E92 M3 potential future classic?

[movietub]

Hi,

I need a second car for very occasional use (perhaps 1-2 times a week, no more than 1000 miles per year). I've been thinking that since I'll be driving enough to maintain a healthy car, but not increase it's mileage significantly, I could look to something that will perhaps pick up or at least hold it's value long term.

I'm not expecting to ever 'make money', I just started to think that if I could at least offset a good chunk of the running and maintenance costs, I could have an affordable interesting car. I'm under no illusion that an old M3 is some sort of money tree

I first had this idea a few years ago, and at that time I was looking at a Honda S2000. Sadly I didn't go that route which is a shame as I see the same age/mileage examples now selling for around £2-3k more! That would have pretty much paid for me to run the car for a few years, it would genuinely have been a more or less free car.

My only reason to believe the E92 could have a bright future is the fact that it not only had a particularly sweet NA engine, it was also the last NA M3. In the all electric future, is it reasonable to think that certain 'particularly good' IC cars might become very desirable? And could the V8 M3 be one such car?

I've never really tracked the value of old M cars before, has anyone else got any references to the value curve of the E92 M3's? I see the SMG M5 has held a very respectable value for a couple of years now, in spite of all it's issues, which is another car that is benefits from having a particularly memorable engine.

A more sensible choice would be a low mileage Mazda RX8, or still probably the S2000. But.. I really love the athletic V8 in the M3, it's probably the engine that's put more of a smile on my face than any other.. Could be worth a punt?

[Montaver]

Its very possible, in the same way clean E46's have increased in value. I'd caution we are at the end of a very bullish economic cycle, I think a lot of used cars are overpriced (look at 993 911's) - the market will inevitably correct itself. In my view the money already being asked for very low mileage mint examples of the e9x is not worth it. If you think about the e9x being a $50k car it becomes significantly less compelling than $30k.

Its a good time to get into the E9x though, as particularly earlier examples are very near the end of their depreciation. For the money there is nothing better.

[highwaystardoritos]

A lower mileage E9x will hold its value but it won't go up as much. The rare trim models of the M3 will probably stay high like the Forzen and Lime Rock editions.

Look at the S2000, the CR model has been going up in value the last 2 years. They are just about to bring MSRP pricing.

[Ab28]

I don't see it happening and I really love the platform.

BMW made thousands of them...it's just not rare enough for it to appreciate in a major way. I see this as a positive though. Better off having the cars at attainable prices where people don't worry about using them or putting on the miles.

My philosophy is to use the things you own. If you can afford the car and maintenance then just drive it. Garage queens be damned.

And (hypothetically) who really cares if the car goes from 30k to 50k in 10 years??

So it goes up 2k/year, you pay between 1k-2.5k in insurance, some maintenance, etc....you barely break even and you didn't get to enjoy the car. Seems like a total waste to me.


To answer the actual thread question: I very much think it'll be a sought after car in the future with the same enthusiast culture taking care of them.

[IB M]

Your idea has merit. Buy a low mileage car. Keep it up on maintenance. Put less than 2k miles per year and in 5 to 10 years you'll probably get out flat or slightly ahead on purchase price. I don't think it will appreciate enough to fully cover maintenance costs, insurance and the estimated 5%-8% u could be earning on your principal. Part of the price to play.

I'd also add u should look for low option cars with this strategy. I test drove a late model x5 the other day with 4.4 L V8. Truck was great but had every Bell and whistle. A PDC sensor was out - just that little item was hundreds of dollars to replace. The rear seats folded electrically but were slow to move - what would that cost to fix? If I was buying a long term keeper e92 I'd look for no sunroof, no electric folding mirrors, no PDC, no rear window shade, manual seats, etc.....

Happy hunting.

[roastbeef]

We already know it's going to be a favorite.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by lat77

I don't see it happening and I really love the platform.

BMW made thousands of them...it's just not rare enough for it to appreciate in a major way. I see this as a positive though. Better off having the cars at attainable prices where people don't worry about using them or putting on the miles.

My philosophy is to use the things you own. If you can afford the car and maintenance then just drive it. Garage queens be damned.

And (hypothetically) who really cares if the car goes from 30k to 50k in 10 years??

So it goes up 2k/year, you pay between 1k-2.5k in insurance, some maintenance, etc....you barely break even and you didn't get to enjoy the car. Seems like a total waste to me.


To answer the actual thread question: I very much think it'll be a sought after car in the future with the same enthusiast culture taking care of them.

Thanks. I certainly don't expect to ever make money out of this sort of idea. The question was more about the V8 M3's likelihood of steadily increasing in value if the mileage remains particularly low for it's age. Just to offset hopefully most running/maintenance costs would be fine. It would still make it a cheap car.

This all started as I was considering spending around £1500 a year on a lease car, just for the convenience of having a second car when I really need to go out and my wife is out in my car! But thinking about it... That £1500 a year would pay my insurance, tax, fuel on the M3 as it would only be driven a couple of times a week at most. So long as the car itself doesn't lose value over say the next 10 years, it would cost me no more than a cheap runaround, and if it actually gained a little, it would be fantastic.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by IB M

Your idea has merit. Buy a low mileage car. Keep it up on maintenance. Put less than 2k miles per year and in 5 to 10 years you'll probably get out flat or slightly ahead on purchase price. I don't think it will appreciate enough to fully cover maintenance costs, insurance and the estimated 5%-8% u could be earning on your principal. Part of the price to play.

I'd also add u should look for low option cars with this strategy. I test drove a late model x5 the other day with 4.4 L V8. Truck was great but had every Bell and whistle. A PDC sensor was out - just that little item was hundreds of dollars to replace. The rear seats folded electrically but were slow to move - what would that cost to fix? If I was buying a long term keeper e92 I'd look for no sunroof, no electric folding mirrors, no PDC, no rear window shade, manual seats, etc.....

Happy hunting.

Problem with that... is that the M3's with EDC and DCT have always held value better as a result of those two options. Other than that, I fully take your point though. If it doesn't have something, it can't break!

Where do you get 5-8% by the way!? Are you in the US? In the UK getting more than 1% is tricky!

[movietub]

Originally Posted by highwaystardoritos

A lower mileage E9x will hold its value but it won't go up as much. The rare trim models of the M3 will probably stay high like the Forzen and Lime Rock editions.

Look at the S2000, the CR model has been going up in value the last 2 years. They are just about to bring MSRP pricing.

The S2k was my first thought (see my first post). It is indeed a very good choice and I suspect in another 10 years they will be firmly above MSRP.

I do love the S2000 too. If I fail to convince myself the V8 M3 will pick up a little value, I could well still end up going S2000 shopping...

The old WRX STi was also another I considered, pretty sure they will be worth a lot one day with low-ish miles and unmodified. The problem is.. I actively dislike the car so it's not an option for me.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by movietub

Problem with that... is that the M3's with EDC and DCT have always held value better as a result of those two options. Other than that, I fully take your point though. If it doesn't have something, it can't break!

Where do you get 5-8% by the way!? Are you in the US? In the UK getting more than 1% is tricky!

US yes - 5% is a basic debt rate at this point.

Agree on EDC and DCT as those are performance options vs convenience or luxury options. Funny enough in the US i think 6MT cars will hold value better than DCT. That said DCT is no slouch and imo will not suffer the drastic value penalty associated with the E46M SMG. SMG on E46M is a near $10k penalty in the US.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

We already know it's going to be a favorite.

Could have said that about previous M cars though...

Although I do think the V8 made the E92 particularly special. Maybe it's still too recent to stand out right now, but I have a feeling in another 10 years people will see it as a high point in the evolution of the M3. Especially on the day that the latest M3 is all electric. Which seriously can't be that far in the future now, given that Germany along with half of Europe and beyond have committed to stop selling IC cars, with bans coming in as early as 2025..

I'm all for the future and electric is fine by me.. But I already lust for the revvy M3 V8. That lust will only grow when my daily driver is electric, I'm sure of it.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

We already know it's going to be a favorite.

After 5 years ownership its already a classic for me. And certainly a favorite... All I need to know...

[movietub]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

After 5 years ownership its already a classic for me. And certainly a favorite... All I need to know...

Out of interest, have you had any problems with it in those 5 years?

It's certainly the loveliest drivers car I have driven. I recently took an F-type out for the day and for all it's theatre it was honestly nowhere near as engaging or reassuring.

[L1FHR]

For the longest time, I want to buy a specific last production of 2013 E92 M3 with ZCP package, low mileage,DCT,EDC,CF roof and stocked car.
Finally I got lucky and found one that have everything that I want in my E92. Yes I waited a long time to find one that is “knock on wood” is perfect.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by movietub

Out of interest, have you had any problems with it in those 5 years?

It's certainly the loveliest drivers car I have driven. I recently took an F-type out for the day and for all it's theatre it was honestly nowhere near as engaging or reassuring.

Like I use to say: not even a lamp bulb broke during 5y/28k miles. I daily year around, sure mostly normal driving and proper maintained but still, wow.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Like I use to say: not even a lamp bulb broke during 5y/28k miles. I daily year around, sure mostly normal driving and proper maintained but still, wow.

That's good to know. I understand SMG M5 owners didn't have such an easy life...

I have had E46, and F31 and currently on an F36. Apart from squeaky m+ brakes, never an issue on any of them. The F31 I had for nearly 50k miles and it felt brand new when I handed it back - that's saying something as it was a company car so I wasn't all that gentle for those 50k miles

[Transfer]

I love this car and think it has the special mojo that is peak BMW ///M but if the miles climb past about 50k, I can't see the value holding. Less than about 50k miles? Yeah value may hold over next 5+ years but if you drive it the value will drop. Just look at E60 M5. People are scared to death of owning one although granted a lot of that comes from the SMG, but the car is otherwise not that different than E9x M3. I think fewer and fewer people will take risks on owning an S65 as the miles climb.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I love this car and think it has the special mojo that is peak BMW ///M but if the miles climb past about 50k, I can't see the value holding. Less than about 50k miles? Yeah value may hold over next 5+ years but if you drive it the value will drop. Just look at E60 M5. People are scared to death of owning one although granted a lot of that comes from the SMG, but the car is otherwise not that different than E9x M3. I think fewer and fewer people will take risks on owning an S65 as the miles climb.

I thought the vanos issue wasn't such a killer for the V8 as it apparently was in the M5 V10? Also some other issues which seem to plague the M% but not the M3.

Anyway, yes it would be a 40-50k max that I would look at buying, and would probably only drive it for occasional blasts once a week, maybe 1k miles a year. So I guess in 10 years it could well be over 50k, but not by much - and considerably lower than most others at that age. I also have space in the garage for winter protection, I'm perfectly happy to fit seat covers and only take it out in the dry etc etc. I think in my position I have a very good chance of buying an 'average' car today, and in ten years time having something quite unusually tidy relative to the fate that will have befallen many other examples by that time.

I basically just need 'any car' that can serve to get me to the shops and back or run an errand every now and again. It might as well be something that has a chance of being interesting today and valuable tomorrow, than something cheap that will just lose value.

[Candide13]

And I don't mean about the resale value...

...I mean about the guaranteed fact that once you get into an E9x M3, you'll want to drive it more often, and then you'll want to take it to the track, and then you'll want to modify it to your precise desires, and then you will have just lost your entire soul and consciousness to a rapidly depreciating piece of peerless German engineering that will scream, and I mean scream, as you push it to redline, which is something you will do, and you will repeat doing until they pry the key fob from your dead, cold hands.

Otherwise it's a jolly good car.

[wfdeacon88]

I bought 09' e90 with ~95K miles to be a daily driver to and from my grueling job (with often daycare drop-off's). About 50 miles a day. Just spent about 4 grand getting bearings (BE), OEM Exhaust mod, new plugs, new underbelly pan, and some other misc. preventative items. I plan to keep it maintained, but I also plan to drive the hell out of it for at least 2 years as it makes getting on the road to and from a high-stress job a blast each and every-time. I probably wouldn't DD an e9x M3 with lower miles, because I would hate paying the low mileage premium to just rack up miles. My plan is to one day get an M5 for DD and and keep the e90 as the fun weekend car.. but if its banged up by then, then just get another one with lower miles to drive less. I honestly can't imagine daily driving a non-M car after having one.. Life's too short to save all of the miles for someone else.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by movietub

Could have said that about previous M cars though...

Although I do think the V8 made the E92 particularly special. Maybe it's still too recent to stand out right now, but I have a feeling in another 10 years people will see it as a high point in the evolution of the M3.

if you look back, all of the "collector" type of cars are the M cars that were either unique or had major advancements.

e30 - first of its kind
e46 - much more advanced than the e36, still beautiful
e9x - much faster than the e46, still beautiful
m coupe Z cars - unique and rare

there will be faster cars in the future, but maybe not as inspiring.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Candide13

And I don't mean about the resale value...

...I mean about the guaranteed fact that once you get into an E9x M3, you'll want to drive it more often, and then you'll want to take it to the track, and then you'll want to modify it to your precise desires, and then you will have just lost your entire soul and consciousness to a rapidly depreciating piece of peerless German engineering that will scream, and I mean scream, as you push it to redline, which is something you will do, and you will repeat doing until they pry the key fob from your dead, cold hands.

Otherwise it's a jolly good car.

My feelings exactly. 😂