e92 M3 Budget-Minded Track Build

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by Candide13

If you are going for Apex wheels bear in mind that the EC-7 wheels clear all big brake kits whereas the Arc-8 wheels do not, I seem to remember.

ARC-8's will clear some 380 mm BBKs. They clear my StopTech 380mm Trophy kit (just barely though).

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

That's redpriest but he's a special kind of crazy

Oh damn yeah I follow him on IG lol....he got bit hard by the bug...with now 3 M3's I think ?? And does a track day just about every weekend. Already a legend.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Longboarder, I look forward to seeing you with another one of these cars!

I'm generally aligned with Mobbin

BRAKES
The PFC DD v3 rotors are very good. More than enough 'BBK' for most use.
As far as pads, I have fallen in love with the PFC 11 compound because it has almost zero street squeal, lasts a long time and is very easy to modulate. Although I have street pads on my BBK I no longer swap them out and just drive all year with the track pads.
Still, I would likely add a front BBK. BW sells the PFC Z54 front caliper I have in two cars for around 3k during their sales. Another option is the Essex kit referenced below

Great info thx my friend. The first thing likely to address is brakes (safety first of course), so I'm a bit excited about the option of upgraded PFC rotors on the stock calipers. Mobbin mentioned the need to change out pads after each track event - which to me is a bit of a non-starter since I have to pay someone to do this given my inability to even change a lightbulb on my own. You mentioned the PFC 11 - a race pad that doesn't squeal on the street? That would be fantastic although I assume like any track pad it needs heat it in it before it begins to work?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

If you got access to Project Mu or Endless there, I can recommend:

1. Project Mu HC+
Semi-metallic pads. You will break your neck even with mildly semi slick tyres like R888R. They say it's street&track dual use, but it's more towards track than street. Will squeal like hell.

2. Endless CC-RG
One of the most consistent pads I've used. Withstood 2 hours of continuous full brake at 4th gear entry hairpins pulling high Gs. Still got more than 60% left after around 10,000km of usage. Does not brake fade with Brembo 4Ps. Works pretty well with stock rotors. Doesn't squeal too much, considering it's semi-metallic.

3.Endless MX-72
Right in the middle of street/track, but it will lock your street tyres pretty easily. Much, Much better control and braking than DS2500s I've recently tried (they were shit. Don't buy it.) Doesn't fade unless you really stamp on it in the middle of the summer. (I ran 2 hours of tight course circuit lap length of ~50sec and it didn't fade during the 40C summer of Suzuka.) CC-RG is better for threshold braking.

Japanese aftermarket brake pads are pretty hardcore, as they are standard pads in races like SuperGT or D1. When they say it's race spec it means you need slick tyres. Just my $0.02.

Thanks. Do the Mx-72's squeal much on the street? Also, would the following tires prevent locking up with these pads: NT01, R888R, MPSP2 or RE71R ? Or would I need a tire with even more grip like a semi-slick?

[aus]

Check out this suspension for sale: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425989

BBK's go on sale here pretty regularly as well. I just don't have confidence in the stock system, especially if you like to brake late.
There's a set of track PFC track pads for stock brakes for sale now too.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

no, all i have are camber plates. i want moton coils with the rear coil conversion and a 1/2 cage integrated into the rear mounting points. i can't justify writing a check that big at the moment... in a way, it has been beneficial- i'm treating it as an education.
if i want to put up a respectable time, i have to be smoother with my inputs. i'm forced to be smooth. i'm at the point now where i can understand the limitations of the edc suspension. i feel like i understand the benefits of coilovers and i know how to articulate or describe what i want out of suspension tuning when i finally get coilovers. kinda silly, but its fun.
i also can't wait to finally get coilovers and destroy all my previous pb's. lol

Might want to buy these and sit on them until you're ready for the cage.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1463369

.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by aus

Check out this suspension for sale: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425989

BBK's go on sale here pretty regularly as well. I just don't have confidence in the stock system, especially if you like to brake late.
There's a set of track PFC track pads for stock brakes for sale now too.

Might want to buy these and sit on them until you're ready for the cage.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1463369

.

I want 3 ways.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Thanks. Do the Mx-72's squeal much on the street? Also, would the following tires prevent locking up with these pads: NT01, R888R, MPSP2 or RE71R ? Or would I need a tire with even more grip like a semi-slick?

R888R will be just right for MX72. I used them with Federal RSR before and it felt great (pads slightly stronger than tyres.) I had about 50% life left after around 20,000km of track/gymkhana/street use so they last pretty long as well. Endless also recommends high grip radial tyres for Mx72. (Referenced from Japanese site)

For noise... your car will sound like F40 every time you brake lightly. Hard brakes, no noise issue. Bear in mind my rotor was on its way out, so it might sound differently now.

[jritt@essex]

Along the lines of what others have said with regard to brakes. I wouldn't completely rule out a front brake kit as an earlier mod. The initial cost can be a bit daunting, but the economics of it make a lot of sense when you look closely. A large percentage of our customers across all platforms (including a couple in this thread) tell us that our Essex/AP Racing BBK is the single best bang-for-the-buck mod that they ever did for tracking their car. Here's why:

1. Consumable costs- When everything is running cool and efficiently, you're not constantly throwing spare pads, discs, and brake fluid at the car. I'd say a conservative estimate would be that the consumables in our kits last at minimum three times longer than stock. In some cases, it's many more times than that. The high-temp seals in our calipers hold up great, and they rarely have to be rebuilt. From what we've seen, most original owners never rebuild them during their ownership. We've found that our brake kits typically pay for themselves in consumable savings alone after 2-3 years of use.

2. Repeat-ability- Our kits offer the same feel and performance on the first lap of the first session that they do on the last lap of the last session. If you want to work on improving as a driver, they are of huge benefit. Brakes are no longer a variable in the equation, and they allow you to focus on all other aspects of your driving.

3. Confidence- Confidence comes from the point above, and allows you to feel comfortable as you brake consistently deeper.

4. Convenience- Rather than having to constantly bleed brakes and replace pads and discs, you may only have to do the occasional bleed. You don't lose time between sessions, you don't have to constantly be wrenching, and you have more fun during your time a the track. If you've ever scrambled around at the track rushing to get the car ready and back out there, it's not fun...and can lead to mistakes.

5. Resale- This is a big one that people forget about. When you burn up the OEM brake components, they're essentially worthless. They get thrown in the trash. With our kits, that isn't the case. They are incredibly durable, and last a very long time under heavy abuse. When you sell your car and move to your next one, you can sell our kit for about 65% of what you paid for it. That means you have a nice chunk of change coming back to you at the time of sale, which cuts your real cost on the use of the kit dramatically. You're also able to preserve your OEM brake components on the shelf in your garage. That also means you don't have to go out and buy fresh OEM pads and discs just to make the car presentable for sale. So rather than spending money only to hand your keys over to the next owner, you're collecting a couple grand instead.

Front-only kit
My advice on this chassis is to buy the absolute best front kit you can afford. The front of these cars takes the brunt of the abuse, and is where the greatest opportunity lies. Your ROI will be extremely high on a front brake kit, but not nearly as high on the rear. Most M3 owners will go through several sets of front pads/discs for every one rear set. If you're on a budget, stick to the front. The rear can always be added later.

Lesser brake solutions always appear appealing because of a low cost of entry. If you track your car for the next few years though, you will spend the money on your brakes one way or another. You can either do it once up front and not worry about it anymore, or you can continually throw band-aids at it.

Finally, having the best brakes possible will do more for your lap times, consistency, and confidence than most other mods to the car. We usually joke that we're about seventh on the list after tires, exhaust, coil-overs, wheels, seats, wings, etc. The reality is, the brakes will trump most of those in terms of what they give back to you.

All of the above said, I would at minimum run whatever car you get a few times at the track and make sure it's what you want. Do the pads and brake fluid at minimum, and see how you like it. However, after you burn up that first set of track pads in the OEM shape and make the decision that the car is a keeper, I'd suggest considering a BBK. The more track miles you plan to put on it, the more money the BBK will save you.

[slicer]

Adam -

Glad to see you are considering getting back into an e92 M3. My thoughts are similar to others regarding necessary upgrades but I would caution you on thinking you are going to be fully satisfied with a budget build. I see what cars you have in your signature, and I remember the e92 you had in the past. You know quality and performance. I have had 3 e9x m3's and tried a lot of the various parts available. I'm not as seasoned on the track is some of the responders as I have never participated in the Bimmer Challenge and/or raced competitively. I have always built my car to be a dual-purpose weekender / track car. As we all know, the better the car is for one, the worse it is for the other. I think the e92 is a very fun platform on the track but I would expect the build to grow to include the following ---

Suspension -
Coil-overs with camber plates. This is the first thing that personally would want as dialing in the handling of this car is the most rewarding for me personally. I think the KW club sport is the best bang for the buck but I have never tried the Bilstein kit. I have had both the 2-way and 3-way club sport and honestly would go with the 2-way. For the extra cost of the 3-way there are better options out there IMO. Today I have the Ohlin's TTX kit from PSI. I originally ordered JRZ's but after 6 weeks of waiting I pulled the plug. PSI had me their kit in a week. All parts in stock. That's a big thing when you take into consideration future rebuilds. I have heard of people waiting for months for suspension rebuilds. PSI is in Sonoma and stocks the necessary rebuild parts. That quick turn around time is a big consideration.

Coil-overs are a good start but while you are at it there are some other weak points in the suspension bushings. I upgraded many of the bushings and have all of the parts that Fall-Line makes for the car. You should have Malek drop the sub-frame and install new bushings there as well as the diff. While you are at it I would consider upgrading the sway bars and even the other arms from SPL. See how things start to snowball?

Wheels / Tires -
Many like to run square. I personally like staggered (265/295). I don't think there is a perfect answer here. Suspension adjustments can be made to make the car handle well with either option. People like how square allows for rotation but I just accept that my fronts are going to wear faster than the rears and replace the fronts more frequently.

Brakes -
I have the Essex kit and think their explanation above makes a ton of sense. Fronts are probably all you need but damn their 4 wheel kit works well and looks awesome. I had Stoptech trophies in the past and was happy with them. No issues. The quality of the Essex stuff is definitely a step up though.

Engine -
Do your rod bearings. Consider a baffled oil pan while you are doing the rod bearings (no added labor). VAC sells one. I have it, seems to work well other than the oil level sensor doesn't like it. Cat delete and tune are a plus. Obviously avoid a supercharger unless you want to deal with cooling challenges. May want to upgrade cooling from CSF or D088 but honestly I hear mixed results with that. The D088 DCT cooler does have a good track record but you have to hack up your fender liner which I'm not a big fan of (for my dual purpose car).

Interior -
Fixed back seats and a 1/2 cage are a big plus. Can get by with Schroth Quick Fit pro's. They work well but there's no substitute for a good seat. Brey Krause are by far the best mounts I have used. Everything else is a PIA and doesn't work well IMO.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Oh damn yeah I follow him on IG lol....he got bit hard by the bug...with now 3 M3's I think ?? And does a track day just about every weekend. Already a legend.

Haha. Yeah, low 1:50s is definitely possible with stock suspension car. I'm going to echo what slicer said, and that you're going to have to live with some compromises, especially with regards to body roll.

Since you're used to much lighter p-cars, I don't think you'll ever be able to fully dial it out to your liking, but I will say with minimal mods I had on the car, it's a night and day difference between my stock competition M4 and my E92. My M4 heaves and rolls noticably even just accelerating and braking, and especially in turns. Honestly, I didn't even know what body roll was until I felt how severe it was in the M4.

My personal mod list I would recommend:

Dinan anti-roll bar (front only to dial out body roll)
Dinan mono-balls for front control arms (eliminate squirrely rear during braking)
Camber plates (helps prevent you from cording the edge of the tire on track)
Essex AP Racing front BBK (Eliminate fade on demanding tracks and long term cost reduction in terms of brake pad and rotors - stock rotors are expensive).
JRZ RS Pro or MCS 2 way remote coilovers - the benefit if you use JRZ is you can steal my compression and rebound settings that I list in every one of my videos and use that as a starting point
Schroth Quick Fit Pro to keep you anchored in the car if you are using stock seats. (optional)


If you have a DCT car:
do88 transmission cooler (you will have laggy shifts in hot weather, even at ACS)

That's it. If you want to cut costs further you can probably swap out for stop tech trophy kit or a lesser coil over set.

JRZs are amazing to drive on at the street compared to stock suspension when you set it to the recommended street setting of 6 rebound and 3 compression. Feels buttery smooth.

Here's my 1:52.96 lap at ACS with a modest mod list:

Mods and tires I was using at the time:
2011 BMW M3 (E92 ZCP)
275/18 x4 Nitto NT01 on Apex EC-7 ET25 18x10
BPM Stage II tune
BPM DCT tune
Akrapovic Evolution exhaust
Macht Schnell Stage II Air Intake
Macht Schnell Underdrive Pulley
AP Racing Radi-CAL Pro5000R CP9660 BBK by Essex (front)
AP Racing CP5040 BBK by Essex (rear)
Ferodo DS1.11 brake pads
Dinan front anti-sway bar
Ground Control camber plates -2.5
Swift Spec R springs
do88 Oil Cooler
CSF Radiator
Full interior

[redpriest]

I'll be at Chuckwalla, probably in my E46, this entire weekend Adam if you are gonna be there and want to talk.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Oh damn yeah I follow him on IG lol....he got bit hard by the bug...with now 3 M3's I think ?? And does a track day just about every weekend. Already a legend.

nah - he's just a hotdog poseur.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Great info thx my friend. The first thing likely to address is brakes (safety first of course), so I'm a bit excited about the option of upgraded PFC rotors on the stock calipers. Mobbin mentioned the need to change out pads after each track event - which to me is a bit of a non-starter since I have to pay someone to do this given my inability to even change a lightbulb on my own. You mentioned the PFC 11 - a race pad that doesn't squeal on the street? That would be fantastic although I assume like any track pad it needs heat it in it before it begins to work?

When i heard about the pfc11 i thought it was some kind of joke, but it's the real deal

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by macdude357

So are we going to be seeing you at a Bimmer Challenge event sometime soon?

Nah but I might be there rooting you guys on. Maybe someday...that sounds like a blast!

Originally Posted by slicer

Adam -

Glad to see you are considering getting back into an e92 M3. My thoughts are similar to others regarding necessary upgrades but I would caution you on thinking you are going to be fully satisfied with a budget build. I see what cars you have in your signature, and I remember the e92 you had in the past. You know quality and performance. I have had 3 e9x m3's and tried a lot of the various parts available. I'm not as seasoned on the track is some of the responders as I have never participated in the Bimmer Challenge and/or raced competitively. I have always built my car to be a dual-purpose weekender / track car. As we all know, the better the car is for one, the worse it is for the other. I think the e92 is a very fun platform on the track but I would expect the build to grow to include the following ---

Suspension -
Coil-overs with camber plates. This is the first thing that personally would want as dialing in the handling of this car is the most rewarding for me personally. I think the KW club sport is the best bang for the buck but I have never tried the Bilstein kit. I have had both the 2-way and 3-way club sport and honestly would go with the 2-way. For the extra cost of the 3-way there are better options out there IMO. Today I have the Ohlin's TTX kit from PSI. I originally ordered JRZ's but after 6 weeks of waiting I pulled the plug. PSI had me their kit in a week. All parts in stock. That's a big thing when you take into consideration future rebuilds. I have heard of people waiting for months for suspension rebuilds. PSI is in Sonoma and stocks the necessary rebuild parts. That quick turn around time is a big consideration.

Coil-overs are a good start but while you are at it there are some other weak points in the suspension bushings. I upgraded many of the bushings and have all of the parts that Fall-Line makes for the car. You should have Malek drop the sub-frame and install new bushings there as well as the diff. While you are at it I would consider upgrading the sway bars and even the other arms from SPL. See how things start to snowball?

Wheels / Tires -
Many like to run square. I personally like staggered (265/295). I don't think there is a perfect answer here. Suspension adjustments can be made to make the car handle well with either option. People like how square allows for rotation but I just accept that my fronts are going to wear faster than the rears and replace the fronts more frequently.

Brakes -
I have the Essex kit and think their explanation above makes a ton of sense. Fronts are probably all you need but damn their 4 wheel kit works well and looks awesome. I had Stoptech trophies in the past and was happy with them. No issues. The quality of the Essex stuff is definitely a step up though.

Engine -
Do your rod bearings. Consider a baffled oil pan while you are doing the rod bearings (no added labor). VAC sells one. I have it, seems to work well other than the oil level sensor doesn't like it. Cat delete and tune are a plus. Obviously avoid a supercharger unless you want to deal with cooling challenges. May want to upgrade cooling from CSF or D088 but honestly I hear mixed results with that. The D088 DCT cooler does have a good track record but you have to hack up your fender liner which I'm not a big fan of (for my dual purpose car).

Interior -
Fixed back seats and a 1/2 cage are a big plus. Can get by with Schroth Quick Fit pro's. They work well but there's no substitute for a good seat. Brey Krause are by far the best mounts I have used. Everything else is a PIA and doesn't work well IMO.

Hmmm. Just sell me your car B. Then I can just be done

Thx buddy I am really hoping this car can be quick with minimal mods. But more than anything I'm looking for a particular "feel" and not necessarily outright speed. I know that I love the stock suspension but I don't like the bodyroll. So I may try something like redpriest suggests with anti-sway bars first before doing anything else suspension related. Have MRF dial in as much neg camber as possible to save the tires and re-align to make the car as neutral as possible. Also have MRF remove all unnecessary weight should be very helpful. Then of course pads, fluid and SS lines for safety and finally some good tires on the stock wheels...maybe MPSC2's. It's not a huge $$ outlay but should ensure the car will be tons of fun on the track...and then go from there!

Originally Posted by redpriest

Haha. Yeah, low 1:50s is definitely possible with stock suspension car. I'm going to echo what slicer said, and that you're going to have to live with some compromises, especially with regards to body roll.

Since you're used to much lighter p-cars, I don't think you'll ever be able to fully dial it out to your liking, but I will say with minimal mods I had on the car, it's a night and day difference between my stock competition M4 and my E92. My M4 heaves and rolls noticably even just accelerating and braking, and especially in turns. Honestly, I didn't even know what body roll was until I felt how severe it was in the M4.

My personal mod list I would recommend:

Dinan anti-roll bar (front only to dial out body roll)
Dinan mono-balls for front control arms (eliminate squirrely rear during braking)
Camber plates (helps prevent you from cording the edge of the tire on track)
Essex AP Racing front BBK (Eliminate fade on demanding tracks and long term cost reduction in terms of brake pad and rotors - stock rotors are expensive).
JRZ RS Pro or MCS 2 way remote coilovers - the benefit if you use JRZ is you can steal my compression and rebound settings that I list in every one of my videos and use that as a starting point
Schroth Quick Fit Pro to keep you anchored in the car if you are using stock seats. (optional)


If you have a DCT car:
do88 transmission cooler (you will have laggy shifts in hot weather, even at ACS)

That's it. If you want to cut costs further you can probably swap out for stop tech trophy kit or a lesser coil over set.

JRZs are amazing to drive on at the street compared to stock suspension when you set it to the recommended street setting of 6 rebound and 3 compression. Feels buttery smooth.

Here's my 1:52.96 lap at ACS with a modest mod list:

Mods and tires I was using at the time:
2011 BMW M3 (E92 ZCP)
275/18 x4 Nitto NT01 on Apex EC-7 ET25 18x10
BPM Stage II tune
BPM DCT tune
Akrapovic Evolution exhaust
Macht Schnell Stage II Air Intake
Macht Schnell Underdrive Pulley
AP Racing Radi-CAL Pro5000R CP9660 BBK by Essex (front)
AP Racing CP5040 BBK by Essex (rear)
Ferodo DS1.11 brake pads
Dinan front anti-sway bar
Ground Control camber plates -2.5
Swift Spec R springs
do88 Oil Cooler
CSF Radiator
Full interior

Originally Posted by redpriest

I'll be at Chuckwalla, probably in my E46, this entire weekend Adam if you are gonna be there and want to talk.

I really like how you progressed with your car - both improving the car and the driver little by little. I'm definitely going to keep referencing back your journal thread, particularly when I go to a new track to watch your vids. I'm doing ACS Sunday but I'd love to check out Chuckwalla someday - prob with the M3 (if I ever get one lol) since I don't want to drive my current track car that far.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

When i heard about the pfc11 i thought it was some kind of joke, but it's the real deal

Great to know thx again.

[bigjae1976]

Stock brakes work.

A Stoptech BBK (ST40 fr &rr) will work, save you money, less maintenance.

With the ST40, you can run the Apex 17" wheels which will save you about $200/set of tires.

Add all that up for a track rar, you're talking a grand or two per year in operating costs.

...just a thought.

Or you can get the bigger BBKs, run 18s and impress other men with your 18" wheels.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Stock brakes work.

A Stoptech BBK (ST40 fr &rr) will work, save you money, less maintenance.

With the ST40, you can run the Apex 17" wheels which will save you about $200/set of tires.

Add all that up for a track rar, you're talking a grand or two per year in operating costs.

...just a thought.

Or you can get the bigger BBKs, run 18s and impress other men with your 18" wheels.

I did have the ST kit on my previous e92 M3. Yes they were absolutely fantastic. With the standard pads no squeal ever and they were amazing at the track no worries at all. The feel of the brakes was the same as my 991 GT3 steel brakes with the upgraded brembo street/track pads which unfortunately squeal a bit on the street when they are warm. But i had to change out the stock pads they were terrible - i actually cracked them in half on a 90 deg F track day over the summer. So in that regard the ST brakes with the standard ST street pads were superior to the stock GT3 steels and my M3 was 400-500 pounds heavier.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Hmmm. Just sell me your car B. Then I can just be done

PM sent about that

[okusa]

So how much are you budgeting for this "Budget-Minded Track Build"?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by okusa

So how much are you budgeting for this "Budget-Minded Track Build"?

Whatever amount of $ that gets me within 10 seconds of you

[Longboarder]

Does anyone know how much free "excess weight" can be stripped out easily - like rear seats? I will do the no-brainer stuff too like floor mats, that tire inflation thing in the trunk, all trunk liners...stuff like that.

Anything else that's pretty easy to remove? NAV / stereo speakers not really an option as I need to drive the car to and from the track. And I need a passenger seat.

Thx.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Does anyone know how much free "excess weight" can be stripped out easily - like rear seats? I will do the no-brainer stuff too like floor mats, that tire inflation thing in the trunk, all trunk liners...stuff like that.

Anything else that's pretty easy to remove? NAV / stereo speakers not really an option as I need to drive the car to and from the track. And I need a passenger seat.

Thx.

Rear seats
Run driver side bucket seat only (I'm gonna direct floor mount a storage bin instead of a passenger seat it can perhaps become a cool suit tank)
Akra

Prob almost 200 pounds right there.

[bigjae1976]

Delete the A/C?