Need Help! Can't figure out electrical issue

[///Monty]

Hi all. I've been actively researching and trying different things I've found online so far, trying to prevent going to a shop and getting charged essentially for hours of diagnosis for what may be something simple.

Vehicle: 2008 E92 M3
Current Miles: 100.5k
Miles when purchased (2014): ~74k

Maintenance I've done in the past 10k miles: Tires, full new brake kit, catback borla ATAK exhaust, thermostat, water pump, throttle body actuators.

Prior fixed issue: Limp Mode. Solved; replaced throttle body actuators.

Current issue: SES light for emissions, brake light, ABS light, DSC light, windshield wiper will not turn off, auto signal off inop (turn signal). Also, water leaking into foot area during heavy rain storms


Okay, so everything had been going excellent on the ol M3 for the past 10k miles since I replaced the throttle body actuators. Recently, I moved states and since arriving (maybe coincidence), I've received a whole slew of issues. Initially, my wiper blades wouldn't stop. Electrically, I first figured maybe the relay is the issue. I checked the fuses (for everything BTW) and they looked good. I replaced a few older ones that have began to oxidize, but otherwise all good. I ordered a new relay, 2 in fact, and the wipers still do not turn off with relay installed.

To make matters worse, once I pulled the relay and fuses to narrow down the issue, I received a DSC error, brake error, and ABS error AND my turn signal won't auto shutoff after turns and steering wheel buttons are inop. At this point, I'm super confused. I tried disconnecting the negative terminal on battery and rechecking then reseating all fuses associated with any system that my car or BLUDriver are telling me is malfunctioning, reconnected battery. Still jacked up.

I haven't had time, but later today I'll probably try reseating the DSC module in engine bay. Haven't checked the steering sensor yet. It says the rear and front right are malfunctioning, but again they weren't an issue before I pulled the wiper blade fuses


To be clear, mechanically the car runs fine. I brake safely. Shifter is fine. Etc.

I have ordered a lambda O2 sensor for the emissions issue, but can't figure anything out regarding these electrical issues that all started with a faulty windshield wiper.

Please help!

I also attached an error readout from my BLUDriver app.

I'm in Maryland if any super pros live near me! Haha

[deansbimmer]

Sounds to me like FRM module failure. It's located just above the hood release. You'll need to have a proper diagnostic session with ISTA-D to confirm. It's not something you can really DIY without it. Your failure mode is consistent with a bus fault. I suspect ISTA won't be able to communicate with the FRM, DSC, or SZL which is another dead giveaway given the random fragility of the FRM module. Google Service bulletin SI B01 20 16 for details.

These car's don't have a ton of separate relays controlling various systems that you can replace. (Really no modern car does anymore). They have control modules that control a slew of functions and when a particular module fails, a ton of functions are lost. Typically, the systems are designed with redundancies to keep critical functions operational so you can get to a service center safely.

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Sounds to me like FRM module failure. It's located just above the hood release. You'll need to have a proper diagnostic session with ISTA-D to confirm. It's not something you can really DIY without it. Your failure mode is consistent with a bus fault. I suspect ISTA won't be able to communicate with the FRM, DSC, or SZL which is another dead giveaway given the random fragility of the FRM module. Google Service bulletin SI B01 20 16 for details.

These car's don't have a ton of separate relays controlling various systems that you can replace. (Really no modern car does anymore). They have control modules that control a slew of functions and when a particular module fails, a ton of functions are lost. Typically, the systems are designed with redundancies to keep critical functions operational so you can get to a service center safely.

So these issues can follow a FRM failure or short even though things like my windows and lights work fine?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

So these issues can follow a FRM failure or short even though things like my windows and lights work fine?

Yes. As I mentioned since many different functions are handled by a single particular module, there are plenty of features that may remain functional. This is especially true in bus fault failures, a common FRM failure mode, as the onboard FRM functions (such as windows) remain operational but it can no longer communicate between other modules- such as the DSC or SZL modules in your case. It's unusual for a module like the FRM to completely fry so that nothing works at all.

With yours it seems that at least the PT-CAN (DSC) and K-CAN (SZL) have been paralyzed. Any other features relying on those bus lines (such as wipers) won't be able to communicate either.

BMW has extended the warranty on the FRM so if this is the failure it should be a no cost fix. There are also third party FRM repair services in case it's not under warranty. We diagnose a lot of these FRM failures and send them to the dealer. We usually hear that the dealer replaced the FRM at no cost. I'd suggest you have a qualified BMW shop diagnose this for you, we might be making something of nothing.

[WingZeroX5]

I'm heading your ways down to Miami in a few weeks, not sure where in MD you're at but I can bring my ISTA along with me to help a fellow member out if you still need it by then

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Yes. As I mentioned since many different functions are handled by a single particular module, there are plenty of features that may remain functional. This is especially true in bus fault failures, a common FRM failure mode, as the onboard FRM functions (such as windows) remain operational but it can no longer communicate between other modules- such as the DSC or SZL modules in your case. It's unusual for a module like the FRM to completely fry so that nothing works at all.

With yours it seems that at least the PT-CAN (DSC) and K-CAN (SZL) have been paralyzed. Any other features relying on those bus lines (such as wipers) won't be able to communicate either.

BMW has extended the warranty on the FRM so if this is the failure it should be a no cost fix. There are also third party FRM repair services in case it's not under warranty. We diagnose a lot of these FRM failures and send them to the dealer. We usually hear that the dealer replaced the FRM at no cost. I'd suggest you have a qualified BMW shop diagnose this for you, we might be making something of nothing.

Man, thanks a lot! Yeah, it all makes sense, I just wanted to confirm. Unfortunately, the closest BMW dealer is about an hour north of me. I'll give them a call to make sure they will honor the bulletin.

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

I'm heading your ways down to Miami in a few weeks, not sure where in MD you're at but I can bring my ISTA along with me to help a fellow member out if you still need it by then

Thanks dude! I'm gonna give the dealer a call in Alexandria. Hopefully, they will replace it for me. I'll let you know if it wasn't the issue.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

Man, thanks a lot! Yeah, it all makes sense, I just wanted to confirm. Unfortunately, the closest BMW dealer is about an hour north of me. I'll give them a call to make sure they will honor the bulletin.

Don't get ahead of yourself. Either have a local shop make the diagnosis properly, or take the car to a franchise dealer and have them diagnose it. I wouldn't go to them just yet harping over a service bulletin that may not apply to your situation.

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Don't get ahead of yourself. Either have a local shop make the diagnosis properly, or take the car to a franchise dealer and have them diagnose it. I wouldn't go to them just yet harping over a service bulletin that may not apply to your situation.

The problem is where I moved to. I'm two hours from the dealer and seems like no one does coding or diagnostics in the manner we are discussing. I did call them though to verify the bulletin and they said it doesn't apply to my specific VIN and the service would cost ~$1150 if it is the FRM

Thought?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

The problem is where I moved to. I'm two hours from the dealer and seems like no one does coding or diagnostics in the manner we are discussing. I did call them though to verify the bulletin and they said it doesn't apply to my specific VIN and the service would cost ~$1150 if it is the FRM

Thought?

You need to have it diagnosed. If its a standard failure mode there are companies that can revive your FRM for a very fair price.

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

You need to have it diagnosed. If its a standard failure mode there are companies that can revive your FRM for a very fair price.

Is it possible to have someone do this remotely via the internet if I download tool32 and INPA?

Edit- oh also, I checked battery earlier and it was 11.8 or 11.85v. Is that within variance or too low and possible cause? Thanks

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

Is it possible to have someone do this remotely via the internet if I download tool32 and INPA?

Edit- oh also, I checked battery earlier and it was 11.8 or 11.85v. Is that within variance or too low and possible cause? Thanks

ISTA is a different program. You'd still need a cable to plug into your car. If you bought a cable you can download Rheingold. But you'd still need someone who can look at everything and distill a diagnosis.

11.8v is dead. At rest a good battery should read 12.5-12.9v. I'd have that battery tested.

[rcracin]

When the car is bugging out without any reasonable thing to point to, I always assume dead battery. That's first. If the battery doesn't fix it, you have the FRM issue like Dean said.

If you bought the car in 2014, there's a good chance the battery was original when you bought it. If you haven't changed it since, then a 10 year old battery definitely needs replacing.

[m3jala]

I am not familiar with the internal seals on these cars but I know they started to go on my old e46 and wife's Touareg after 10 years. With my e46 it just ended up resulting in water in the battery compartment, in my wife's Touareg it ended up shorting out the alarm system. It would just leak into the car when there was any heavy rain. If you do any fixing and it turns out to be water seeping in make sure you figure out how to fix the seals (and pls post back findings if so as I suspect others will start to have these issues given the age of the car).

Boat clear outdoor silicone glue is the low budget way to fix it and make your internal seals look like a 3rd grade art and craft project but can be a way to stop any leak you find before you figure the proper fix.

[bmwfst1]

I took my car to the dealer recently and they told me BMW extended the warranty on the frm module and they replaced mine for free. I had to take the car to an indy shop to code it because my car is modified. 2010 e92 m3 113,000 miles

[amrazM]

Do the windows work?

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by amrazM

Do the windows work?

Yes. They do

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

ISTA is a different program. You'd still need a cable to plug into your car. If you bought a cable you can download Rheingold. But you'd still need someone who can look at everything and distill a diagnosis.

11.8v is dead. At rest a good battery should read 12.5-12.9v. I'd have that battery tested.

Ahhh okay that is good to know! Shit, okay, I'll try a battery first. I wonder if I can get one at AutoZone to try and return it if it isn't the issue. Do I have to get the car programmed though? I've heard mixed answers

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

Ahhh okay that is good to know! Shit, okay, I'll try a battery first. I wonder if I can get one at AutoZone to try and return it if it isn't the issue. Do I have to get the car programmed though? I've heard mixed answers

Any replacement battery should be registered with the car via ISTA software. It takes a couple of minutes to do. If you don't, the battery will still work and the alternator will still charge it. No harm will come to the car but since you haven't identified that a new battery has been fitted the charging logic won't be allowed to function as designed and the life of the new battery may be shortened.

[///Monty]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Any replacement battery should be registered with the car via ISTA software. It takes a couple of minutes to do. If you don't, the battery will still work and the alternator will still charge it. No harm will come to the car but since you haven't identified that a new battery has been fitted the charging logic won't be allowed to function as designed and the life of the new battery may be shortened.

Never used the software, but am extremely tech savvy. Is this something I could do myself? I watched some stuff on YouTube and it seemed rather simple.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by ///Monty

Never used the software, but am extremely tech savvy. Is this something I could do myself? I watched some stuff on YouTube and it seemed rather simple.

Yes there are hacked versions called Rheingold. You need a good windows laptop, proper K+DCAN cable, and time to load it properly and learn it. Google will tell you all about it.

[tom @ eas]

Easy way to spot a failed FRM usually will result in no window operation & no response to highbeams pulling back on the stalk. Also angel eyes will both be off.

If wipers are stuck on, likely you have a failed JBBF module (underneath glovebox).