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      08-26-2014, 03:37 PM   #89
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2:20 versus 1:52 is too quick of a closing speed to me, but if that 2:20 driver is extremely safe and aware and giving points, I'd rather have that car in my group than some nut job that can run the pace but is unsafe and unaware. I see 1:48 cars on track at TWS along with 2:10 cars. That is a little less gap, but you better know you are the 2:10 guy and watch your mirrors. The guys that irritate me are the ones that just got promoted that day and proceed to immediately grid first. Puhhleeeze, grid further back.
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      08-26-2014, 03:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Jon H View Post
Clearly. Le terrible.

What the hell was Cody driving....a miata?
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      08-26-2014, 03:40 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
2:20 versus 1:52 is too quick of a closing speed to me, but if that 2:20 driver is extremely safe and aware and giving points, I'd rather have that car in my group than some nut job that can run the pace but is unsafe and unaware. I see 1:48 cars on track at TWS along with 2:10 cars. That is a little less gap, but you better know you are the 2:10 guy and watch your mirrors. The guys that irritate me are the ones that just got promoted that day and proceed to immediately grid first. Puhhleeeze, grid further back.
1:52 on that configuration on that hot day is stupid fast, basically almost cup car fast. I'd probably have a hard time get sub 1:56 with fresh R6s on that configuration.
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      08-26-2014, 04:42 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon H
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiff View Post
Recently at Buttonwillow with SpeedDistrict. Great group except there were a ton of offs because no one likes to use warm up laps.

Ran Apex Arc 8 18x10 with BFG R1 in 275/35-18. Loved it. RBF600 fluid and Pagid Yellows in the front. Zero fade.
No offense, but in the earlier part of the day, you were holding up people (multiple complaints) on the track. I understand that Advanced group doesn't require a point by, but it's nice to still do it so the passer knows that you see them. Later in the day, I noticed you were pointing people by. Well, at least me. Just make sure you check those mirrors.

Overall, a great day. Advanced group had a lot of people there, some that really didn't belong. I have a picture of the times for a 12pm session and there was 3 cars with a 2:19+ as their fast lap. There was also an AMG Merc that signed up for Advanced I'm guessing because of his car and was obviously a n00b. Braking in the middle of Riverside doing what felt like 50mph. Ugh.
No offense taken at all.

The biggest thing to understand at the track is that people have many different mindsets and goals. Some like to attack the track for the hottest lap time the first session out.

We know who they are and what happens.. They go off or something breaks. And sometimes they are just really fast. That doesn't qualify them as experienced. Anyone with real experience knows you warm up first. No one would bat an eye at you pacing yourself until temps are up with experienced drivers or people who have done any formal track education.

The topic hard to address is if you divide groups based on time or experience. These were divided by experience. Which realistically shouldn't mean that people running 2:20s shouldn't be in advanced.

It's unfortunate and I can see why someone would get upset with me not pointing them by in the first two laps of the first half of the day. I'm not going to say I know their track-resume, but it would be safe to assume some things.

I ALWAYS point by anyone I know is approaching fast- but it was my first time with speed district and took a few sessions to gauge how antsy everyone was.

Coming out of pits and not running at 10/10ths and not pointing you by...sorry being "that guy".

Also, by the second half of the day there were red-banded(advanced) people running in beginner which REQUIRES point by... And they were passing without them. Just another thing to note- maybe they were the ones complaining about me too? Great learning environment for the people relying on a point by.


Either way- I'll definitely run with Speed District again, obviously with more awareness of the driver's expectations. I thoroughly enjoyed the amount of track time and was a generally great group of people!
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      08-26-2014, 04:47 PM   #93
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20 to 30 second a lap differential is huge but if guys are people you know and are aware you close fast it's usually not an issue. What I hate is guys that park it in the corners and don't give passes up immediately. Ran an open track day last week, all 1 group and was fine.
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      08-26-2014, 05:50 PM   #94
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Spiff - I just want to make sure I understand what you posted. If you are running tires that require 2-3 laps to heat up (or whatever reason) and I am not, I expect a point if I am in your mirrors and was not the last time you looked. Why does it matter if it is lap 2 of the first day? In the summer especially, my best laps will be early when it is cool. I am not waiting for the afternoon heat to do my best. If you want to run that session at 7/10, go for it, but my tires are hot after one out lap. If you are purposefully not pointing cars by and there is no yellow flag, that is a problem. Is that what you posted? It sure seemed like you were saying that you were playing traffic police.
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      08-26-2014, 05:56 PM   #95
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That's cool they let you win hpde! All I get is checkered flag and a few black ones now and then.
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      08-26-2014, 06:00 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
2:20 versus 1:52 is too quick of a closing speed to me, but if that 2:20 driver is extremely safe and aware and giving points, I'd rather have that car in my group than some nut job that can run the pace but is unsafe and unaware. I see 1:48 cars on track at TWS along with 2:10 cars. That is a little less gap, but you better know you are the 2:10 guy and watch your mirrors. The guys that irritate me are the ones that just got promoted that day and proceed to immediately grid first. Puhhleeeze, grid further back.
Slowest guys always tend to grid first. I end up just going out last because I hate waiting in the pits to go out. Waste my go pro batteries and memory? No thank you.
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      08-26-2014, 06:31 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Oh c'mon, who here that's in an instructor/advanced group doesn't have some 'racing' going on during their sessions?
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      08-26-2014, 06:50 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid
Spiff - I just want to make sure I understand what you posted. If you are running tires that require 2-3 laps to heat up (or whatever reason) and I am not, I expect a point if I am in your mirrors and was not the last time you looked. Why does it matter if it is lap 2 of the first day? In the summer especially, my best laps will be early when it is cool. I am not waiting for the afternoon heat to do my best. If you want to run that session at 7/10, go for it, but my tires are hot after one out lap. If you are purposefully not pointing cars by and there is no yellow flag, that is a problem. Is that what you posted? It sure seemed like you were saying that you were playing traffic police.
Not playing traffic police at all.

I understand how weather can heat things up faster, completely, and some prefer running faster when it's cooler. That's fine-

I'm just commenting on previous posts and a response to my initial post about me holding people up, certainly not on purpose.

Funny thing is all this talk about advanced group open passing yet people getting pissed waiting for me to point them by, and slower drivers in the way.

The point of advanced is that experienced drivers know how to not only pass people in an open environment, but to understand that in an open-passing scenario you STAY ON YOUR LINE so the passer can make their own move based on your previously established lines(and not have to worry about a pass because their line should remain consistent). So it should be of no surprise where I am going and my speed shouldn't be a problem, and should allow the passer to mozy on by at their pace.

Clearly, there were drivers that were misplaced in some of the groups, that's a problem that will always occur.

Ludicrously slower speeds mid-turn and obviously misplaced drivers certainly makes for a dangerous track environment.

Again, there was a learning curve for me knowing how the drivers of advanced group would run with this organization, and there is clearly still one for some of the people in it. I'm not trying to be a dick or that guy forcing other people to not get around me. I hate those people too, trust me-.

It can be a tough situation to judge sometimes as well because personally it can be motivating having someone creep on you, and sometimes i don't want to pass someone because maybe I want to try and hang with them consistently (and sometimes they appreciate the continuing proximity too).

It all boils down to mindsets and goals, some people never ever want to be held up for a split second because every lap is a hot lap and heaven forbid if they have to work for a pass- and some can take a deep breath and use their experience to hone their line, not their speed (both of which should improve simultaneously).

It probably wouldn't hurt to have more than a minute conversation 30 seconds before gridding about the expectations and guidelines of the run groups.
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      08-26-2014, 08:56 PM   #99
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I saw your car last week when I was leaving the car wash in Santa Clara. It looks fantastic! I was going to stop and say hi but I didn't see anyone by the car.
awesome pics!
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      08-26-2014, 09:06 PM   #100
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Aspen Motorsports park/Woody Creek last summer. I don't seem to have many decent track photos of the car
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      08-26-2014, 09:19 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by MilehighM3
Aspen Motorsports park/Woody Creek last summer. I don't seem to have many decent track photos of the car
I'll never get tired of seeing a sedan putting in work!
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      08-26-2014, 10:27 PM   #102
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mine are permanent...because race car
Permanent, you say? ...REAL racers just scratch their number into the door with a key.
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      08-26-2014, 10:48 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by radiantm3
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
That's cool they let you win hpde! All I get is checkered flag and a few black ones now and then.
I have one of these puppies in the post.
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      08-27-2014, 11:01 AM   #104
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I'll never get tired of seeing a sedan putting in work!
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      08-27-2014, 11:39 AM   #105
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Here is a couple from VIR in July, there was no more than 10 cars on the entire track at one time.
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      08-27-2014, 11:45 AM   #106
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For the E46 M3...I kind of like both of these.



It looks like you and I think alike about turn 10.

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      08-27-2014, 11:53 AM   #107
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Permanent, you say? ...REAL racers just scratch their number into the door with a key.
well let me stop by the store on the way home and get me a grinder
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      08-27-2014, 12:39 PM   #108
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      08-27-2014, 01:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
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Fully agree with you on the point by in advanced group. It's nice to get one going into a turn so there's no question if the car in front saw you or not.

I was there at the event in advanced and had a great time. Lots of track time at Speed District events My suggestion to make the event even better would be to put a lap time cutoff for each group. This would help avoid 50mph cars in Riverside.

Anyway, back on topic... Here is one of my favorite track picture, trying to explore the best line through the corkscrew. For the record, this was not the best line Being serious now, braked a bit too late over the bump just before the turn, ABS ice mode kicked in, ran out of braking room, and here is the result...
looks like you studied the wrong video for this track day. was it this one?

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      08-27-2014, 01:32 PM   #110
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Aspen Motorsports park/Woody Creek last summer. I don't seem to have many decent track photos of the car
that looks like a canyon drive - lots of nature off track
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