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      11-09-2018, 11:19 PM   #1
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Buying a used car question

Greetings,
Finally after what seams forever, Im able to start looking for the car. Been checking the prices for over a year on these cars, but sadly couldnt pull a trigger at the time.

I have always leased my vehicles in the past.
Anything in particular I need to know before buying a used car? I am familiar with our cars, more interested of the ins and outs of buying a use vehicle itself.
Is there a difference buying private vs dealer? Tax savings?
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      11-10-2018, 03:21 AM   #2
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I bought mine at a dealer and was able to knock $6k off the asking price which then ended up being lower than any price I could bargain through a private party with comparable miles/options. Make sure you bargain with the out the door price and ask them to break down all of the fees, taxes, etc.

From my experience, every private party seller that I went to loved their cars so they would try to up-sell me, tell me their cars were unicorns, and would barely budge on price. That's definitely not the case for everyone though because I hear stories of people going through private parties and getting great deals.

Theres no tax savings, but you might be able to save from a private party by avoiding dealership fees.

I would suggest thinking of all the options/miles you want, set a no-higher-than price in your mind and bargain in-person after the test drive and PPI.
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      11-10-2018, 01:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by phantasticphan View Post
I bought mine at a dealer and was able to knock $6k off the asking price which then ended up being lower than any price I could bargain through a private party with comparable miles/options. Make sure you bargain with the out the door price and ask them to break down all of the fees, taxes, etc.

From my experience, every private party seller that I went to loved their cars so they would try to up-sell me, tell me their cars were unicorns, and would barely budge on price. That's definitely not the case for everyone though because I hear stories of people going through private parties and getting great deals.

Theres no tax savings, but you might be able to save from a private party by avoiding dealership fees.

I would suggest thinking of all the options/miles you want, set a no-higher-than price in your mind and bargain in-person after the test drive and PPI.

Thank you, copy.

Im pretty set on what i want.

CF roof is a must.
Good condition exterior pain is a must as well.
The rest im very flexible. Im not worried about people holding on to their cars as i know the market for M3s very well by now. Been watching them close for two years, i was planning to buy the car early spring but things didnt go as planned.

A lot of sellers set their prices very high, as if vehicles are gold, then drop $5-10k in few months. Cars that are $48k + is beyond me, unless its an SE modeling....

Manual will be easier to deal with as there are only two im looking at, sadly both are 80-100k km. Any other manual car isnt worth paying the extra $ to me.
DCT i have much bigger selection, will come down to shape car is in and price.
Good thing for me its almost winter, im not in such a big hurry. I did miss out on 2012 Frozen silvers, sadly.
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      11-10-2018, 02:50 PM   #4
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Just keep on looking for what you want, def don't settle. Yeah frozen colors are really nice, but that is definitely alot harder to come by and a little more expensive.
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      11-11-2018, 10:38 AM   #5
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My advice is to first go out and see a couple of M3's in your area regardless of the spec. Just get an idea of what the average condition looks like.

Dealer vs. Private Party doesn't really matter on these cars from what I have seen. Just make sure you get to put the car on a lift to look at the underbody and a pre-purchase inspection.

Clean examples with low miles will require you to act fast.
I got reached out to on the forum by a local GTA dealer on a trade-in.
Wasn't even available to anyone else the day I bought it.

Good luck - the search can be tough but the right car is worth it
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      11-12-2018, 03:49 PM   #6
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Will do, thank you.
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      11-16-2018, 10:38 AM   #7
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I'm thinking of selling mine. It's mint, not Kijiji mint, actually perfect. White, Fox Red, 6Spd, Carbon pack, 76xxx kms. PM me if interested.

I don't want to take it through its first winter. But I only have one garage now
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      11-16-2018, 06:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by andrew.k View Post
I'm thinking of selling mine. It's mint, not Kijiji mint, actually perfect. White, Fox Red, 6Spd, Carbon pack, 76xxx kms. PM me if interested.

I don't want to take it through its first winter. But I only have one garage now
that is nice..
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      11-16-2018, 08:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by andrew.k View Post
I'm thinking of selling mine. It's mint, not Kijiji mint, actually perfect. White, Fox Red, 6Spd, Carbon pack, 76xxx kms. PM me if interested.

I don't want to take it through its first winter. But I only have one garage now
Heh there is one sweet moonstone on auto trader and no cf roof
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      11-17-2018, 11:14 AM   #10
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I'm going to give my fair share of input before you buy a M3.

Make sure you do your homework, buy based on service history and make sure they have proof/paperwork to show for it. I usually would be more interested in buying from a private seller as opposed to buying from a dealership/used car place. Too much sketch shit I've seen after working in the industry.

There are a lot of M3s on the market that is just in horrible condition. After searching for a good year I ended up finding what I thought was nearly as perfect it can be for a 9-year-old car.

Some of the dealer trade-in cars are a joke, I'm not going to name the dealership, but the "sales manager" of that dealership tried to sell me a sedan with all 4 sides of the car repainted. The seat condition did not even match the mileage the car had, car had 60,000km but the seats looked like they were at least 150,000km+.

The frozen colors are horrible to maintain, after seeing several in person, I've concluded that many of them are not well taken care of. Some of them were repainted and no longer "frozen".

I was looking for a manual for A LONG TIME. After test driving several, I thought to myself, unless the car is being sold by an enthusiast that you know drives the car with care it's not worth the hassle.
I went to see a bunch manuals, two had mechanical overrevs on the DME which indicated well over 9000RPM. They ran fine, but I wasn't sure what the future entails for them.
One had bad synchros, second gear grinded like shit and the guy said it was fine. One of them had a bad clutch job, there was air in the clutch so when you try to release the clutch it got stuck halfway and wouldn't pop back into position.

So I ended up with a DCT, never looked back. The E9x platform of M3s are great to drive regardless of transmission, both have a different experience. Right off the line, the DCT stock with MPSS can get you 1/4 mile times of 12.4/12.6. Even my friend with a 6MT said he kind of wishes he got the DCT. Either way, don't think too much about the transmission choice unless you are a 6mt purist, both transmissions are equally as fun!

Last but not least, make sure you scan the DME for any errors, I've seen VANOS codes which are shadow codes, which might indicate potential problems with the car even though the car winds up to redline just fine.

Hope that helps...
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      11-18-2018, 09:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON.M3 View Post
I'm going to give my fair share of input before you buy a M3.

Make sure you do your homework, buy based on service history and make sure they have proof/paperwork to show for it. I usually would be more interested in buying from a private seller as opposed to buying from a dealership/used car place. Too much sketch shit I've seen after working in the industry.

There are a lot of M3s on the market that is just in horrible condition. After searching for a good year I ended up finding what I thought was nearly as perfect it can be for a 9-year-old car.

Some of the dealer trade-in cars are a joke, I'm not going to name the dealership, but the "sales manager" of that dealership tried to sell me a sedan with all 4 sides of the car repainted. The seat condition did not even match the mileage the car had, car had 60,000km but the seats looked like they were at least 150,000km+.

The frozen colors are horrible to maintain, after seeing several in person, I've concluded that many of them are not well taken care of. Some of them were repainted and no longer "frozen".

I was looking for a manual for A LONG TIME. After test driving several, I thought to myself, unless the car is being sold by an enthusiast that you know drives the car with care it's not worth the hassle.
I went to see a bunch manuals, two had mechanical overrevs on the DME which indicated well over 9000RPM. They ran fine, but I wasn't sure what the future entails for them.
One had bad synchros, second gear grinded like shit and the guy said it was fine. One of them had a bad clutch job, there was air in the clutch so when you try to release the clutch it got stuck halfway and wouldn't pop back into position.

So I ended up with a DCT, never looked back. The E9x platform of M3s are great to drive regardless of transmission, both have a different experience. Right off the line, the DCT stock with MPSS can get you 1/4 mile times of 12.4/12.6. Even my friend with a 6MT said he kind of wishes he got the DCT. Either way, don't think too much about the transmission choice unless you are a 6mt purist, both transmissions are equally as fun!

Last but not least, make sure you scan the DME for any errors, I've seen VANOS codes which are shadow codes, which might indicate potential problems with the car even though the car winds up to redline just fine.

Hope that helps...
Gordon, thanks a lot brother. Very, very useful. Any input is always helpful for me - Ive always leased new cars. So use car road is new to me.
Good thing for me, I know a thing or two about e9x. I have also planned to buy the car in spring this year yet I've started to look at cars on sale 8 months prior to get familiar with the market. Close to two years of watchig these cars, I can tell a seller if his/her will sell. Sometimes I see people put their cars on sale and know in 3 months price will drop as noone will buy it... Yet as someone said on here - to every seller their car is a unicorn.

Now, you have confirmed what I've learned from just watching auto trader and kjiji on private vs dealer for me.
Only pros I see with dealer for me, or should I say I saw, was paperwork, documents, title ttranfer, payment. Another possitive I was looking more into bmw dealer cars and thought I could bargain for extended warranty.

I'm mostly considering private, I'd say 90% chance I'll go with that. Just have to learn as much as I can about buying the car and getting Carly or something to check codes and mileage. Change of mileage is a big concern for me, if it's possible to do on m3s. On e90s it was, 328/335s

Ive seen frozen blue, rare, last year at the BMW dealer and the member almost bought that car. I learn a lot from that. As car was in such a bad shape and bmw dealer tried to cover it. So if I can't trust bmw dealer then why bother with others. That's why I look but don't hook on cars less then $ 40k at the dealer as in my mind those cars are dead meat. Of course some can be good but my interest is low.

Now for private, i have found a few and seams like well taken care of, sadly high mileage. As you said and other people In my other thread, look more toward the person maintaining the car and not so much the milage.

Frozen colors, Ohh my.. They make me drool but I get what you're saying and will be careful.

From 2 years of looking and going back an forth I have little preference on the car now. I preffer manual but I'll take dct in a heart beat. One thing I'm pretty set for is cf roof. Rest I care very little about. With that said that moonstone on auto trader for 42k makes me drool and sadly has a sunroof. Lmao that car is testing how bad I hate sunroofs right now.

Lastly,
I'll give you an example. There was this car for sale for over 6months ago I'd say, may be more. Silver 2012 Oshawa ... Finally was sold, guy was a member here. What seamed as a good car. I wanted it for sure. Then that same car appeared a month after it was sold on Kijiji for sale from the second owner. For a week. Now from Halifax. Then that car disappeared until now. Again on sale from Halifax from second owner. It's crazy how much I know bout these cars by watching them for so long.

It's almost winter and although prices may be lower there is not much selection. Good thing I'm not in a hurry, so temptation isn't over powering my judgment. I can wait. My two cars I think of going for are both far, Calgary and Vancouver. I don't see anything from Ontario that has my interest. I'd drive the car but def not from vacourver. So that is an expense plus rod bearing as I plan to do that right away for peace of mind.

Last edited by OwnAge; 11-18-2018 at 10:05 AM..
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      11-20-2018, 09:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON.M3 View Post
I'm going to give my fair share of input before you buy a M3.

Make sure you do your homework, buy based on service history and make sure they have proof/paperwork to show for it. I usually would be more interested in buying from a private seller as opposed to buying from a dealership/used car place. Too much sketch shit I've seen after working in the industry.

There are a lot of M3s on the market that is just in horrible condition. After searching for a good year I ended up finding what I thought was nearly as perfect it can be for a 9-year-old car.

Some of the dealer trade-in cars are a joke, I'm not going to name the dealership, but the "sales manager" of that dealership tried to sell me a sedan with all 4 sides of the car repainted. The seat condition did not even match the mileage the car had, car had 60,000km but the seats looked like they were at least 150,000km+.

The frozen colors are horrible to maintain, after seeing several in person, I've concluded that many of them are not well taken care of. Some of them were repainted and no longer "frozen".

I was looking for a manual for A LONG TIME. After test driving several, I thought to myself, unless the car is being sold by an enthusiast that you know drives the car with care it's not worth the hassle.
I went to see a bunch manuals, two had mechanical overrevs on the DME which indicated well over 9000RPM. They ran fine, but I wasn't sure what the future entails for them.
One had bad synchros, second gear grinded like shit and the guy said it was fine. One of them had a bad clutch job, there was air in the clutch so when you try to release the clutch it got stuck halfway and wouldn't pop back into position.

So I ended up with a DCT, never looked back. The E9x platform of M3s are great to drive regardless of transmission, both have a different experience. Right off the line, the DCT stock with MPSS can get you 1/4 mile times of 12.4/12.6. Even my friend with a 6MT said he kind of wishes he got the DCT. Either way, don't think too much about the transmission choice unless you are a 6mt purist, both transmissions are equally as fun!

Last but not least, make sure you scan the DME for any errors, I've seen VANOS codes which are shadow codes, which might indicate potential problems with the car even though the car winds up to redline just fine.

Hope that helps...
Agreed wiith all of the above. Takes a while to find a good vehicle.
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      11-20-2018, 12:23 PM   #13
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Just have to wait look around and find the right car for you. I was looking for over half a year until I made the purchase. Also I wouldn't buy an ex lease car, because those are the worst in terms of maintenance. Maintenance on those is bare minimum and will cause issues down the road.
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      11-20-2018, 03:39 PM   #14
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Don’t jump on the first car you see, view and drive as many as you can. I test drove six cars before deciding on the one I liked the most. All drove basically the same despite varying between 2009 and 2011, and 70000-12000km. That confirmed to me the advice to buy on condition rather than year or kilometres (to a reasonable degree anyway).

Had to wait several months for the spec I wanted to come up, and then several weeks more before the dealer accepted my offer.

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Also I wouldn't buy an ex lease car, because those are the worst in terms of maintenance. Maintenance on those is bare minimum and will cause issues down the road.
I’d expect that will exclude an awful lot of options. These cars are frequently leased from new. Not sure why maintenance wouldn’t be done since it’s generally included in a lease deal.
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      11-20-2018, 04:27 PM   #15
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Don’t jump on the first car you see, view and drive as many as you can. I test drove six cars before deciding on the one I liked the most. All drove basically the same despite varying between 2009 and 2011, and 70000-12000km. That confirmed to me the advice to buy on condition rather than year or kilometres (to a reasonable degree anyway).

Had to wait several months for the spec I wanted to come up, and then several weeks more before the dealer accepted my offer.



I’d expect that will exclude an awful lot of options. These cars are frequently leased from new. Not sure why maintenance wouldn’t be done since it’s generally included in a lease deal.
Usually the leased cars are owned by people who will drive the car for a a bit like 1-3 years and return it so they don't really care how they drive it or don't take care of it. They are usually not enthusiast owned, meaning they won't take it easy under cold start and warming it up, and who knows what grade fuel they would use. I remember back when I was looking for a e92 m3 and there was one that I really liked but it was a lease return. It had all the service history from a BMW dealer but oil change intervals of 15,000km... and the interior looked like it had 100,000km on it.
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      11-20-2018, 04:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
Don’t jump on the first car you see, view and drive as many as you can. I test drove six cars before deciding on the one I liked the most. All drove basically the same despite varying between 2009 and 2011, and 70000-12000km. That confirmed to me the advice to buy on condition rather than year or kilometres (to a reasonable degree anyway).

Had to wait several months for the spec I wanted to come up, and then several weeks more before the dealer accepted my offer.



I’d expect that will exclude an awful lot of options. These cars are frequently leased from new. Not sure why maintenance wouldn’t be done since it’s generally included in a lease deal.
Usually the leased cars are owned by people who will drive the car for a a bit like 1-3 years and return it so they don't really care how they drive it or don't take care of it. They are usually not enthusiast owned, meaning they won't take it easy under cold start and warming it up, and who hows what grade fuel they would use. I remember back when I was looking for a e92 m3 and there was one that I really liked but it was a lease return. It had all the service history from a BMW dealer but oil change intervals of 15,000km... and the interior looked like it had 100,000km on it.
I just think you're making a lot of assumptions and sweeping statements there.

I don't think it's fair to suggest all leases are issued to people who aren't enthusiasts, quite often a lease makes sense for tax purposes and allows you to more frequently swap into a new car without the hassles of "ownership". I'd be surprised if proper servicing wasn't a requirement of the lease.
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      11-20-2018, 04:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowm3 View Post
Just have to wait look around and find the right car for you. I was looking for over half a year until I made the purchase. Also I wouldn't buy an ex lease car, because those are the worst in terms of maintenance. Maintenance on those is bare minimum and will cause issues down the road.
Not necessarily the case. I bought mine from an older gentleman who leased the car and bought it back. Low mileage, the guy kept it and had a book of service records which were all paid out of pocket. O2 sensors and spark plugs were done every 20,000km. Did regularly oil service intervals and replaced a failed throttle body actuator. All done at BMW and everything was under his name.

Don't be afraid to get a lease vehicle, just make sure what to look out for.
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      11-20-2018, 05:49 PM   #18
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I just think you're making a lot of assumptions and sweeping statements there.

I don't think it's fair to suggest all leases are issued to people who aren't enthusiasts, quite often a lease makes sense for tax purposes and allows you to more frequently swap into a new car without the hassles of "ownership". I'd be surprised if proper servicing wasn't a requirement of the lease.
I'm not saying all leased cars are a bad idea, they do get serviced but the bare minimum for them to pass the inspection. It's different if you do the regular maintenance plus pay out of your pocket for extra service intervals then that is different.
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      11-20-2018, 05:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by GORDON.M3 View Post
Not necessarily the case. I bought mine from an older gentleman who leased the car and bought it back. Low mileage, the guy kept it and had a book of service records which were all paid out of pocket. O2 sensors and spark plugs were done every 20,000km. Did regularly oil service intervals and replaced a failed throttle body actuator. All done at BMW and everything was under his name.

Don't be afraid to get a lease vehicle, just make sure what to look out for.
Yeah you found a good one, but i'm just saying watch out when buying a leased car. It's different in your case where the guy leased his car at first then bought it out, and he did regular maintenance, where he paid for it. I was just referring to where if they lease the car and know they are giving it back soon, SOME drivers will not care to how they drive or treat the car.
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      11-20-2018, 05:54 PM   #20
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I'm not saying all leased cars are a bad idea, they do get serviced but the bare minimum for them to pass the inspection. It's different if you do the regular maintenance plus pay out of your pocket for extra service intervals then that is different.
What extra servicing are you suggesting they should have though? Later in life sure additional maintenance will be required, but I’d be pretty annoyed if my brand new car required above and beyond what the manufacturer has specified in the first 3 years.

These cars operate on condition-based servicing, so if you’re driving it harder the system will prompt for a service (i.e. oil change, filters, etc.) more often. You cruise around town then it’ll let you go longer. A current-model engine with modern oil shouldn’t (and from what I read, doesn’t) require the crazy 5000km change intervals that may have made sense in the past, certainly not on a daily driven street car.
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      11-20-2018, 06:09 PM   #21
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What extra servicing are you suggesting they should have though? Later in life sure additional maintenance will be required, but I’d be pretty annoyed if my brand new car required above and beyond what the manufacturer has specified in the first 3 years.

These cars operate on condition-based servicing, so if you’re driving it harder the system will prompt for a service (i.e. oil change, filters, etc.) more often. You cruise around town then it’ll let you go longer. A current-model engine with modern oil shouldn’t (and from what I read, doesn’t) require the crazy 5000km change intervals that may have made sense in the past, certainly not on a daily driven street car.
I think the 5000km oil intervals are important on these cars especially to keep the rod bearings in good shape. Some people can disagree with that statement, but I believe this s65 engine needs good oil to run smoothly for a long time without worrying about failing rob bearings. Once the oil changes it density and content the rod bearings do not get the lubrication needed and start to fail slowly. Doesn't matter if the car is street driven or tracked a few times a month it needs regular oil changes. I don't believe in what bmw suggest that the 15,000k oil change intervals are good.
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      11-21-2018, 05:28 PM   #22
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“Enthusiast owned”

Be vary of everybody, there are no exceptions. Plenty of “enthusiats” drive cars they cant afford to keep and the condition and maintainance will show.

When i was searching for mine it took me months to find the right one. The first time it was for sale I didnt pull the trigger on it fast enough.and then 6 months later it popped up and i acted much quicker now that i knew what i was looking for.

In between there was a couple cars that werent up to my spec. I was very colour and condition consious. In theory i couldve bought a couple cars that were so so and paid much less. But i want what i want.

Go out see some cars your interested in. Your eyes wont lie to you and you will educate yourself on the model aong the way. These cars tend to show their age in certain areas no matter what u do.

And most importantly before you purchase get the car checked out by a mechanic. I did that prior to purchase it was money well spent.

Good luck
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