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      10-03-2018, 10:55 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3MPH1S View Post
I know this isn't really what you're asking, but I figured I'd include it as a fun info tidbit for everyone

Here's a thread from the coding subforum that shows how traction control is calculated between different models - specifically post #8 (and refer back to post #1)

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...light=euro+mdm

I will summarize shortly here:

There is some sort of equation that isn't known to non-BMW engineers, but what we do know is that the car is measuring coefficient of friction in some way and there are values assigned to each chassis as to when to engage traction control.

For M3_UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2_M:
wert_00: !(E90+(S65B40+US,S65B44+!US+MAN_UMF_GTS),(E92,E93) +S65B40)
wert_01: E90 + S65B40 + US
wert_02: E92 + S65B40 + !US + !MAN_UMF_GTS
wert_03: E92 + S65B40 + US
wert_04: E93 + S65B40 + !US
wert_05: E93 + S65B40 + US
wert_06: E92 + S65B40 + !US + MAN_UMF_GTS
wert_07: E90 + S65B44 + !US + MAN_UMF_GTS

Here are the coefficient of friction that are associated with each value:

wert_00: 2.5
wert_01: 4.09375
wert_02: 2.09375
wert_03: 3.296875
wert_04: 3.09375
wert_05: 4.484375
wert_06: 2.09375
wert_07: 2.09375

It was interesting to me just how much the US E93 got shafted on traction control compared to Euro E92
(You can change the Wert Number in the coding. It's on the same page as the Euro MDM setting. I switched my E90 to Wert_02 and traction control got less intrusive. As far as we know, the least amount of traction control that you can have is, switching to Euro MDM and changing Wert to Wert_02. I ran at the track with traction control on for 4 years, so I experimented quite a bit with it.)
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      10-03-2018, 10:58 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3MPH1S View Post
I know this isn't really what you're asking, but I figured I'd include it as a fun info tidbit for everyone

Here's a thread from the coding subforum that shows how traction control is calculated between different models - specifically post #8 (and refer back to post #1)

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...light=euro+mdm

I will summarize shortly here:

There is some sort of equation that isn't known to non-BMW engineers, but what we do know is that the car is measuring coefficient of friction in some way and there are values assigned to each chassis as to when to engage traction control.

For M3_UEBERSTEUERN_MUE_1_2_M:
wert_00: !(E90+(S65B40+US,S65B44+!US+MAN_UMF_GTS),(E92,E93) +S65B40)
wert_01: E90 + S65B40 + US
wert_02: E92 + S65B40 + !US + !MAN_UMF_GTS
wert_03: E92 + S65B40 + US
wert_04: E93 + S65B40 + !US
wert_05: E93 + S65B40 + US
wert_06: E92 + S65B40 + !US + MAN_UMF_GTS
wert_07: E90 + S65B44 + !US + MAN_UMF_GTS

Here are the coefficient of friction that are associated with each value:

wert_00: 2.5
wert_01: 4.09375
wert_02: 2.09375
wert_03: 3.296875
wert_04: 3.09375
wert_05: 4.484375
wert_06: 2.09375
wert_07: 2.09375

It was interesting to me just how much the US E93 got shafted on traction control compared to Euro E92
(You can change the Wert Number in the coding. It's on the same page as the Euro MDM setting. I switched my E90 to Wert_02 and traction control got less intrusive. As far as we know, the least amount of traction control that you can have is, switching to Euro MDM and changing Wert to Wert_02. I ran at the track with traction control on for 4 years, so I experimented quite a bit with it.)
Yep, I just did it about a month ago and it made a very noticeable difference
Actually, the biggest difference was that the car doesn't interfere when driving over uneven terrain anymore
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      10-03-2018, 11:18 AM   #311
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@driftflo, is there any benefit to over-filling the differential with oil?

I can see a positive being better cooling, and negatives being more weight, and a little more resistance. Is either one better than the other?
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      10-08-2018, 05:14 AM   #312
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driftflo,
What is your best config for track using with zf lsd unit (M5 E39)? Thanks.

And one more question.

If I go with stock clutches but with 30 degree ramps instead of stock 45 and near 10kg preload, will it be good? Or totally shit?

What can you say about racingdiffs.com clutches?

Last edited by RomanK; 10-11-2018 at 11:16 AM..
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      10-11-2018, 05:00 PM   #313
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i'm curious about your impressions on the os giken - i'm planning to swap to this on my evo, swapping from a 1.5-way cusco to, probably, a 1.1-way osg.

you said it felt like it hardly locked at all, due to the negative preload spring set up - this is kind of what i'm hoping for on decel. on accel though, i may try steeper cam angles/shallower ramp angles to get the diff to be a little more aggressive. i don't know what the standard is but i'll probably go one step up from that, given your responses, albeit a completely different setup. i think awd can handle 1-way/open style diffs a little better since they already have a good amount of stability, and have enough accel grip to handle a more aggressively locking diff in the rear, since the fronts will claw forward
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      10-12-2018, 03:41 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
@driftflo, is there any benefit to over-filling the differential with oil?

I can see a positive being better cooling, and negatives being more weight, and a little more resistance.
i would agree!


Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Is either one better than the other?
overfilling is hard to do when the diff is in the car. a slight amount to much and then quickly screw in the above screw should definitly be ok and better that filling too few.
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      10-12-2018, 03:49 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
driftflo,
What is your best config for track using with zf lsd unit (M5 E39)? Thanks.
4 clutchpacks, drilled gt clutches, special preload spring that fits this setup and track racing requirements, drexler ramps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
If I go with stock clutches but with 30 degree ramps instead of stock 45 and near 10kg preload, will it be good?
no


Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
What can you say about racingdiffs.com clutches?
nothing. i prefer using the stuff used by ricardo, hewland, xtrac, drexler, amg, bmw motorsports, porsche, ...
might be a little more expensive but you are on the safe side.

if you can provide a detailled QM spec sheet with all material, machining, tolerance and surface treatment information i can compare it with the ones i use.
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      10-13-2018, 01:57 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
(You can change the Wert Number in the coding. It's on the same page as the Euro MDM setting. I switched my E90 to Wert_02 and traction control got less intrusive. As far as we know, the least amount of traction control that you can have is, switching to Euro MDM and changing Wert to Wert_02. I ran at the track with traction control on for 4 years, so I experimented quite a bit with it.)
what exactly is Wert_02? code name for euro mdm, or another setting under euro mdm?
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      10-13-2018, 03:41 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
what exactly is Wert_02? code name for euro mdm, or another setting under euro mdm?
The name Wert_02 is simply the name of the setting. The important number is the 2.09375 that it stands for. That’s a coefficient of friction number that the computer uses to calculate how DSC will act. Lower allows the car more leeway, and higher ends up being more restrictive on the car’s movements.

This is not “under” Euro MDM. There’s a page that has several settings that deal with DSC. It’s simply one of the DSC settings that can be changed. In fact, “Euro MDM” isn’t really a “thing” either. There’s another setting on that page that is labeled “MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA”. And the settings can either be Aktiv or Nicht_Aktiv. It was discovered that when USA mode was active, the car was more restrictive. When people turned USA mode to “nicht_aktiv” and saw the car get less restrictive, they started calling it Euro MDM. BMW simply put an extra cautious layer of nannies for the lawsuit-happy USA market.
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      10-30-2018, 03:39 PM   #318
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Hello,

Who knows the part number of Porsche ZF diff clutches which can fits to E39 M5 ZF lsd core?

I found the number for 188 ZF diff but can't find for 210mm ZF core.

Thanks.
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      10-30-2018, 04:02 PM   #319
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which porsche ever had the m5e39 clutchsize?
and if a part was never used in any porsche there will be no porsche partnumber ;-)
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      10-30-2018, 04:45 PM   #320
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driftflo
Which clutches I can buy to make it working long?

As I remember you have the kits to make it with OEM charateristics and other way is to have 4 clutchpacks inside. Can you remind?

I need to rebuild my m5 e39 lsd core.
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      11-02-2018, 01:29 PM   #321
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yes, i have OE clutches, improved clutches and plug 'n play rebuild kits!
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      11-02-2018, 01:37 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
The name Wert_02 is simply the name of the setting. The important number is the 2.09375 that it stands for. That’s a coefficient of friction number that the computer uses to calculate how DSC will act. Lower allows the car more leeway, and higher ends up being more restrictive on the car’s movements.

This is not “under” Euro MDM. There’s a page that has several settings that deal with DSC. It’s simply one of the DSC settings that can be changed. In fact, “Euro MDM” isn’t really a “thing” either. There’s another setting on that page that is labeled “MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA”. And the settings can either be Aktiv or Nicht_Aktiv. It was discovered that when USA mode was active, the car was more restrictive. When people turned USA mode to “nicht_aktiv” and saw the car get less restrictive, they started calling it Euro MDM. BMW simply put an extra cautious layer of nannies for the lawsuit-happy USA market.
Lawsuit-happy, or full of dumbasses who don't use winter tires?
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      11-04-2018, 05:50 PM   #323
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Quote:
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Lawsuit-happy, or full of dumbasses who don't use winter tires?
hehe----I don't think bad driving is limited to wintery conditions! Plenty of crappy driving to be found on warm dry roads!!
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      11-04-2018, 08:04 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Lawsuit-happy, or full of dumbasses who don't use winter tires?
What are these “winter tires” you speak of?
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      12-21-2018, 12:24 PM   #325
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Incredibly valuable thread and information from driftflo

Should be stickied IMO
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      01-24-2019, 12:28 AM   #326
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Do you lighten the LSD case by machining the "O" holes in the ZF unit to the long rectangles in your pic? How much weight does that save?

I've got the parts...just need to Machine the ring gear holes to 14mm, assemble and install. Excited!
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      01-24-2019, 03:33 AM   #327
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not really much weight is saved. i do not do this machining anymore as it makes the unit more expensive and it is still not as good and light as a drexler setup with all the lightweight options it offers.
so i use zf based units as low budget entry level lsd units and for customers that want a better, lighter, more durable, higher performing unit i use the drexler hardware.
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      01-24-2019, 08:09 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
not really much weight is saved. i do not do this machining anymore as it makes the unit more expensive and it is still not as good and light as a drexler setup with all the lightweight options it offers.
so i use zf based units as low budget entry level lsd units and for customers that want a better, lighter, more durable, higher performing unit i use the drexler hardware.
Maybe I missed it but how much lighter is the Drexler?
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      01-24-2019, 09:53 AM   #329
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~1.0 to 1.5kg lighter... depends on setup and parts that are installed.
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      01-26-2019, 06:46 PM   #330
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