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07-14-2008, 04:40 AM | #1 |
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Realistic Exhaust Pricing...
Just been in contact with Milltek. They have the full exahust system ready for the M3.
Stainless steel, full system, four 90mm pipes etc etc. Total price €1,121. Slightly cheaper i think you will agree than Gruppe M and Remus. Still waiting on a price to fit, but they indicated it would be no more than €200. Booked in for the job to be done early september |
07-14-2008, 12:10 PM | #3 |
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I have to admit that M3 exhaust pricing is ridiculous. I'd love an Eisenmann system, but paying upwards of $2500 for a damned muffler is just lame.
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07-14-2008, 12:39 PM | #4 |
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+1. I find it awkward that more people do not speak out about this because that is the only way pricing will come down and/or be more realistic. If everyone is just fine shelling $2500 for a muffler then obviously the price will never come down. And new exhausts coming to the market will look at those prices in pricing their own systems.
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07-14-2008, 12:40 PM | #5 | |
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Eisenmann systems use the highest quality stainless steel throughout the muffler, with stainless steel internals and hangers for the longest possible exhaust life- few other manufacturers still offer 304 stainless internals, for cost reasons. Although other manufacturers may advertise a “stainless steel” muffler, they typically use mild steel hangers and internals for an overall lower quality product. Eisenmann’s fit and finish is tested to the highest standards, both because of their need to pass TUV approval, and because they are an OEM manufacturer for Porsche and AMG cars. The TUV approval process is also extremely costly, and does add somewhat to the price. Just about anyone with a few contacts in the aftermarket business can call a factory in Taiwan, China, Korea, or one of the many other major producers of outsourced product, and take advantage of third world labor rates to get cheap product made. Eisenmann stays above the outsourcing mess by using well paid, well taken care of workers in Germany. Even if you live in Germany, the cost for an Eisenmann system is 1785 Euro, which translates into $2835, $4 off of our MSRP. Simply put, Eisenmann systems are not for everyone- they’re the highest end stainless steel exhausts money can buy, and the price reflects this.
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07-14-2008, 03:43 PM | #6 | |
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Exhaust system prices
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Speaking of internals, it would be great to see a cutaway of the inside of one of these.
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07-14-2008, 04:50 PM | #8 | |
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07-14-2008, 06:33 PM | #9 | |
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07-14-2008, 06:47 PM | #10 | |
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07-14-2008, 07:34 PM | #11 | |
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07-14-2008, 09:28 PM | #12 | |
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REmus vs. Eisenmann
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I DO think Remus is a relative bargain at just over half the cost. If cost is not as much of an object, I think Eisenmann is probably better. Not a huge difference either way, though. And, I haven't heard the Remus in person.
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07-14-2008, 10:23 PM | #13 | |
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I am with you, as much as I like the product, and value a well designed product. I have a hard time shelling out $2600 for what is essentially a muffler. I have the funds available for the exhaust but I just can't make myself whip out the card and make the purchase. I guess at this point I want to wait a bit, see what else comes to market and revisit my options then. I have seen a few more exhaust options that have come out lately that may be promising, just need to find out pricing, quality, sound, etc. Who knows perhaps after all is said and done Eisenmann may come out on top and I may end up with one. I just need to be a little patient.
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07-15-2008, 03:13 AM | #14 |
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The Eisenmann may have been designed by NASA and manufactured out of some pure titanium alloy by robotic assemblers in a cleanroom, and it may be built to tolerances so exact that it would take new theories of quantum mechanics to spot imperfections, but it's still just a muffler and some fancy chrome tips that cost $2600. It could be the absolute best muffler that will ever be built in all of automotive history, but is it *really* worth $2600? Let's put this into perspective: I could just about buy a Mac Pro for that, or a pretty good flatscreen tv, or a set of fully assembled AFR aluminum cylinder heads for an LS1 engine.
Someone has got to be making about $2000 profit on this, at least. |
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07-15-2008, 10:36 AM | #15 | |
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07-15-2008, 10:44 AM | #16 |
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Don't forget that each of the people involved in the process has some if not all of the following expenses: materials costs, importing costs, TUV approval costs, R&D costs, marketing costs, paying your well paid first world employees, and so on.
Many people don’t understand the need for a distributor or retailer, but it’s important to keep in mind that a number of skills and industry contacts are needed in order to get an exhaust system from the manufacturer to you: You need a person to speak the native language, at least a little bit, to help design the system for the appropriate market, test fit the system on a US market car, negotiate pricing and shipping times, and place the orders. You need someone with contacts in the shipping industry to negotiate good shipping rates, consolidate shipments, allow for systems to clear customs, and pay customs fees. MSRP on an Eisenmann is $2800 US IN GERMANY, so imagine trying to get this exhaust landed in the US on your own. To air ship a single system to the US costs close to $1000 US dollars with duties, taxes, air freight, and brokerage and customs fees. You’d pay closer to $4000 US dollars for an Eisenmann E92 M3 system if you tried to ship it in yourself. Even once the system is here, you need someone who can deal with the staff at the receiving airport, pick up the system, and get it to leave US customs in a timely fashion. When IND first started years ago, systems would be held at customs for an entire week, with us scrambling to get the necessary paperwork to make things happen. Now, with experience, we are usually able to clear systems through customs in a matter of hours, but only because we have working experience with the US customs system. Simply put, we’re just not making very much money on Eisenmann systems. Are we making money? Of course! Do you make money at work? We need to as well, in order to stay in business. To speak on the relevance of the TUV approval process to US customers: The TUV requires all manufacturers to submit engineering drawings of all exhaust systems, and scrutinizes exhaust fit, weld quality, material quality, sound volume, and so on. The TUV approval process is quite expensive, and the cost is built into every system sold by the manufacturer. Eisenmann systems are also built in an ISO 9001 manufacturing environment, and that certification isn’t cheap either. This might not mean anything now, but when the welds break on your outsourced system because there are no manufacturing standards to speak of, maybe you'll have wished you bought the more expensive system the first time.
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07-15-2008, 11:00 AM | #17 | |
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07-15-2008, 11:30 AM | #18 |
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I assure you that with us as the new distributor, warranty claims will not take 6 months to fulfill. We understand that when warrantying an exhaust system, it's critical to deliver ASAP, and act accordingly.
Are you sure that the product that was rattling was a genuine Eisenmann product? Eisenmann never made a midpipe for the E46 M3.
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07-15-2008, 01:58 PM | #19 |
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The current offerings look positively cheap (Remus, Eisenmann, etc.) next to the Kreissieg F1 (but the sound!!!) and the aforementioned Amuse. One curiosity that irks me is that finding realistic dyno results for these exhausts is difficult - often they are only "predictions." What is the rationale for this? "Lesser" cars (the sport compact crowd) usually have a wealth of dyno tested claims (dubious as they may be, but at least they have something...) to compare when buying an exhaust...
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07-15-2008, 02:50 PM | #20 | |
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07-15-2008, 02:54 PM | #21 |
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Here is the pricing for a similar E46 M3 Eisenmann exhuast system with 83mm tips....
Eisenmann Exhaust for the BMW M3 (e46) - 4x83mm double-walled round tips $2,467.80 Other cheaper options available of course but this is the most like the E92 versions out right now... http://www.beastpower.com/Merchant2/...ode=bmw-m3-e46 Jason
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