Buy 2 Classics or 1 F80

[203E90]

Hello fine folks. I have a little bit of a story but would love your advice. I'm sure you are able to comment in this forum with knowledge because you did something right in life to afford these beautiful machines and enjoy them so I'm loooking to barrow that knowledge and experience. To save you from reading my life story I'll start with my main question.

I had a budget of $45-50k for an F80 M3 while also starting my own business with more of my own cash funds. The F80 would be the face of the business (car detailing). While reaching out to a potentional partnering business, the owner was selling his personal E46 M3 for a great price then I started looking through his collection and he had a few E92 M3s at great prices. I could purchase a decent F80 for $50k and probably even 40k in the near future or I could buy both an E46 and E92 from this dealer for around 35k if we dont negotiate and have 2 very iconic M3s that are full of character. This would give my business a little more character and content for the social media and local promotion plus I'll have 2 amazing cars.

Built in to the budget is $10k in preventative maintenance for whatever vehicle(s) I choose. The E46 and E90s all have 100% of their maintanence record, recalls, and additional work documented like the E46 subframe reinforcement and E90 throttle accuators addressed. I would have to split that $10k across 2 vehicles in this case but the 2 I am looking at appear to need nothing. I need to verify the last valve adjustments on them. Thats it though.

Should I go with the newer toy or 2 older and cheaper classics, one of which probably being a daily?



Ok the back story.

I've been hooked on BMW since I bought my first E90 (325) in my early 20s and currently enjoying my 2nd E90 (335). A couple of years ago I drove an F82 and loved it. Im partial to the low end brute force of twin turbos and turbo cars in general and it had decent interior upgrades over my E90 but some how, it still felt like a sterilized car. I know if I pushed it too hard on the street it would still try to kill me but not like an E46 or E90 M3.

If anyone is military or law enforcement, it felt like going to the range with perfectly clean weapons with clean targets and just knocking them out no problem vs clearing a house or assaulting an objective with your squad and everyone making it out with a story to tell. LOL I know im rambling but yeah. After all of that, I still really wanted the F80/82 and decided thats what I'm going to get when the times right.

Well now at 31, the time is right. Im in the Army National Guard and currently deployed but I make good money in my civilian job. I've been paid by both the Army and my civilian job last year so instead of the low 6 figures I expected to make, I made a decent amount more. I've been browsing and prices are in my budget for the F80. I dont plan on financing so its a good chunk of cash for me to give up but I can do it without hurting my finances. Also with the funds I can make availible (currently in investments not my checking account) I'm using to start a mobile car detailing business and ultimately plan to make that my full time income. I will be using my personal vehicles as representation for my work, social media content, and to interact within the automotive community.
I've already been doing this as a paid hobby in my neighborhood and simply detailing my 335 and going to local events got me a decent amount of work before I deployed mid last year. I wasnt advertising or anything, just curous people wondering how I kept my car so clean everywhere I went. It wasn't even that spectacular in my eyes but then I started taking it serious and now its a registered business.

While I love the flash/curb appeal and overall comfort and performance of the F80 (and yeah I find it just as comfortable as my E90 with sport package so take that with a grain of salt) It doesn't have the character of the E46 and E92. The E46s I drove felt like light, small, raw, precision instruments, with true feed back from the steering, throttle input/response, and chasis. The E92 M3s I drove were just insane. Getting a V8 up in the power band that high and it having that precise control, even though I felt the weight in it but then still driving around light to light almost like a regular car. Incredible and most of all on both of these THE SOUNDS. S55 sound horrible but I can live with it.

Im pretty sure Im convinced that im getting the E46 and E92 M3s and rewarding myself with the F80 or even G80 WHEN my business takes off. Gotta have faith in myself lol. I've been getting a lot of accidental attention since my website went live for testing.

I appreciate you if you hvae made it this far. What would you guys pick?

[pbonsalb]

in your situation, I’d buy the E46 and E92 for $35k. You then have 2 cars to shine up and park outside the detailing business as advertisement. And you can daily drive both.

[203E90]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

in your situation, I’d buy the E46 and E92 for $35k. You then have 2 cars to shine up and park outside the detailing business as advertisement. And you can daily drive both.

I think that would be the best route as well. It saves me 15-25K, builds a good business relationship, accomplishes the original goal if not exceeds it and Im sure I will enjoy switching between a high revving I6, twin turbo I6, and a screaming V8.

[amrazM]

buy an e92 and put the rest of the money into your business?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

in your situation, I’d buy the E46 and E92 for $35k. You then have 2 cars to shine up and park outside the detailing business as advertisement. And you can daily drive both.

Exactly

Besides, two cars have twice the physical presence of the F80.

Also, the F80 will continue decreasing in price whereas the E46 and E9X are pretty stable. And nothing stops you from getting an F8X down the road!

[BimmerRookie]

If you really want two, get the E46 and E92. If maintenance is done or isn't necessary, this would be the dream. It doesn't take much for these cars to stand out! Most people don't even realize that these cars are more than a decade old. Both chassis have so well.

However, I think it would be smarter to get the E92, invest in the classic tasteful cosmetic mods (for the detailing business primarily, would help attract a larger audience), and save the rest for personal/business/maintenance.

[203E90]

Thanks everyone. Seems like the consensus is E92. My personal motto from the start has been "just because you can don't mean you have to"

I can get both the the E46 and E92 and do maintenance and still have personal savings and business cash BUT all of you have good points and I've seen tastefully modded E92s roll up to events and blow away crowds. That S65 sound is special. The stance, presence, and allure it's different.

To be honest I'm still kind of shocked that these things are comfortably within my reach now. I can do it the right way. So check for the E92. Sold.

The F80 or whatever new shinny M toy comes after can be the celebration purchase.

[203E90]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Exactly

Besides, two cars have twice the physical presence of the F80.

Also, the F80 will continue decreasing in price whereas the E46 and E9X are pretty stable. And nothing stops you from getting an F8X down the road!

Very true. F80 has a little more to go before it bottoms out. I love it but I'm realizing it's not the bang for multipurpose buck I'm looking for where 2 M3s, legends of the time, could check so many boxes.

[Ab28]

For business purposes, I don't think you need any personal car to promote and market. You'll need something like a Ford Transit van. If you had a physical location where customers were walking through, then maybe.

The results and testimonials will speak for themselves.

Leave the investment accounts alone. Let the money earn something. Loan rates are still so cheap I can't understand why you'd liquidate to pay cash (even less wise if the account is taxable and you have gains)

A 4% auto loan is basically free money and if you really HATE having a payment you can always pay it off.

I wish you the best of luck.

[BimmerRookie]

Also, I feel that since you're coming from the E9X gen 3-series, you'll appreciate the E92 that much more. IMO, people new to the brand have less of an appreciation of what the older gen M's have to offer. They'll never get it.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but if you do get an E92, get a good one and take care of it, it will reward you!

The F8X is fantastic no doubt, but it lacks soul and character.

*edit: the F8X also sounds like a lawnmower

[203E90]

Originally Posted by Ab28

For business purposes, I don't think you need any personal car to promote and market. You'll need something like a Ford Transit van. If you had a physical location where customers were walking through, then maybe.

The results and testimonials will speak for themselves.

Leave the investment accounts alone. Let the money earn something. Loan rates are still so cheap I can't understand why you'd liquidate to pay cash (even less wise if the account is taxable and you have gains)

A 4% auto loan is basically free money and if you really HATE having a payment you can always pay it off.

I wish you the best of luck.

Good point. It's funny that you say that. I do have a Ford Transit lined up as well. I was looking for anything other than a Transit or Ram ProMaster City but the Metris was too expensive and the Transit Connect works perfectly so I have a 2014 coming soon.

On to the cars and investments. I took a beating last December(2018) in the market but recovered nicely. Thank God Apple went on a nice run. I have 3 separate trading accounts. One I dont touch at all, one that I use as savings that's has turned in to my big winner and one I experiment aggressively with at lower amounts.

In my head, that savings account was the money I can do whatever I want with BUT you have a point. That's my best performing account and if it keeps growing at a decent rate it'll be my largest account before the end of the year. Plus gains. Another oversight. Originally I was just going to pull out what I needed to get the E46 then went down the rabbit hole and said I'll just get both and still have most of my money untouched.

Now that you bring it up, I should be trying to limit my cash flow period. As for having a vehicle to promote, its 50/50. Its definitely a personal purchase but I always made great success networking at events. More success locally obviously but it was a good way to show and tell. In all honesty I dont thing the ROI justifies a $35k purchase for 2 vehicles so that's something else I can think about. The testimonials and word of mouth referrals are where I put my value at.

I generally dont like financing but thanks for opening my eyes on that one. It makes perfect sense to finance if I can get a nice rate while my cash is earning above than that rate. Opportunity cost right?



Seriously thank all of you. 3 years ago I was tossing boxes in a shipping start up company and now I'm a business development executive because of the advice from guys like you.

[203E90]

Originally Posted by BimmerRookie

Also, I feel that since you're coming from the E9X gen 3-series, you'll appreciate the E92 that much more. IMO, people new to the brand have less of an appreciation of what the older gen M's have to offer. They'll never get it.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but if you do get an E92, get a good one and take care of it, it will reward you!

The F8X is fantastic no doubt, but it lacks soul and character.

*edit: the F8X also sounds like a lawnmower

First BMW I drove was an ex's E46 325 back in 2006 I believe and I wasn't impressed. 2 years later I drove a friends 330ci and it was way different. Almost 2 years later I bought my E90 325 and loved it. I didn't think it was all that slow coming from my Mazdaspeed3 but in reality it just drove so much more confidently that it seemed was faster. A few years later I got my 335 and I lost my mind lol.

over the years I drove a lot more BMWs and the E46 M3 gave me the most thrills by almost killing a noob like me but I drove the E90 m3 with a lot more respect lol and it was easily one of my favorites. That sound is therapeutic. The F80.....Its fast. Its got a lot of tech toys. It will get sideways instantly and go exactly where you point it. It was well controlled chaos. The think that I really like about the F80 was the only real aggressive thing about it. The DCT. Those upshifts move you forward with a purpose.

People new to the brand just won't understand the character of the old crayola scented BMWs. When I got my E90 335 I could've gotten an F30 335 for 45k more but I wanted that same feeling from my 325. F30 was almost frustrating to drive. It sounded like a BMW but didn't have the drama.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by 203E90

Good point. It's funny that you say that. I do have a Ford Transit lined up as well. I was looking for anything other than a Transit or Ram ProMaster City but the Metris was too expensive and the Transit Connect works perfectly so I have a 2014 coming soon.

On to the cars and investments. I took a beating last December(2018) in the market but recovered nicely. Thank God Apple went on a nice run. I have 3 separate trading accounts. One I dont touch at all, one that I use as savings that's has turned in to my big winner and one I experiment aggressively with at lower amounts.

In my head, that savings account was the money I can do whatever I want with BUT you have a point. That's my best performing account and if it keeps growing at a decent rate it'll be my largest account before the end of the year. Plus gains. Another oversight. Originally I was just going to pull out what I needed to get the E46 then went down the rabbit hole and said I'll just get both and still have most of my money untouched.

Now that you bring it up, I should be trying to limit my cash flow period. As for having a vehicle to promote, its 50/50. Its definitely a personal purchase but I always made great success networking at events. More success locally obviously but it was a good way to show and tell. In all honesty I dont thing the ROI justifies a $35k purchase for 2 vehicles so that's something else I can think about. The testimonials and word of mouth referrals are where I put my value at.

I generally dont like financing but thanks for opening my eyes on that one. It makes perfect sense to finance if I can get a nice rate while my cash is earning above than that rate. Opportunity cost right?



Seriously thank all of you. 3 years ago I was tossing boxes in a shipping start up company and now I'm a business development executive because of the advice from guys like you.

Yea we all took a bath December of '18. It was a terrible month, but all of 2019 was fantastic...S&P up almost 30%. Not that you should expect that again, but even a 7% rate of return makes financing logical.

I'm also an advocate of having more cash on hand. It'll also cost you much more to take a business loan (and they may not be nice or give you one if you have no revenue) than to keep the cash you have and take the loan for the car. Business loan rates will probably be double the one on the M3.

If you believe in your skills and the projection of the company don't worry about too much about cash flow right now. Other associated costs should be low enough that a car payment won't stop you in your tracks. If it does, something's wrong.

I 100% agree that having a car is good for networking at events, C&C, even strangers in parking lots..

Keep us posted my man.

[203E90]

Originally Posted by Ab28

Yea we all took a bath December of '18. It was a terrible month, but all of 2019 was fantastic...S&P up almost 30%. Not that you should expect that again, but even a 7% rate of return makes financing logical.

I'm also an advocate of having more cash on hand. It'll also cost you much more to take a business loan (and they may not be nice or give you one if you have no revenue) than to keep the cash you have and take the loan for the car. Business loan rates will probably be double the one on the M3.

If you believe in your skills and the projection of the company don't worry about too much about cash flow right now. Other associated costs should be low enough that a car payment won't stop you in your tracks. If it does, something's wrong.

I 100% agree that having a car is good for networking at events, C&C, even strangers in parking lots..

Keep us posted my man.

Thanks a lot. Some times you just have to talk it out to hear the logic.

[Helmsman]

Didn't take time to read through all but on "should I get two classic NA ///M cars or just the one with turbo", I say go classic. Plenty time to enjoy the turbos.

[203E90]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Didn't take time to read through all but on "should I get two classic NA ///M cars or just the one with turbo", I say go classic. Plenty time to enjoy the turbos.

Definitely sounds like the plan when you put it that way lol. I'm still keeping my N54 335 so I'll still get my turbo fix.

[pbonsalb]

If you are keeping your 335i and buying a van, you don’t need either or both new used car(s). Get the business up and running and making a profit. Then buy toys you don’t need. As others said, should you need to borrow money for a new business, you will have to give personal guarantees since the business has no history. Save your cash so you can use it if you need to.

[jaehshim]

trust me, in 4~5 yrs F80 will be around the same price as E46 or E9X

[dmk08]

F80 is junk. I owned one of the first ones and then an F82 comp. Don't do it.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by dmk08

F80 is junk. I owned one of the first ones and then an F82 comp. Don't do it.

That bad ey?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

That bad ey?

IMO, Yes... I couldn't ever get past the weedwhacker sound and lack of feel.

I tried to fix my F80. Dropped about 20k in mods including trying out various exhausts. It looked great but that was the only good part about it IMO.

I got sold the Comp Pack would fix the bad exhaust note so I traded it in on a 16 M4 Comp. It was better but now it was just a slightly deeper toned farting weedwhacker. Once again looked great but every time I floored it I would literally cringe.

Sold the M4 and got an awesome 2011 E92 M3 with 24k miles but had something come up and sold it. It was DCT. Im actually back in the market for a manual E90 M. 5th times a charm?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by dmk08

IMO, Yes... I couldn't ever get past the weedwhacker sound and lack of feel.

I tried to fix my F80. Dropped about 20k in mods including trying out various exhausts. It looked great but that was the only good part about it IMO.

I got sold the Comp Pack would fix the bad exhaust note so I traded it in on a 16 M4 Comp. It was better but now it was just a slightly deeper toned farting weedwhacker. Once again looked great but every time I floored it I would literally cringe.

Sold the M4 and got an awesome 2011 E92 M3 with 24k miles but had something come up and sold it. It was DCT. Im actually back in the market for a manual E90 M. 5th times a charm?

Thanks, interesting input. Agree the F80 looks great and from what I understand goes like crazy. Which...turns out to only be part of the joy. As I don't need faster - my use case is mainly daily commute where sound and feel already in low speed traffic is key - I probably never end up with the F8M.

You certainly make an effort to get your M right. Yep, hopefully you find dat E90 MT keeper!