Tire life at the track

kornykidd0 · 06-18-2012, 06:57 AM

I'm doing an HPDE this weekend and have a question for you guys regarding tire life. Obviously, tracking the car is going to speed up tire wear, but approximately by how much? I know it depends how you drive, I don't plan on kicking the rear out constantly or anything but i do want to push the car. I have 2 sets of wheels- the stockers with the contis (~90% tread life left) and some wider VMRs with much wider PS2s (f+r) but with much less tread- esp on the inside rear where it's getting close to the wearbars.

I'd like to use the ps2s both for the width and extra grip But I'm slightly nervous of whether the tires will be completely run down to the cords or not during/after this event. I'm fine using the tires up, I just hope they can pull the entire day+drive home. I don't know how long I'll actually be on the track for, I assume a few hours. The event is at NJMP if that helps for those who have been on it. So what say you guys? Is it worth the risk for more grip? Honestly I'd rather use the ps2s so I can just swap my stockers back on if they go and avoid having to shell out for new tires right away, but I don't want that to happen during the event...

**ben@tirerack** · 06-18-2012, 08:07 AM

Running the PS2 with the shallower tread is probably the better plan. The shorter tread blocks will have less squirm, so there is less chance of overheating them.

With that said, it is always possible to run a tire down to the cords on the track. The biggest risk tends to be the outside front tire, which gets punished if you go into a corner too fast and wind up scrubbing off speed through understeer. In cornering, try to stick with the "Slow in, fast out" mantra.

aus · 06-18-2012, 10:18 AM

What Ben said.

kornykidd0 · 06-18-2012, 10:36 AM

Awesome thanks for the advice. I think that's what I'm going to do. I'll just need to keep a close eye on the tire wear throughout the day. Since its an HPDE, and my first time really pushing the car on a track I'm sure I won't be punishing the tires to the same extent as an experienced driver during a race.

**ben@tirerack** · 06-18-2012, 05:08 PM

Glad if that is helpful. Definitely an excellent idea to monitor the wear as often as you can. If you can get your hands on a pyrometer to measure tire temps across the tire, that is an excellent tool to help with fine tuning your setup. Heat = work = wear.

The more even you can keep the temperature across the tire and from front to back, the better life you will get from them because you are spreading the work across more area.

If you can't get a pyromenter or don't want to mess with it, no worries. Just inspecting for wear/cords/blisters/chunking when you come in each session should keep you safe.

kornykidd0 · 06-18-2012, 10:06 PM

I may be able to sneak a laser thermometer from work, maybe. I just really want them to last through the weekend. The M is my weekend car so miles are fairly reasonable, but I bought the tires used. The wear was heavier than I initially thought in the rears though. The front tires are in good condition but the rears have some pretty strong camber wear on the insides. Previous owner stated they had ~4000 miles, and I've put probably another 1500 on them. I'll be watching closely, but as long as I have enough life to drive normally on the highway after the track for the remainder of the weekend I'll be ok. Disappointed they didn't last nearly long enough...but not terribly upset. Just be back to the smaller contis until I wear them out and switch to the hopefully better Michelin PSS.

Porschefile · 06-18-2012, 10:22 PM

Good advice from Ben. One thing to add: it is unlikely you will cord the inside on track unless you have a bunch of negative camber. Stock aligned cars tend to cord the outside first if your pressures are close to right.

kornykidd0 · 06-18-2012, 10:42 PM

^good to know thanks! My car is still on stock alignment, or as close as can be after 4 months of driving. The wheels are a bit higher offset though and half an inch wider f+r, and the tires are 265/295 vs the stock contis ( think they are 255/265) so that may throw the alignment off a little bit.

As long as the tires aren't chunking/blistering/cording they are 'alright' to drive on in dry weather even when pretty bald though right? Should just be like slicks, just stay out of the car in rain, no? And replace ASAP I'd assume. But still 'safe'...

Porschefile · 06-18-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornykidd0

^good to know thanks! My car is still on stock alignment, or as close as can be after 4 months of driving. The wheels are a bit higher offset though and half an inch wider f+r, and the tires are 265/295 vs the stock contis ( think they are 255/265) so that may throw the alignment off a little bit.

As long as the tires aren't chunking/blistering/cording they are 'alright' to drive on in dry weather even when pretty bald though right? Should just be like slicks, just stay out of the car in rain, no? And replace ASAP I'd assume. But still 'safe'...

IMO PS2's are "safe" in dry weather as long as cord isn't showing.

**ben@tirerack** · 06-19-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porschefile

IMO PS2's are "safe" in dry weather as long as cord isn't showing.

+1. When they're worn down but not worn through, they're actually more like slicks, which is great for dry track.

06-18-2012, 06:57 AM	#1
kornykidd0 Private 3 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yardley PA iTrader: (1)	Tire life at the track I'm doing an HPDE this weekend and have a question for you guys regarding tire life. Obviously, tracking the car is going to speed up tire wear, but approximately by how much? I know it depends how you drive, I don't plan on kicking the rear out constantly or anything but i do want to push the car. I have 2 sets of wheels- the stockers with the contis (~90% tread life left) and some wider VMRs with much wider PS2s (f+r) but with much less tread- esp on the inside rear where it's getting close to the wearbars. I'd like to use the ps2s both for the width and extra grip But I'm slightly nervous of whether the tires will be completely run down to the cords or not during/after this event. I'm fine using the tires up, I just hope they can pull the entire day+drive home. I don't know how long I'll actually be on the track for, I assume a few hours. The event is at NJMP if that helps for those who have been on it. So what say you guys? Is it worth the risk for more grip? Honestly I'd rather use the ps2s so I can just swap my stockers back on if they go and avoid having to shell out for new tires right away, but I don't want that to happen during the event...
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06-18-2012, 08:07 AM	#2
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor 87 Rep 964 Posts Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN iTrader: (0)	Running the PS2 with the shallower tread is probably the better plan. The shorter tread blocks will have less squirm, so there is less chance of overheating them. With that said, it is always possible to run a tire down to the cords on the track. The biggest risk tends to be the outside front tire, which gets punished if you go into a corner too fast and wind up scrubbing off speed through understeer. In cornering, try to stick with the "Slow in, fast out" mantra. __________________ _______________________________________________ I have accepted a new position at Tire Rack and am no longer in the sales department. gary@tirerack.com is available to assist with M3 questions.
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06-18-2012, 10:18 AM	#3
aus Major General 892 Rep 9,032 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	What Ben said. __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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06-18-2012, 10:36 AM	#4
kornykidd0 Private 3 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yardley PA iTrader: (1)	Awesome thanks for the advice. I think that's what I'm going to do. I'll just need to keep a close eye on the tire wear throughout the day. Since its an HPDE, and my first time really pushing the car on a track I'm sure I won't be punishing the tires to the same extent as an experienced driver during a race.
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06-18-2012, 05:08 PM	#5
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor 87 Rep 964 Posts Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN iTrader: (0)	Glad if that is helpful. Definitely an excellent idea to monitor the wear as often as you can. If you can get your hands on a pyrometer to measure tire temps across the tire, that is an excellent tool to help with fine tuning your setup. Heat = work = wear. The more even you can keep the temperature across the tire and from front to back, the better life you will get from them because you are spreading the work across more area. If you can't get a pyromenter or don't want to mess with it, no worries. Just inspecting for wear/cords/blisters/chunking when you come in each session should keep you safe. __________________ _______________________________________________ I have accepted a new position at Tire Rack and am no longer in the sales department. gary@tirerack.com is available to assist with M3 questions.
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06-18-2012, 10:06 PM	#6
kornykidd0 Private 3 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yardley PA iTrader: (1)	I may be able to sneak a laser thermometer from work, maybe. I just really want them to last through the weekend. The M is my weekend car so miles are fairly reasonable, but I bought the tires used. The wear was heavier than I initially thought in the rears though. The front tires are in good condition but the rears have some pretty strong camber wear on the insides. Previous owner stated they had ~4000 miles, and I've put probably another 1500 on them. I'll be watching closely, but as long as I have enough life to drive normally on the highway after the track for the remainder of the weekend I'll be ok. Disappointed they didn't last nearly long enough...but not terribly upset. Just be back to the smaller contis until I wear them out and switch to the hopefully better Michelin PSS.
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06-18-2012, 10:22 PM	#7
Porschefile Major 59 Rep 1,250 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tennessee iTrader: (7)	Good advice from Ben. One thing to add: it is unlikely you will cord the inside on track unless you have a bunch of negative camber. Stock aligned cars tend to cord the outside first if your pressures are close to right.
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06-18-2012, 10:42 PM	#8
kornykidd0 Private 3 Rep 94 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yardley PA iTrader: (1)	^good to know thanks! My car is still on stock alignment, or as close as can be after 4 months of driving. The wheels are a bit higher offset though and half an inch wider f+r, and the tires are 265/295 vs the stock contis ( think they are 255/265) so that may throw the alignment off a little bit. As long as the tires aren't chunking/blistering/cording they are 'alright' to drive on in dry weather even when pretty bald though right? Should just be like slicks, just stay out of the car in rain, no? And replace ASAP I'd assume. But still 'safe'...
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