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08-25-2011, 09:48 AM | #1 |
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F30 M3 / F32 M3 too hot to turbo... really?
Hey guys.
I was wondering if anyone else saw this http://www.topspeed.com/cars/porsche-gt2/ke1715.html I am a little worried about the blow back for even referring to the US version of Top Gear... but that said, I hate the show but like Tanner. Firstly I know very little about forced induction, but it scares me that you can drop a ton of cash-ola on a supercar and not have it perform on demand…. “Yeah… the car is wicked fast… except today… it’s a touch too hot… I am down 50-60 HP” My question to the people that are probably a lot smarter about this stuff than me is that, is the next generation Ms with turbo rather than naturally aspirated motors going to have the same issues? For those that are going to say that 640BHP minus 50 … what is the big deal? I have 414 under my hood now. I don’t used them all, BUT paid for them and like knowing that I got what I paid for and can get them any time I’d like Last edited by gallian93; 08-25-2011 at 10:04 AM.. |
08-25-2011, 09:51 AM | #2 |
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I seen this episode and thought the same thing. 50hp loss because of heat, crazy.
And im not ashamed to admit that I like the US version of Top Gear as well as the UK version.
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08-25-2011, 10:11 AM | #3 |
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I think it just makes for better episode doing it at night. The show does add a little drama. Engines hp Fluctuates depending on temp and humidity. So yes it is possible to see 50hp difference on high hp cars. Doubt one will notice 50hp on a 600+ enigine tho.
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08-25-2011, 10:23 AM | #5 |
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I would think the GT2 RS lost more than 50-60 hp if he was able to feel a big difference. From his reaction during that episode, it seemed like a big difference. But like Edjay said, perhaps they wanted more drama.
Porsche probably wasn't too happy with Tanner mentioning the power loss. That might have persuaded a few potential buyers to go look at the 458 Italia. Or wait for a track version of the 458. |
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08-25-2011, 10:40 AM | #6 | |
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08-25-2011, 11:02 AM | #7 | |
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So if you live in the Sahara, tough break. But if you live somewhere up in Montana or Idaho... With a given that most turbo cars nowadays automatically compensate for altitude with more boost, so power doesn't fall off up to, say, 6000 feet or so. Ah-h-h, a Montana blizzard. Time to play in your turbo car... Bruce |
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08-25-2011, 11:17 AM | #8 |
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makes sense, if it was super hot and humid that day, the GT2 could lose considerable hp and performance.
heat and elevation (colorado or long island?) will be in play with Turbo cars. In general anytime air intake variables that effect volume and temperature change it will have a greater effect on turbo cars than NA cars, simply b/c the idea of turbo cars, to suck in more air and add more fuel to create higher hp, uses much more air than NA cars. Also,high temperature will also effect the intercooler's core temperatures and cause the temperature of the air intake at the throttle to be higher than preferred, though the use of intercooler is still preferred in that case. I'm not quite sure when the heat soak will come in effect and be counter-productive to the alternative of not having a intercooler. |
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08-25-2011, 11:21 AM | #9 | |
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08-25-2011, 11:24 AM | #10 | |
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At high elevation, NA is stuck with what it can suck, whereas FI can increase the boost (again air charge temp problem).
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08-25-2011, 11:36 AM | #11 | |
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08-25-2011, 11:39 AM | #12 | |
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08-25-2011, 11:41 AM | #13 |
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Yes larger intercooler will cause the boost to be lower, BUT lower air temp = denser air. The thing I don't know is the relation between boost, temperature and density.. What I mean is, let say the ambient temp went to 40C from 20C. We put a bigger intercooler that will bring the temp back down to 20C.. Do we need a 2x bigger intercooler? If yes, is the boost half due to 2x larger intercooler? What happens to air density at the end?
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08-25-2011, 11:46 AM | #14 | |
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08-25-2011, 11:46 AM | #15 |
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08-26-2011, 02:33 PM | #16 | |
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08-26-2011, 02:49 PM | #17 | |
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However, no intercooler is 100% efficient. Not even in the laboratory. About 75% efficiency is as good as it gets. Drag racers get around this with liquid intercooling, stuffing the system with ice. Presto, temps at ambient or below with full boost and max timing. Bruce |
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08-26-2011, 03:02 PM | #18 |
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50hp in a car that makes 620+hp is ~8%, which isn't a huge variance given extreme conditions (I haven't watched the video so I can't comment on temps).
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