UPDATE - Purchased a 2011 sedan, stick, comp pkg, mileage <45k

[BimmerRules!]

Originally Posted by derbo

I remember your username!! The name is Derek. Nice to meet ya

Here is the last pics of the ZHP car right after a pre-sale detail.


Major mods:
Stoptech ST40s, Ground Control Coilovers w/Swift Springs, M3 Rear LSD/Subframe/Brakes

There was a whole bunch of OE Mods as well so it was a very fun car! I will miss it dearly.


My E90 right now is sitting at the dealer awaiting a trailer. I have a company looking for a driver nearby to drive out my way for the quoted price I was told.



2011 E90 6MT Slicktop Alpine White/Black 51k miles. Tech/Premium, Heated Seats, Fold Down Seats. It's only missing the ZCP package, which like I said earlier, might be a moot point if I'm planning coilovers.

At this point, I want to keep EDC for now so I might pick a set of swift spec R springs and spacers. I'll keep my eye out for M359 wheels but I might just end up with Apex ARC8s/EC7s since they are local to me.

Till then, I'm getting antsy!!

ok Derek -- I am now officially jealous!!

Just kidding bro. Nice to meet you too!

Impressive to read what you did to the zhp and so your list of things-to-do on the M3 is intriguing. Good luck man, and please continue to share. Thanks!

[BimmerRules!]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

While ZCP is a "hot option", in actual function I've found the non-zcp (regular shocks) M3 to be superb. I was actually specifically hunting for a non-zcp back in 2012 since the 19" autocross (stock class) tire selection didn't exist then; then the SCCA changed the rules to allow +/- 1" in diameter specifically for this reason, and the ZCP became desirable for it's additional 1/2" wheel widths and everyone uses 18" aftermarket wheels now on ZCP cars.

Anyway, if you're going to put decent shocks on the car anyway and/or modify the suspension, ZCP isn't worth fretting over imo.

My most important concern was finding a slicktop since I can't fit in an E90 with a sunroof and helmet on (in addition to actually never using a sunroof anyway plus the bonus of not having 30+ lbs of excess weight sitting at the highest point on the car).

I've never understood why BMW chose heavy cast wheels for the ZCP package either since the 220M are forged, strong and light, comparatively. I have a set of ARC8 10" wheels that resemble the ZCP but are wider and lighter -- use them for time trial type events.

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

For a track car I will take your expert opinion that ZCP alone is not the best set up. For a street car, it looks better 10mm lower, I know, I have seen it next to a non lowered car. ZCP wheels are constantly voted best looking wheels right here on Bimmerpost. And I know they look better as I have ZCP wheels and the 220's on another car. All my friends say they look better also. Sellers who have ZCP want a premium for it. Buyers are willing to pay the premium. It's no different than 6MT and DCT. CF roof vs sunroof. Fox Red Vs Gray. Premium stereo vs HiFi. Personally I'm not buying an E90 or E92 without it. But I understand why others would not buy it with it.

The wealth of information you gents readily share is just astounding.

Thank you for making dumb guys like me get some much of details and feedback that will eventually help us down the lane. Greatly appreciate it.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I've never understood why BMW chose heavy cast wheels for the ZCP package either since the 220M are forged, strong and light, comparatively.

I've seen wheel weights about the same actually between the 18"s, 19"s and ZCPs. But yes, a little strange that they downgraded to cast for the ZCPs, would've been sweet if they were a bit lighter.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

I've seen wheel weights about the same actually between the 18"s, 19"s and ZCPs. But yes, a little strange that they downgraded to cast for the ZCPs, would've been sweet if they were a bit lighter.

BMW's own specified weights for the wheels in pounds are as follows:

........ front rear
220M 22.5 24.9
359M 24.5 27.1

219M 25.8 27.8

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

BMW's own specified weights for the wheels in pounds are as follows:

........ front rear
220M 22.5 24.9
359M 24.5 27.1

219M 25.8 27.8

I stand corrected. That is not particularly light So the 18s are actually heaviest?

Some company should make forged 359M reps.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

I stand corrected. That is not particularly light So the 18s are actually heaviest?

Apparently. For what it's worth, I have a set of front, 8.5", 219Ms for my E91, and I weighed one without TPMS -- just a clean wheel. It weighed 24.6 lbs or 1.2 less than BMW's quoted weight. When I get new tires for the 220Ms, I'm going to weigh a front and a rear wheel to see what's up with those numbers.

I have a set of ARC8s in 10x18, and they weigh 19.9 lbs which you can really tell when changing them.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Apparently. For what it's worth, I have a set of front, 8.5", 219Ms for my E91, and I weighed one without TPMS -- just a clean wheel. It weighed 24.6 lbs or 1.2 less than BMW's quoted weight. When I get new tires for the 220Ms, I'm going to weigh a front and a rear wheel to see what's up with those numbers.

I have a set of ARC8s in 10x18, and they weigh 19.9 lbs which you can really tell when changing them.

I'm thinking of getting ARC8s or EC7 in 18x10 et25 squared.

[BimmerRules!]

Originally Posted by derbo

I'm thinking of getting ARC8s or EC7 in 18x10 et25 squared.

Question to clarify my ignorance - I know you mentioned that zcp was moot as you were planning to do coilovers (and wheels?): but don't zcp packages have slightly more features and hence in demand?

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by BimmerRules!

Question to clarify my ignorance - I know you mentioned that zcp was moot as you were planning to do coilovers (and wheels?): but don't zcp packages have slightly more features and hence in demand?

Springs, wheels, different EDC programming.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Springs, wheels, different EDC programming.

And supposedly loosened up DSC, although that is negated by coding Euro MDM.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

And supposedly loosened up DSC, although that is negated by coding Euro MDM.

Pretty sure the supposed DSC changes have been debunked here on the forum.

[BOOF-M3]

It's all in the name "Competition Package &amp;amp; ZCP". I'll take two please. It is considered a performance update and It makes complete sense as the car was in the 3rd year of production, they couldn't just sit on their laurels. It's definitely worth more on trade in than non ZCP. If your planning on tracking the car and thereby upgrading the suspension and changing out the wheels it may or may not be beneficial to purchase a ZCP car. Personally I still would. It can always be changed back and you can sell the aftermarket stuff. 99% of drivers never touch a track, therefore ZCP IS the route to go. This has been argued since late 2010 when it was introduced for the 2011 models. Below is the interview with the man who developed the package.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385586

[CSBM5]

Yeah, it really depends on what your objectives are for a car. If you want something like a 2011 slicktop 6MT E90 with low mileage, garage kept, etc, and you actually find it w/o ZCP, buy it. There are so few of them imported finding one like that now is next to impossible. As for performance reasons, ZCP is nothing worth spending extra money on (personal opinion, just as the opposite is also) since the lowered springs have the same rate as the stock ones, and all you get at that point is 1/2" wider and heavier wheels and different tuning of the EDC in its stiffest more. The E9x M3 is already short on bump travel stock as Steve Dinan has shown in a white paper ages ago (one reason Dinan developed a lowering solution with about 1/2" extra bump travel; using their rear shock mounts are useful for many potential suspension setups).

If you are really interested in better handling, buying a set of lightweight/strong Apex 10"/10.5" (or 11" rear) wheels and some TCK DA coilovers will not only ride better than the stock or ZCP car but be a good bit more responsive, have higher limits, better ultimate grip. Just the Apex wheels alone will save close to 5lbs per corner of unsprung weight not to mention the reduced rotational inertia.

So anyway, it all comes down to your objectives/plans for your car. If you're trying to find a car you can flip to EAG in a year and do no mods on, only looking for a ZCP option car is the way to go. On the other hand, if you hunt in the "other market" (non-ZCP), you'll likely find a lot better deal available (speaking only about 2011 E90 here).

[derbo]

Originally Posted by BimmerRules!

Question to clarify my ignorance - I know you mentioned that zcp was moot as you were planning to do coilovers (and wheels?): but don't zcp packages have slightly more features and hence in demand?

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Springs, wheels, different EDC programming.

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

And supposedly loosened up DSC, although that is negated by coding Euro MDM.

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Pretty sure the supposed DSC changes have been debunked here on the forum.

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Yeah, it really depends on what your objectives are for a car. If you want something like a 2011 slicktop 6MT E90 with low mileage, garage kept, etc, and you actually find it w/o ZCP, buy it. There are so few of them imported finding one like that now is next to impossible. As for performance reasons, ZCP is nothing worth spending extra money on (personal opinion, just as the opposite is also) since the lowered springs have the same rate as the stock ones, and all you get at that point is 1/2" wider and heavier wheels and different tuning of the EDC in its stiffest more. The E9x M3 is already short on bump travel stock as Steve Dinan has shown in a white paper ages ago (one reason Dinan developed a lowering solution with about 1/2" extra bump travel; using their rear shock mounts are useful for many potential suspension setups).

If you are really interested in better handling, buying a set of lightweight/strong Apex 10"/10.5" (or 11" rear) wheels and some TCK DA coilovers will not only ride better than the stock or ZCP car but be a good bit more responsive, have higher limits, better ultimate grip. Just the Apex wheels alone will save close to 5lbs per corner of unsprung weight not to mention the reduced rotational inertia.

So anyway, it all comes down to your objectives/plans for your car. If you're trying to find a car you can flip to EAG in a year and do no mods on, only looking for a ZCP option car is the way to go. On the other hand, if you hunt in the "other market" (non-ZCP), you'll likely find a lot better deal available (speaking only about 2011 E90 here).

I think I fall into the latter category.

My reasons why ZCP doesn't make a difference to me:

• Lowered 10mm springs. 100% going to be swapping out the suspension, just not sure what yet. Leaning on B16 Damptronic or MCS 2WNR setup.
• Variable dampening in Sport EDC mode See below.
• Changes in DSC Both of these maybe possibly coded in via NCSexpert tools before I swap out the suspension.
• Style 359 Rims. Absolutely beautiful rims but also cast and fairly heavy. I think 18x10 Apex wheels will suit me better in terms of practicality of 18" tires as well as having a squared wheel setup.

The slicktop was more alluring than ZCP so I jumped on it.

[BOOF-M3]

I am finally convinced that although wearing the badge of 2011 BMW E90 6MT with Competition Package is the ultimate E9X set up that it may be time to take things into your own hands Rajan. EAG is sucking these cars up like vultures. Better to pay $36,000 for a lower mileage non ZCP car and to get everything else that you want in it. If your located up north use the OEM wheels for snow tires or just sell the wheels outright. Converting the car to look and feel like ZCP or better is way cheaper than overpaying for an EAG car. From speaking to potential buyers of these cars including OP, EAG Is actually paying over asking price on the private sales and then marking them up $5k to $10k. It is quite evident from for sale ads that non ZCP E90's sell at a more typical pace. One problem with conversions that I have been noticing more and more lately is that owners are unaware that their car is not actually a ZCP car as previous owner marketed it to them as if it was. And then when it's time to move onto a newer car these guys are selling their cars and putting Competition Package in the heading. When it gets noticed after a Vin check the seller is in shock. The other side of the coin is that they knew that it's not a ZCP car but are trying to get away with it. I saw this behavior constantly when I was in search of an X5. But that was typically just false advertisement, certainly not innocent mistakes.
This has become a really good thread in my opinion with differing opinions but all with the same goal of what is the best, cheapest and most efficient way to purchase the car OP is looking to buy.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I am finally convinced that although wearing the badge of 2011 BMW E90 6MT with Competition Package is the ultimate E9X set up that it may be time to take things into your own hands Rajan. EAG is sucking these cars up like vultures. Better to pay $36,000 for a lower mileage non ZCP car and to get everything else that you want in it. If your located up north use the OEM wheels for snow tires or just sell the wheels outright. Converting the car to look and feel like ZCP or better is way cheaper than overpaying for an EAG car. From speaking to potential buyers of these cars including OP, EAG Is actually paying over asking price on the private sales and then marking them up $5k to $10k. It is quite evident from for sale ads that non ZCP E90's sell at a more typical pace. One problem with conversions that I have been noticing more and more lately is that owners are unaware that their car is not actually a ZCP car as previous owner marketed it to them as if it was. And then when it's time to move onto a newer car these guys are selling their cars and putting Competition Package in the heading. When it gets noticed after a Vin check the seller is in shock. The other side of the coin is that they knew that it's not a ZCP car but are trying to get away with it. I saw this behavior constantly when I was in search of an X5. But that was typically just false advertisement, certainly not innocent mistakes.
This has become a really good thread in my opinion with differing opinions but all with the same goal of what is the best, cheapest and most efficient way to purchase the car OP is looking to buy.

Totally agree with you.

EAG has a 33k 2011 SpaceGray/Black ZCP Slicktop with all the other options going for $47k with a sale pending now. It is the exact car I wanted but at 10k over, this is absurd...

OP, you will find your car. Just keep hunting everyday and set alerts on car buying sites like cars.com/autotrader with just sedan m3 as the filter.

[Sprchrd]

I just skimmed through here but I may be considering selling my car.

09 with 22k miles, garaged, covered
e90 sedan 6mt with moonroof
Silverstone
Extended leather, premium and tech packages
19" OEM M wheels
Adjustable seat width/lumbar
Premium sound

Dm if interested

[BimmerRules!]

Originally Posted by derbo

Totally agree with you.

EAG has a 33k 2011 SpaceGray/Black ZCP Slicktop with all the other options going for $47k with a sale pending now. It is the exact car I wanted but at 10k over, this is absurd...

OP, you will find your car. Just keep hunting everyday and set alerts on car buying sites like cars.com/autotrader with just sedan m3 as the filter.

I know!

EAG emailed me prior to listing that 33k spacegray/black/zcp if I am interested and I declined after expressing the same sentiment you mentioned - overpriced.

I am quite intrigued by the insights into the zcp functionality thanks to the wisdom of the many who have posted. Gotta read the link Mark posted.

Has your car arrived???

[derbo]

Originally Posted by BimmerRules!

I know!

EAG emailed me prior to listing that 33k spacegray/black/zcp if I am interested and I declined after expressing the same sentiment you mentioned - overpriced.

I am quite intrigued by the insights into the zcp functionality thanks to the wisdom of the many who have posted. Gotta read the link Mark posted.

Has your car arrived???

Car is getting picked up tomorrow finally! Finding an enclosed trailer was a pain in the butt.


I'm currently looking into if just coding in the vehicle order 7MA will adjust the EDC module to the ZCP settings. When I get my car, I can take a dump of the EDC module and confirm that dx09030 will change it to ZCP EDC settings.

[BimmerRules!]

Originally Posted by derbo

Car is getting picked up tomorrow finally! Finding an enclosed trailer was a pain in the butt.


I'm currently looking into if just coding in the vehicle order 7MA will adjust the EDC module to the ZCP settings. When I get my car, I can take a dump of the EDC module and confirm that dx09030 will change it to ZCP EDC settings.

Awesome man!! you are going to be delirious for the next few weeks I guess.

Please keep us posted on the coding. Good luck bro!!

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by derbo

Car is getting picked up tomorrow finally! Finding an enclosed trailer was a pain in the butt.


I'm currently looking into if just coding in the vehicle order 7MA will adjust the EDC module to the ZCP settings. When I get my car, I can take a dump of the EDC module and confirm that dx09030 will change it to ZCP EDC settings.

Yes the coding will be key. I know it can be done as I have read about it. Would be nice if another member sees this and chimes in. It will open up a ton of cars that would not have been on OP's list for non ZCP. Isn't it exciting Rajan!

[derbo]

Originally Posted by BimmerRules!

Awesome man!! you are going to be delirious for the next few weeks I guess.

Please keep us posted on the coding. Good luck bro!!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Yes the coding will be key. I know it can be done as I have read about it. Would be nice if another member sees this and chimes in. It will open up a ton of cars that would not have been on OP's list for to non ZCP. Isn't it exciting Rajan!

It is another reason why I opt to ignore ZCP option if every other checkbox on my wants is checked off. non-ZCP definitely opens up the price range too.

There are a few items I have left unanswered for the coding. There are a few users that have this knowledge but not sharing because usually they offer paid services to get this done.r2

1. Do all EDC capable M3s have it or is it just exclusively the 2011 models?
2. 7MA is the official option code for "ZCP" which has default values for the EDC/DSC. I presume you just add the option code 7MA and code the CAS/FRM/EDC/DSC and it will take.
3. If a ZCP could dump their EDC file, I could check and see all the differences between my non-ZCP to see how it looks. Now to find one willing to share..

The closest thread I've found here is this but it only shows a few parameters of the EDC line.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=7MA+coding

Another that has Mike Benvo saying he can do it but doesn't share how:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1168690