09 M3 Coupe vs 08 Carrera S

[portiadog]

I went to the dealership to walk the lot on a Sunday, check out the M3 coupe I had been eyeing, and I noticed that the Porsche Dealer (all in the same automall) had a 2008 Carrera S marked down from 92 to 72. Getting pretty close to the M3, right?

When I went to the dealership on Monday, I just had to test drive both. Although 7 or 8 grand isn't insignificant (and thats assuming I could deal the same amount off MSRP on the Porsche as I could on the M#- highly unlikely given the enormous markdown on the 911) but I thought that if there is that much of a difference, f'it, I'll spring for the 911. I couldn't have been more amazed at the difference between the 2.

When the salesman started the Porsche, I got all tingly. Why even put an audio system in a car like that? The ride was impressive as well. As I had read, I could really feel the a$$ end of the 911 pushing it through the turns, and the sound the engine made as it approached redline was simply glorious. The ride was incredibly tight, and of course the centerpiece of the dash, the giant tach, is the way a sports car should be. I was pretty sold.

I figured I would drive the M3, since thats really the car that I originally came to drive. It sounded pretty cool when it started, that tight, high revving v-8 hinting at its power, but not growling like the 911. We waited a few minutes, for the engine to warm up and the redline to increase from its cold 6500 rpm to its stated 8400. Then we hit the street.

I punched it right off the light, with the throttle bodies set to their fully open mode, and when my ear told me it was time to shift, I looked down at the tach to see I had another 2000 rpm left on the tach!. I put my foot back on the gas and was thrown back into the seat in a way that I've not felt except on a motorcycle. This car was equipped with the dealer installed aftermarket performance steering wheel. I powered that thing on, adjusted the tach indicator redline to 8000 rpm, and headed towards a winding road near the dealership. With the car already set to its most stiff suspension setting, I hit the turn as hard as I was comfortable in a car I'd only driven for 2 or 3 minutes. 0.80 lateral g's through the turn! Coming out of the turn I kept my eyes on the road and pegged the throttle until I could see the tach indicators on the steering wheel flash in my peripheral vision. Shift into third quickly, ease off the gas, shift into fourth, and start hitting the curves at a comfy 75. This car was more sure footed than the Porsche ever could have been. Sure, its kind of idiot proof, a corner taken too fast is received by a flashing light on the dash telling you that the car has taken the appropriate adjustments, so continue to mash the throttle and have fun. The motor more exhilarating. When we got back onto the main roads to head back t the dealership, I dialed the suspension back into comfort mode, dialed down the throttle bodies on the engine, and was crusing along in a something between a regular 3 series and the road racer I had just taken through the twisties.
The only thing the Porsche had on the M3 was its exhaust note, and the sex appeal. The technology of the M3 was far beyond that of the 911. It could do everything the 911 could do, do it better, and turn into a civilized daily driver if you wanted that too. The BMW Performance Steering Wheel is a little pricey, but what an awesome way to keep your eyes on the road while meticulously maximizing shifts, and the g-meter kind of makes it like driving in a video game, only in real life.

All of this isn't to say that I don't think the 911 isn't an awesome ride. And perhaps it is really more of a purists driving experience. I do think it is. But with the money I saved from buying a 911 S (assuming I was going to buy one which was not so aggressively marked down) I can have my awesome M3, and a 930 turbo from the mid 80's, which is in my opinion the best 911 body style of all time. And that car I know will be a true classic Porsche experience.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by portiadog

This car was more sure footed than the Porsche ever could have been. Sure, its kind of idiot proof, a corner taken too fast is received by a flashing light on the dash telling you that the car has taken the appropriate adjustments, so continue to mash the throttle and have fun. The motor more exhilarating.

I can have my awesome M3, and a 930 turbo from the mid 80's, which is in my opinion the best 911 body style of all time. And that car I know will be a true classic Porsche experience.

Glad you found what you feel works for you. That said, from your description you haven't had a lot of seat time in cars. You've made so many assumptions based on a test drive. Sex appeal?

The 930 will kill you (literally.) Yes, it will be a true classic Porsche experience.

[portiadog]

I can admit to not having a ton of seat time in Porsche's. But cars in general? I was fortunate to run a GNX, Typhoon, and Firehawk in the 1/4 mile in high school. (a girlfriend's father's cars.) My last weekend car was a 1931 Model A Coupe with a blown 392 hemi (6-71 Weiand slightly under-driven), and the car before that was a 67 GTO with the famous 400 tri-power. I would say that I'm very familiar with cars that can kill a disrespectful driver.

I definitely am making quite an extrapolation from just one test drive. Maybe with more time in the seat of both cars, I would feel differently. But in my limited time, the p-car's rear end felt a little less stable in the corners. My personal opinion is that I'd rather have a car thats a real handful and quite a challenge, or one that is no challenge at all. My impression of the S was that is was somewhere in between, and straight line acceleration did not feel any different. It did not give me the same feeling as the last Porsche I had driven, a 96 Carrera, which felt more like an old school sports car.

As for the sex appeal comment, I was simply stating that the 911 body shape is sexier then the M3, more appealing to the eyes.

[Nawaaz]

As long as you're happy with your decision, that's all that matters.

[portiadog]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

As long as you're happy with your decision, that's all that matters.

Thanks. I'm definitely happy, just sharing my $0.02 in the vs.

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by portiadog

Thanks. I'm definitely happy, just sharing my $0.02 in the vs.

Awesome! Did the dealer make you a great price?

[riyatch]

nice write up. i think you were spot on with some of your observations. i personally like the way the M3 looks.

[portiadog]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Awesome! Did the dealer make you a great price?

At the time I thought I got a fantastic price, but after reading some of the reviews on the dealer rec threads, I think I could have done a little bit better.

Thanks

[DiscoZ]

Originally Posted by portiadog

I can admit to not having a ton of seat time in Porsche's. But cars in general? I was fortunate to run a GNX, Typhoon, and Firehawk in the 1/4 mile in high school. (a girlfriend's father's cars.) My last weekend car was a 1931 Model A Coupe with a blown 392 hemi (6-71 Weiand slightly under-driven), and the car before that was a 67 GTO with the famous 400 tri-power. I would say that I'm very familiar with cars that can kill a disrespectful driver.

So, mostly straight line cars. Makes sense as I was unable to believe how you figured a 997C2S would always be less sure footed than a M3.

The 997C2S is the car that all others in its league are compared against. Just a look at popular track times will set the record straight on which one is an everyday sports car adaption and which one is a throughbred sports car.

That being said, I am glad you found what works for you.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by DiscoZ

So, mostly straight line cars. Makes sense as I was unable to believe how you figured a 997C2S would always be less sure footed than a M3.

The 997C2S is the car that all others in its league are compared against. Just a look at popular track times will set the record straight on which one is an everyday sports car adaption and which one is a throughbred sports car.

That being said, I am glad you found what works for you.

+1

Pretty much what I was trying to say in my 'round about way....

And it's too bad you made the wrong choice.

That superficial test drive couldn't tell you anything, unfortunately. But seriously, enjoy your new ride. The M3 is a great car.

[AMJ_77]

He liked the M3 more than the C2S, get over it. Different strokes for different folks (don't call me a fanboi, trust me I would lovveee to have that car.)

OP enjoy your car!

[GnokGnik]

The M3 is the best compromise of DD and Track Car; I don't think I know any other car that can do it better. That said, the 911 is an icon for most m3 drivers. It is mentioned in with the Ferrari's and yet still is understated enough to be a DD. It doesn't do the DD as well as a M3, but it more than makes up for it at the track.

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by portiadog

At the time I thought I got a fantastic price, but after reading some of the reviews on the dealer rec threads, I think I could have done a little bit better.

Thanks

Yeah, don't pay attention to what others paid since you already made your puchase. As long as you feel you got a pretty reasonable deal, I don't think you should be dissappointed.

[Montoya]

Many of us have gone through similar comparisons before our purchase. I think calling any of us fanboys is demeaning (which I have seen used quite often on Rennlist)- we are enthusiasts and I, like most of the BMW M3 owners posting here, are fans of both Porsche and BMW.

Ultimately the choice is personal. I also test drove both cars, I compared a 2007 C2S to the M3. Visceral impressions on the Porsche are amazing! The sound and feel are really direct and immediate. There is no doubt that you are driving a 'machine'. Of course this is where the M3 can't compare, it is much more refined, although when you are driving hard it comes close.

Performance I leave to official track tests by professionals- There are plenty of comparisons, we can all agree that the cars are close in performance (997.1 S and 997.2 non-S). I always like to point out the C&D comparison test at Laguna with the M3 DCT vs the Porsche 911 PDK. Of course many have argued that this test was not representative and point to the Nürburgring lap times as more representative. Again, the point is that they are very close in performance. Anyways, if anyone wants to start claiming Porsche superiority, my third cross shopping vehicle was a Z06 Corvette- enough said.

My decision came down to practicality, a true back seat and overall comfort. As a daily driver I need some all around comfort, and the M3 strikes a pretty compelling balance.

So let's stay on the enthusiast side of the discussion, they are both great cars!

[a burrito]

Glad to hear your liking the M3. Its a great ride.

Let me say this though, and yes I'm a Porsche fanboy but also a BMW and Mercedes fanboy!! Call me crazy, I love them all- on different days of the week though.

Porsche's are always going to be pretty plain jane if your looking for all the gadgets. Its more in the things you feel when driving where you know you have something seriously special in your hand. Such as the suspension, aerodynamics, the kinda metal they use, brakes, engine placement etc... I agree, you just won't find as many gadgets in any porsche like the M3 because it really doesn't need it- and I hope you never will. I do like them like that.

Enjoy your ride! and post pics pleeease

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by ISFail

Not in pure acceleratation.......did you not see the mboard race in this forum? M3 got manhandled!

Overall you're right, cars are close but 997 S is significantly faster!

He's talking about the 997.1S and 997.2 reg Carrera. I'd say the M3 is very similar in straight line performance with these two cars, edging them out in the top end. The 997.2 Carrera S, especially with PDK will for sure man handle the E9X M3.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

He's talking about the 997.1S and 997.2 reg Carrera. I'd say the M3 is very similar in straight line performance with these two cars, edging them out in the top end. The 997.2 Carrera S, especially with PDK will for sure man handle the E9X M3.

^+1.

Don't ask me why the Mk2 version should be so much quicker than the first one, but it is. I'm guess it's all to do with the introduction of Direct Injection and it's advantages it brings to the entire rev range but very few here would like to admit should a thing because their beloved M-Division hasn't adopted this technology.

Probably their opinion will change when they finally do.

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by footie

^+1.

Don't ask me why the Mk2 version should be so much quicker than the first one, but it is. I'm guess it's all to do with the introduction of Direct Injection and it's advantages it brings to the entire rev range but very few here would like to admit should a thing because their beloved M-Division hasn't adopted this technology.

Probably their opinion will change when they finally do.

Yeah it's sad the 335 had DI but M3 does not. I would imagine it would boost HP and TQ by 5-15 and fuel economy by 1-2mpg. It's impressive how fast it made the new Cayman S while providing 1mpg better fuel economy. Perhaps they didn't implement it due to the V8 being a chop of the M5 V10, which didn't use DI at the time.

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by ISFail

Not in pure acceleratation.......did you not see the mboard race in this forum? M3 got manhandled!

Overall you're right, cars are close but 997 S is significantly faster!

Umm ... if Im not mistaken THAT video is versus the NEW 997 S with PDK...A MUCH better car than the previous S.(in my opinion)

[MBdiesel]

Nice write up. Glad you found the car YOU like.

Im coming out of a 997 TT and I actually like the M3 just as much and in some cases more as a DD.

Enjoy.

MB

[portiadog]

I don't have an pics on hand of the M3, hopefully I will get some this weekend when we road trip over the smokies to see the in-laws for fathers day. In the mean time, here's some pics and a video of my last car, which was an absolute monster. 392 hemi from a 58 Chrysler, 6-71 blower (under-driven) holley 4bbl double pumper inside the faux FI top hat.

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and finally, my 67 GTO

[MeccaM3]

Originally Posted by Montoya

I always like to point out the C&D comparison test at Laguna with the M3 DCT vs the Porsche 911 PDK. Of course many have argued that this test was not representative and point to the Nürburgring lap times as more representative. Again, the point is that they are very close in performance. Anyways, if anyone wants to start claiming Porsche superiority, my third cross shopping vehicle was a Z06 Corvette- enough said.

You're being too polite Montoya. If we are talking about the same comparison video that I just googled it clearly displayed M3 "Winner" and Porsche "2nd Place" while the respective cars drove past. $100k budget? Get a real exotic....like a used 360 or a Murcielago.

Porsche enthusiast can huff and puff about how great their Porsche is OR they can remember that they are posting on a BMW enthusiast site, not Porsche. The Porsche falls short of being a great daily driver and falls short of being a true exotic.