artmasterx

I don't think the Toyobaru BRZ would support a sedan, it is literally the size of a Miata.

But yeah, there is not much there. Even a WRX sedan is longer than the E92 by a couple of inches.

The ATS is 183 inches long, which is about 4 inches longer than the E92.

To get something "short", 4-door, a decent transmission, and not FWD, you really have to go with an AWD hatchback (e.g., Golf R, WRX, Audi A3).

Even the Ford Focus sedan is the same as an E92, the Fiesta sedan is about 5 inches shorter.

Its been rumored that the next gen IS is based on a stretched BRZ/FRS platform

[Artmasterx]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

Its been rumored that the next gen IS is based on a stretched BRZ/FRS platform

That could be interesting. The current IS is about 180", which is 2" more than a E92, and I find it hard to believe they would make it smaller given what every other car company is doing these days.

I take back what I said about the BRZ length. It is about 170", which is a foot longer than the Miata.

[Robert]

Mini cooper driven backwards is rwd

[eVitO]

g37? corolla? mazda 3?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by eVitO

g37? corolla? mazda 3?

Huge, fwd, fwd.

[aajami]

Your A3 sedan will either be AWD or FWD, though. Maybe hope that BMW decides to compete with that market segment and gives its 2-series the GranCoupe treatment a la the 6-series GC and forthcoming 4-series GC and X4.

[eVitO]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Huge, fwd, fwd.

Right, sorry forgot about the fwd part. Wasn't really paying attention. How about anything AWD? You can get an Evo or STi or something comparable.

[Red Bread]

Not opposed to awd, but both the Evo and STI seem long in the tooth. Plus every Evo seems to smoke like crazy and Subie has said they won't base the next WRX/STI on the new Impreza, so I'm sort of watching to see what they do next.

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Now that the F30 is out and even larger than the E90 and there is no evidence to support a coming 1er sedan, how hard can it be for another manufacturer to realize there's a gap missing in the small sedan world?

Ford and Hyundai both have rwd coupes that could easily support a small sedan. Apparently Subaru and Toyota do too now. BMW sells a fraction of 3er coupes compared to 3er sedans. Why won't someone build an E36 or even E46 sized sedan that has rwd and a stick?

I don't hold much hope that the next Lexus IS will offer a manual, or be much fun to drive, but someone, somewhere has to be developing something fun, right?

Audi seems to have realized that the upsizing of the A4 left a gap and they're filling it with an A3 sedan. Why can't BMW use this logic and just make a 1er sedan, I'd even take the ugly front end, if it meant I could have a car that wasn't fifteen plus feet long.

I know Alfa will probably never actually come to the US, especially with the weak Fiat 500 sales, but aren't they working on small, rwd sedans?

I won't even mention that what I really want is a wagon, with all three pedals.

I wish BMW would make a modern E36. Perfect size.

[b0bab0i]

Mercedes A-Class AMG
Normal A-Class is usually FWD, but theres rumors that the A25 AMG will be rwd.

And why would you want it to be a sedan? E36 sedans have barley any legroom for rear passengers.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

Mercedes A-Class AMG
Normal A-Class is usually FWD, but theres rumors that the A25 AMG will be rwd.

And why would you want it to be a sedan? E36 sedans have barley any legroom for rear passengers.

I have a hard time seeing this happen. That means the AMG version would have to be built on an entirely new platform, and given that the AMG would be a comparatively low volume car, the ROI would simply not make any sense for MB.

[az34]

its a shame that the euro 1 series hachtback is not coming to N/A it'll fulfill your criteria.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

I wish BMW would make a modern E36. Perfect size.

That's why i am keeping my E36, even when the F30 comes to fill my garage. My parents have been kind enough to even keep my E30 :P

I wish BMW makes a modern day E30 or E36...
a 1-serie sedan would make perfect sense, or be a good candidate!

But BMW is probably fearing that all the enthusiasts will flee the bread and butter 3-series for the 1-series

[aajami]

Originally Posted by az34

its a shame that the euro 1 series hachtback is not coming to N/A it'll fulfill your criteria.

What was the reasoning behind not bringing the F20 1-series to North America, anyway? Fear of cannibalization with F30 sales?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by aajami

What was the reasoning behind not bringing the F20 1-series to North America, anyway? Fear of cannibalization with F30 sales?

I assume it has more to do with the over priced, high-end of Mini, especially JCW models.

[Jay60642]

Originally Posted by Artmasterx

That could be interesting. The current IS is about 180", which is 2" more than a E92, and I find it hard to believe they would make it smaller given what every other car company is doing these days.

I take back what I said about the BRZ length. It is about 170", which is a foot longer than the Miata.

If IS is 180" long, it is 1.9" SHORTER than E92.

[Artmasterx]

I was quoting the value for the sedan (I didn't realize the coupes were longer). If the E92 implies the coupe, my bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E90)
Length:
Touring: 4,526 mm (178.2 in)
Convertible: 4,587 mm (180.6 in)
2007–2010 Coupe: 181.1 in (4,600 mm)
2011– Coupe: 181.9 in (4,620 mm)
saloon: 4,526 mm (178.2 in)

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

And why would you want it to be a sedan? E36 sedans have barley any legroom for rear passengers.

I'm 6'2" and have ridden in the back of E36 M3's with no real discomfort. My wife's 5'3" so there's always room behind her. I had a B5 A4 that wasn't any larger than the E36 and it was great for carrying four folks in reasonable comfort. I don't need a limo, just a fairly light, small sized sedan or wagon.

If I had to buy today I'd get a Golf R, but will likely wait until Frankfurt to see the MkVII Golf and if it holds true to rumors that it will be a few hundred pounds lighter than the current Golf, I'll likely just wait on the MkVII R. If it doesn't prove to be all that much lighter, I'll likely just get an F31 M Sport when they become available for ED.